Doug Schmell cashing in his vaulted massive collecion. Poll: Is this the top?

[namisgr]

The one and only conversation I ever I ever had with Doug, I came away with the impression all he collected were labels. Could be wrong, as I also came away with the impression he wasn't a bad guy and that turned out not to be the case.

 

Doug was collecting ultra high grade books long before CGC came into existence, as was Tom Brulato.

[Foolkiller]

I'm really reticent to comment on this thread for a variety of reasons however, here are some observations any way:

 

1) I am not surprised nor do I think it is inappropriate that some people won't bid on Doug's books because of his history.

 

2) Doug was disbarred. I believe in second chances as well, and those actions cost him his law license. However, I think what's really offensive to many folks is that Doug is now benefiting from that illegal conduct by the fruits of selling the collection that was partially assembled by "borrowing" from his clients. For those of you who don't know the situation, the whole reason he got caught was because regardless of his intent to pay it back, he wasn't able to as he was supposed to. That's theft. With that said, I'm quite certain Doug understands the implications and wrongness of his actions. Doesn't mean people still are going to want to bid on the items.

 

3) Doug definitely was a passionate collector who was not a number chaser. He always had to have the best, and the reason he assembled this collection was because he wanted the best looking collection. When CGC came into existence, the best became symbolized by numbers, and hence the pressing. Plus, I'm sure he wanted to increase the value of his collection and did so by pressing the living hell out of the books to say he had "the best".

 

4) I'm not sure Doug will really stay with Pedigree for the long haul, especially after he cashes in. He says he will now, and who knows, maybe he will. But without the pressure of constantly shelling out money for his bigger and better books, he will be able to utilize that money for his lifestyle, which has a very high burn rate. This will give him some significant comfort level and he can have a "collection" through his "inventory" and consignment business. No more holding onto certain books for himself.

 

5) Doug does do a lot of dumb things when it comes to common etiquette with dealers. No Mitch, I do think it's a big deal when someone tries to do business right in your own booth. Go by every major dealer, even guys we love like Dale Roberts, or Rick Whitelock etc., and see how'd they'd react when you try to sell your own competing book to a customer who came to their booth. Nobody is going to be happy and it's very rude. I'm not going to get into criticizing you as a person as I think that's gotten totally out of hand here on the boards. But I do think you are dead wrong on this particular opinion and disagree that someone just ought to "relax". This is someone's livelihood. I'm sure you wouldn't love if I tried picking up one of your DUI clients right in front of you. I think it's a similar principle here.

 

6) People seem to like Doug when they meet him. That's because he's an affable guy. They don't like Tom because he can be brusque if you don't know him. Tom though, Ewert aside, doesn't have nearly the kind of problematic background that Doug does. In the end, perception is often times what fuels people's insight about us, and the issues with Doug are not particularly well known in the general public.

 

7) Doug's books are going to do very well -- because most people either don't know or don't care about anything to do with his background. As Bob Storms always says, if Satan had the book you wanted at a cheap price you'd buy it. For the overwhelming majority of comic book buyers, this is true.

[Bluetooth-migration]

 

 

 

 

 

[sterlingcomics]

That's my understanding as well--he was holding money for clients in escrow, but spent the money himself and replaced it later. I presume he got caught by telling a client he hadn't gotten money from the source of a settlement, his client didn't believe him, and pressed the matter to find that Schmell did get the money but was holding it illegally. So it wasn't entirely theft, but illegal "borrowing"...

 

That just sounds like rationalizing theft. Taking is taking. Not commenting on Doug specifically, just on what you just said.

[lou_fine]

 

Just curious Steve...if a buyer put forth to HA "I'll put $10M in an escrow account for the purposes of bidding...and for each book HA places the next and final hammer price for each book to win the book at the end of each auction until the $10M is expended"...would that be an acceptable arrangement?

 

 

Not sure. Never happend before, at least that I know of.

 

I think that if a person gives us the money in escrow, they then must still place their highest bid on each item they want. We can't decide what they should pay for a certain piece. When/if the money runs out, their bidding stops.

