Doug Schmell cashing in his vaulted massive collecion. Poll: Is this the top?

[Mmehdy]

For me, a true collector by necessity has to be both a true lover of comic art and wear an investment hat to avoid major losses in event he or she is forced to sell the collection due to an emergancy. You are not there just to make money, like a dealer who does not collect.

 

Some collectors can wear both hats and others cannot.

[buttock]

Will people please stop asking Mitch questions?

[lou_fine]

A true collector realizes this and understands this is once in a lifetime opportunity to upgrade to the best of the best period. I am really considering going after FF1 because of the new movie in development, white cover, and how af 15 has over shadowed it.

 

Mitch;

 

Nice to hear that you are seriously considering going after one of the biggest SA books of all time! (thumbs u

 

One word of advice here, if you are seriously thinking of bidding on the book, don't express your intentions here and most of all, don't reveal your max price to everybody here on the boards.

 

Knowing the strong affectionate and loving feelings that so many of the board members here have for you, you will probably be punished bid to the death using this strategy.

[Mmehdy]

OK

[TrippyMcSkippy-migration]

Mitch whats the capitol of Detroit?

[troydivision1]

A few things I have thought while reading this thread:

Doug better have paid those people back their funds with interest before capitalizing on these sales.

Has he ever answered this question?

I love looking at high-res scans of high grade books.

The current 'modern' flipper (like myself) will not be interested in these because these books will not reach the 400-900% profit often realized in flipping moderns (often before CGC is involved).

[drbanner]

Know in advance you are gonna pay, deal with it and keep clicking till you win.

 

If you are a true collector these books are not gonna come back on the market for a long long time.

 

 

Mitch;

 

What is your definition of a true collector and do you really believe that it is going to be these so-called true collectors who are going to MANNUP to buy these books from Doug.

 

My personal feeling is that the true collectors are not even going to bother bidding for these books becasue they most likely already have their Marvel collections intact by now and at a significantly lower price point. They will certainly watch with interest and express their ooh's & aah's and cheer them on, but to actually bid on any of them. Absolutely no way as they probably finished off their runs decades ago and certainly not anal enough to pay 6 figures for only slight upgrades in books that have been manipulated, remanipulated and resubmitted countless times.

 

I strongly doubt that long-time collectors such as Bangzoom, Berk, Geppi, Anderson,etc. will have any interest at all in these books considering their expected price levels. Even long-time dealer collectors such as Bedrock and Fishler will not be bidding on these books. All of these guys probably already have multiple sets of these Marvel runs. I am not even sure if somebody like Brulato will be a major player for these books as he also brought the majority of his runs much earlier in the game. I am sure that he will be interested in some of them, but probably not on a widespread scale.

 

I really see these books going to a new type of investor similar to Parrino and Keller when they came into the market like a flash of lightning for a short while, spent a ton of money picking up books, and then ended up losing a significant portion of their investment. Another one was Kramer back in the mid 90's, although he was at least smart enough to hold onto his books long enough to make some good coin on his subsequent sales.

 

Mitch, since you must see yourself as a true collector and this is a once in a lifetime opportunity to get the best of the best when it comes to SA Marvels, I assume that you are going to be at the front of the trough when it comes to bidding on these books from Doug's personal collection.

 

To answer you directly I first think that the prices are gonna go up after the sale. I put out the billy white collection as an example. After the sale of action 1 for a million, we all knew it would shake out more GA and after that some of the last original owner collections left. The result of the 1st action #1 sale was exactly that, 2 copies sold for 1.5 and over 2 million and one 8.0 or regrade 8.5 for over a million dollars by a known dealer, then Billy white appeared and 3.5 million dollars later records prices abound.

 

The marvel sale is gonna have the same effect....BUT even greater.

 

The publicity on this sale is going to be unlike anything we have ever seen period.

As a result, collections will be discovered and sold in the next 18 months, and just like the action #1 8.5, some major collectors are gonna go on the block. The base price used will be this sale and prices are gonna rock, the cream and top books are just hitting stride. By the end of the next two years 8 out the top 20 books will be Marvel #1's. In 5 years, 7 out of the top 10 will be Marvel 1's.