 

Of course, with a $10M senerio, they would probably not run out of money in a comic and comic art auction as HA has a record auction of $8.7M and other comic auction houses, much, much less.

 

Wish I had that kind of scratch to spend or even 100th of it

 

 

Steve;

 

My response is that if the first book in the auction hits the $10M figure right off the bat, then it finally puts to bed the age old debate that you guys might be running up the prices on your bidders.

 

BTW: I am certainly in the same boat as you with your last comment there.

[Foolkiller]

That's my understanding as well--he was holding money for clients in escrow, but spent the money himself and replaced it later. I presume he got caught by telling a client he hadn't gotten money from the source of a settlement, his client didn't believe him, and pressed the matter to find that Schmell did get the money but was holding it illegally. So it wasn't entirely theft, but illegal "borrowing"...

 

That just sounds like rationalizing theft. Taking is taking. Not commenting on Doug specifically, just on what you just said.

 

Just FYI, it wasn't one client. It was a multitude.

[sterlingcomics]

DR!

How ya doing?

 

Arex! How ya doin'?

[sterlingcomics]

That's my understanding as well--he was holding money for clients in escrow, but spent the money himself and replaced it later. I presume he got caught by telling a client he hadn't gotten money from the source of a settlement, his client didn't believe him, and pressed the matter to find that Schmell did get the money but was holding it illegally. So it wasn't entirely theft, but illegal "borrowing"...

 

That just sounds like rationalizing theft. Taking is taking. Not commenting on Doug specifically, just on what you just said.

 

Just FYI, it wasn't one client. It was a multitude.

 

Which would tend to amplify one's thoughts on the matter.

[Bluetooth-migration]

That's my understanding as well--he was holding money for clients in escrow, but spent the money himself and replaced it later. I presume he got caught by telling a client he hadn't gotten money from the source of a settlement, his client didn't believe him, and pressed the matter to find that Schmell did get the money but was holding it illegally. So it wasn't entirely theft, but illegal "borrowing"...

 

That just sounds like rationalizing theft. Taking is taking. Not commenting on Doug specifically, just on what you just said.

 

Just FYI, it wasn't one client. It was a multitude.

 

 

[sterlingcomics]

Being attorney you are always held to a higher standard...

 

Then you must be the exception to the rule. Is the Bar Exam all multiple choice?

In most states, a big chunk of the Bar Exam is in fact multiple choice. I don`t know if NJ ever changed its rules, but back in my day it was ALL multiple choice and was considered a bit of a joke.

 

Ahhh. so that explains it.

[trmoore54]

I'm really reticent to comment on this thread for a variety of reasons however, here are some observations any way:

 

1) I am not surprised nor do I think it is inappropriate that some people won't bid on Doug's books because of his history.

 

2) Doug was disbarred. I believe in second chances as well, and those actions cost him his law license. However, I think what's really offensive to many folks is that Doug is now benefiting from that illegal conduct by the fruits of selling the collection that was partially assembled by "borrowing" from his clients. For those of you who don't know the situation, the whole reason he got caught was because regardless of his intent to pay it back, he wasn't able to as he was supposed to. That's theft. With that said, I'm quite certain Doug understands the implications and wrongness of his actions. Doesn't mean people still are going to want to bid on the items.

 

3) Doug definitely was a passionate collector who was not a number chaser. He always had to have the best, and the reason he assembled this collection was because he wanted the best looking collection. When CGC came into existence, the best became symbolized by numbers, and hence the pressing. Plus, I'm sure he wanted to increase the value of his collection and did so by pressing the living hell out of the books to say he had "the best".

 

4) I'm not sure Doug will really stay with Pedigree for the long haul, especially after he cashes in. He says he will now, and who knows, maybe he will. But without the pressure of constantly shelling out money for his bigger and better books, he will be able to utilize that money for his lifestyle, which has a very high burn rate. This will give him some significant comfort level and he can have a "collection" through his "inventory" and consignment business. No more holding onto certain books for himself.