 

A true collector realizes this and understands this is once in a lifetime opportunity to upgrade to the best of the best period and before the price wave hits. I am really considering going after FF1 because of the new movie in development, white cover, and how af 15 has over shadowed it.

 

There it is lou...the future before you, the new supply put into the market combined with the new generation of collectors spell an upward trend big time BUT for quality cgc top graded marvel material.

 

 

Lou: The only true collectors completed their runs back in the 1970's, decades before the CGC sheep and their fancy-shmancy internet!

 

Mitch: MANNUP you big wuss, this is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, just like the one I was telling you about last month!

 

[Comicopolis]

For me, a true collector by necessity has to be both a true lover of comic art and wear an investment hat to avoid major losses in event he or she is forced to sell the collection due to an emergancy. You are not there just to make money, like a dealer who does not collect.

 

Some collectors can wear both hats and others cannot.

 

Surely a 'true collector' is somebody who collects for the love of the comics and doesn't see them as investments.

 

I think you are talking about a 'true investor', who could very easily substitute the comics with shares, or cars, or antiques, etc, etc.

[Davenport]

Doug's just a collector (an overzealous one who's made some bad decisions admittedly) who's selling his collection. To imply that Doug had a "master plan" (or anyone else involved in either grading or selling of comics) in all of this is most likely incorrect and put's a nefarious implication on everything going on.

When has Dav put anything other than a "nefarious implication" on anything to do with CGC?

 

There are many forum members that simply cannot help but cast a dark shadow over CGC/Heritage/Matt Nelson/The Boogeyman when given the chance, and of course you know who they are. Oh look, several of them are in this very thread!

 

They're like the anti-Mmehdy/drdonaldblake, the ying and yang of the forums, giving balance between the hyperbole and vitriol, pushing the limits of what one would reasonably expect our gracious hosts to allow, and apparently pushing some over the edge (re: recent pulled posts). Another day in the life in CG...

Nefarious implications? Casting dark shadows? C'mon.

 

My point of view isn't vitriolic, but it's not fantasyland either. Encapsulated comics are what they are. And YES, it's a system.

 

And if ya'll think a collection of Schmell's caliber comes together without some type of clear vision, or plan, carefully orchestrated to take advantage of caveats the system offers, then I don't know what to say. I guess he just stumbled across books in the wild, submitted 'em, and before he knew it, wow, impressive runs were sittin' there in his longboxes. Lucky guy with a good eye havin' fun.

 

Anyway, I don't see how anybody could've paid even casual attention over the past decade and not understand a) there's a System, b) some people play it, and c) for huge windfalls.

 

Heck, go read Halperin's own words in an article somewhere. He's never been shy about The Game, coins or comics. So I can't understand the mental gymnastics it must take to keep rose-colored glasses contantly in place. Or the level of denial required to maintain it's just some fans with their Overstreet lucking into a few bucks along the way.

 

 

[ciorac]

Angelo

 

Roy

 

Bill FU

 

DrBanner

 

What the heck did I do?

[G.A.tor]

Angelo

 

Roy

 

Bill FU

 

DrBanner

 

What the heck did I do?

Not you.

[comicparadox]

There's some quality attribution!

Heck, go read Halperin's own words in an article somewhere.

[Ogami]

Angelo

 

Roy

 

Bill FU

 

DrBanner

 

What the heck did I do?

Not you.

 

Update:

 

Ciorac (thumbs u

 

Gator (thumbs u

[ChannelZero-migration]

They're like the anti-Mmehdy/drdonaldblake, the yin-yang of the forums...

 

Exactly. You two say something stupid, the other guys say something smart, and it all balances out. Glad you're objective enough to see your own faults (thumbs u

[Bluetooth-migration]

For me, a true collector by necessity has to be both a true lover of comic art and wear an investment hat to avoid major losses in event he or she is forced to sell the collection due to an emergancy. You are not there just to make money, like a dealer who does not collect.

 

Some collectors can wear both hats and others cannot.

 

Surely a 'true collector' is somebody who collects for the love of the comics and doesn't see them as investments.

 

 

I totally agree. I think its arrogant to even define the term. It's all relative.

A guy with potloads of cash who can buy anything he wishes because he loves comic books is a true collector, but so is a 13 year old kid who does a paper route so he can buy a few books a month.