 

5) Doug does do a lot of dumb things when it comes to common etiquette with dealers. No Mitch, I do think it's a big deal when someone tries to do business right in your own booth. Go by every major dealer, even guys we love like Dale Roberts, or Rick Whitelock etc., and see how'd they'd react when you try to sell your own competing book to a customer who came to their booth. Nobody is going to be happy and it's very rude. I'm not going to get into criticizing you as a person as I think that's gotten totally out of hand here on the boards. But I do think you are dead wrong on this particular opinion and disagree that someone just ought to "relax". This is someone's livelihood. I'm sure you wouldn't love if I tried picking up one of your DUI clients right in front of you. I think it's a similar principle here.

 

6) People seem to like Doug when they meet him. That's because he's an affable guy. They don't like Tom because he can be brusque if you don't know him. Tom though, Ewert aside, doesn't have nearly the kind of problematic background that Doug does. In the end, perception is often times what fuels people's insight about us, and the issues with Doug are not particularly well known in the general public.

 

7) Doug's books are going to do very well -- because most people either don't know or don't care about anything to do with his background. As Bob Storms always says, if Satan had the book you wanted at a cheap price you'd buy it. For the overwhelming majority of comic book buyers, this is true.

 

Another well-thought-out posting...

 

For those of us in the LA area and especially if you are a life-long Dodger fan this story is akin to the same sentiments...what with the Frank McCourt deal...

 

For those of you in need of a quick briefing, Frankie "purchased" the Dodgers with no money out of pocket...ran the club into the ground...peeled off millions of dollars for his personal investments and lifestyle...then sold the Dodgers and cleared a billion-plus...yes, a billion-plus!

 

A lot of people given the opportunity to invest in the Dodgers would not have done so if they thought the guy was going to profit so robustly...or profit at all...

 

I'm not in a position to bid on any of the nose-bleed books, though I certainly would love to own many of them...given the opportunity...I'd wait to purchase them on the rebound or do without...

[lou_fine]

Wouldn't high grade Marvels be fish in a barrel if you had Cameron or DiCaprio's resources?

 

 

 

DiCaprio is definitely a collector. There is rumour that he likes Marvels and Timelys. I believe he purchased a highest graded Marvel Comics #1 years ago from Comiclink (filter81's old copy) but I don't know how accurate that is. I think a boardie also recounted how he bought a Cap #1 from a comic store.

 

More well known is that he frequents Comic Con, specifically the Silver and Gold comics pavilion.

and he smells like an astray and his breath stinks...but he did buy a comic from me 2 years ago, I believe ...whoop whoop

 

Yeah, Lou thinks he's cute but she hates the fact that he smokes and doesn't keep in shape (little pot belly on him).

 

I have an advantage. So far.

 

at first, I don't think bridget even recognized him...but no lie, the smell was awful! (mainly smoke/ashtray)... if I recall, a HG captain america left our booth though

 

Rick;

 

Can you tell us which version of Cap this was?

 

Was this the GA version , the SA version (thumbs u , the BA version :: , the CA version , or was it the MA version of Cap?

go for the gold baby!

 

Well, I guess going for the Gold is better than marching with the Moderns.

 

Just another question here for dealers such as Rick or some of the others who sell to celebs like DiCaprio, Cage, Munny, Sheen, etc. Whenever we see collections like Schmell's up for auction, one of the immediate responses is that one of these big money celebls will step in to buy the books.

 

Based upon your previous sales to these guys, are they the type that really pays any attention to this so-called "CGC highest graded copy" that we seem to focus on so much here, or are they just happy to get a nice looking presentable copy of the comic book itself.

 

Personally, I don't believe these guys are as anal or label conscious as most of the board members here, because comics are really a much smaller part in their overall scheme of things as compared to us.

[Davenport]

3) Doug definitely was a passionate collector who was not a number chaser. He always had to have the best, and the reason he assembled this collection was because he wanted the best looking collection. When CGC came into existence, the best became symbolized by numbers, and hence the pressing. Plus, I'm sure he wanted to increase the value of his collection and did so by pressing the living hell out of the books to say he had "the best".

 

7) Doug's books are going to do very well -- because most people either don't know or don't care about anything to do with his background. As Bob Storms always says, if Satan had the book you wanted at a cheap price you'd buy it. For the overwhelming majority of comic book buyers, this is true.

I keep thinking Dupcak/Hammer's worst 'roid induced fever-dream conspiracy-rant couldn't concoct such an amazing scenario.

 

Take a step back and just think about the Players involved for a moment... The owner of the House, the Broker for the House, and the Player...basically you have the Importer/Investor of the System, the Developer/Promoter of the System, and the ultimate Player of the System, all interacting to produce a Grand Finale winning play.

 

And perhaps some other Whale will appear and again game the System in the manor it was intended, but it will all be anti-climactic. We'll know how the story ends, from the importing and promotion of a System, the slow reveal of game-play caveats, to a grand cash-out event.

 

It's taken what, a decade to set the stage?

 

[VintageComics]

It's taken what, a decade to set the stage?

 

Just out of curiosity, where do you stand on the concept of fiat money?

 

[Davenport]

It's taken what, a decade to set the stage?

 

Just out of curiosity, where do you stand on the concept of fiat money?

 

Just a basic grasp of the concept, with no particular stance. Why do you ask?

 

Are you hinting grade-labels were developed as a type of 'fiat currency', used within the comic collecting community? Sorry, just not sure where you're going with it in this context.

[namisgr]

Back to the books, if we may:

 

[Kevin76]

People are going to buy these books regardless of who the previous owner is...They simply cannot help themselves...This why crack users try to buy crack knowing they are buying from an undercover cop, but they do it anyway.

[Mark 1]

2) Doug was disbarred. I believe in second chances as well, and those actions cost him his law license. However, I think what's really offensive to many folks is that Doug is now benefiting from that illegal conduct by the fruits of selling the collection that was partially assembled by "borrowing" from his clients. For those of you who don't know the situation, the whole reason he got caught was because regardless of his intent to pay it back, he wasn't able to as he was supposed to. That's theft. With that said, I'm quite certain Doug understands the implications and wrongness of his actions. Doesn't mean people still are going to want to bid on the items.

 

 

Thanks for the post Foolkiller. You most certainly know more about why Doug was disbarred than I. Was he ever able to pay the clients back? I don't know and that's a big factor to me in how I feel about this auction and what happens to the money when he finally cashes out.

 

Thanks

[ComicConnoisseur]

3) Doug definitely was a passionate collector who was not a number chaser. He always had to have the best, and the reason he assembled this collection was because he wanted the best looking collection. When CGC came into existence, the best became symbolized by numbers, and hence the pressing. Plus, I'm sure he wanted to increase the value of his collection and did so by pressing the living hell out of the books to say he had "the best".

 

7) Doug's books are going to do very well -- because most people either don't know or don't care about anything to do with his background. As Bob Storms always says, if Satan had the book you wanted at a cheap price you'd buy it. For the overwhelming majority of comic book buyers, this is true.

I keep thinking Dupcak/Hammer's worst 'roid induced fever-dream conspiracy-rant couldn't concoct such an amazing scenario.

 

Take a step back and just think about the Players involved for a moment... The owner of the House, the Broker for the House, and the Player...basically you have the Importer/Investor of the System, the Developer/Promoter of the System, and the ultimate Player of the System, all interacting to produce a Grand Finale winning play.

 

And perhaps some other Whale will appear and again game the System in the manor it was intended, but it will all be anti-climactic. We'll know how the story ends, from the importing and promotion of a System, the slow reveal of game-play caveats, to a grand cash-out event.

 

It's taken what, a decade to set the stage?

Good post.

 

[BEAUMONTS]

Back to the books, if we may:

 

(thumbs u

I concur