If there has to be a definition then perhaps it may mean anyone who pumps money into the hobby on a fairly regular basis because they love comic books.

Doesn't matter if its nickels and dimes or dead presidents.

There again a hobo who lives in a cardboard box, and has no money, but who asks people to donate comic books to him instead of cash, is also a true collector.

To say anyone is a true collector because of monetary muscle is vulgar, obnoxious and most of all, WRONG.

[tth2]

 

This escrow thing is done frequently, the only thing is that other people have to have the right to outbid them. You can't say that bidding stoppped at $110,000 so I'm giving you the book at $120,000. What you do is announce that you now have a bid of $120,000 and give everyone a chance to top it.

Since HA opened a shop in Midtown, buyers from New York state now pay almost 9% more in sales tax, btw.

 

 

Same here in CA...with them opening a coin shop in Beverly Hills...

 

As a Delaware resident, I'd be happy to serve in the future as your purchasing agent, Tom. My fees are modest.

Be careful, avoidance of state sales tax is one of the things that got Dennis Kozlowski sent to prison!

[Bluetooth-migration]

 

What the heck did I do?

 

 

[namisgr]

 

This escrow thing is done frequently, the only thing is that other people have to have the right to outbid them. You can't say that bidding stoppped at $110,000 so I'm giving you the book at $120,000. What you do is announce that you now have a bid of $120,000 and give everyone a chance to top it.

Since HA opened a shop in Midtown, buyers from New York state now pay almost 9% more in sales tax, btw.

 

 

Same here in CA...with them opening a coin shop in Beverly Hills...

 

As a Delaware resident, I'd be happy to serve in the future as your purchasing agent, Tom. My fees are modest.

Be careful, avoidance of state sales tax is one of the things that got Dennis Kozlowski sent to prison!

 

Couldn't see the tongue in cheek? My state has no sales tax. As for the people living in other states, obviously it's up to them to deal with it.

[tth2]

 

This escrow thing is done frequently, the only thing is that other people have to have the right to outbid them. You can't say that bidding stoppped at $110,000 so I'm giving you the book at $120,000. What you do is announce that you now have a bid of $120,000 and give everyone a chance to top it.

Since HA opened a shop in Midtown, buyers from New York state now pay almost 9% more in sales tax, btw.

 

 

Same here in CA...with them opening a coin shop in Beverly Hills...

 

As a Delaware resident, I'd be happy to serve in the future as your purchasing agent, Tom. My fees are modest.

Be careful, avoidance of state sales tax is one of the things that got Dennis Kozlowski sent to prison!

 

Couldn't see the tongue in cheek? My state has no sales tax. As for the people living in other states, obviously it's up to them to deal with it.

I know you're joking, but folks should remember that intentionally structuring purchases so that they are deemed to be made from states where sales tax wouldn't be charged, rather than from one's home jurisdiction where sales tax would be chargeable, is a criminal offense.

[Mmehdy]

For me, a true collector by necessity has to be both a true lover of comic art and wear an investment hat to avoid major losses in event he or she is forced to sell the collection due to an emergancy. You are not there just to make money, like a dealer who does not collect.

 

Some collectors can wear both hats and others cannot.

 

Surely a 'true collector' is somebody who collects for the love of the comics and doesn't see them as investments.

 

 

I totally agree. I think its arrogant to even define the term. It's all relative.

A guy with potloads of cash who can buy anything he wishes because he loves comic books is a true collector, but so is a 13 year old kid who does a paper route so he can buy a few books a month.

If there has to be a definition then perhaps it may mean anyone who pumps money into the hobby on a fairly regular basis because they love comic books.

Doesn't matter if its nickels and dimes or dead presidents.

There again a hobo who lives in a cardboard box, and has no money, but who asks people to donate comic books to him instead of cash, is also a true collector.

To say anyone is a true collector because of monetary muscle is vulgar, obnoxious and most of all, WRONG.

 

In a perfect world where comic books were back in the early 70's and affordable I agree, when action #1 broke $12500 when bruce hamiliton sold it in 1982, things began to change. Today, you have to consider the price aspect because you now have worldwide competition and auction houses. You can be both and do both and it is the reality, right, wrong, or no comment it is what is. In my opinion it is not wrong but logical and safe given the price of Ga/SA in current market conditions.