Should page quality be awarded points in the registry?

[mysterio]

Hi all, there has been an interesting discussion in the journals section about assigning point values to PQ as part of the registry. You can check it out here if you would like to read it.

 

I was just wondering what people's opinion on this might be from the broader CG audience, as many don't ever get into the journals thread to see something like this. My proposal was to add PQ as a multiplier onto the base points for a particular book. For example:

 

White pages = 25% more points for that book

OW-W pages = 15% more points for that book

OW = 5% more points for that book

CR-OW = 0%

Tan = -5% points

Brittle = -25%

 

So if a particular book in 9.4 was assigned 1000 base points a copy with white pages would then be worth 1250 registry points, a copy with brittle pages would be given 750 points and so on.

 

Please discuss!

[Sal]

PQ is the most overhyped part of any encapsulated book.

 

You think grades are subjective?

 

 

 

Realistically, there's no good way to differentiate in the current system between a book with blinding white pages and a book with blinding white pages but that has a sliver of fading along the edges.

 

Or between a book with blinding white pages and a book that was printed with a different paper roll in-run that might not have been of high a quality. OR an off-white book that would on another day be listed as "white" and a book that is white, but that might, on another day, be listed as off-white.

 

Of course, you should take my comments with a small pile of salt, as I think the whole concept of "competition" in collecting - and thus the "point system" in the registry - is rather silly and a good way to experience buyer's remorse at some point down the line

 

[mysterio]

PQ is the most overhyped part of any encapsulated book.

 

You think grades are subjective?

 

 

 

Realistically, there's no good way to differentiate in the current system between a book with blinding white pages and a book with blinding white pages but that has a sliver of fading along the edges.

 

Or between a book with blinding white pages and a book that was printed with a different paper roll in-run that might not have been of high a quality. OR an off-white book that would on another day be listed as "white" and a book that is white, but that might, on another day, be listed as off-white.

 

Of course, you should take my comments with a small pile of salt, as I think the whole concept of "competition" in collecting - and thus the "point system" in the registry - is rather silly and a good way to experience buyer's remorse at some point down the line

 

I don't disagree with anything you've said. It is all subjective, and if you buy the label then great. Not always so good if you buy the book.

 

But if you do care about the registry, and you do buy what is on the label, then a book with white pages has white pages, and you likely paid a premium to get it. What the label means in the existential sense is separate from the concrete nature of the blue label saying "white pages" for a lot of collectors.

 

If CGC will assign points for one part of the label (the numerical grade) then why not also assign points for the other subjective assessment, the PQ, that also helps drive the value of a particular book?

[Sal]

PQ is the most overhyped part of any encapsulated book.

 

You think grades are subjective?

 

 

 

Realistically, there's no good way to differentiate in the current system between a book with blinding white pages and a book with blinding white pages but that has a sliver of fading along the edges.

 

Or between a book with blinding white pages and a book that was printed with a different paper roll in-run that might not have been of high a quality. OR an off-white book that would on another day be listed as "white" and a book that is white, but that might, on another day, be listed as off-white.

 

Of course, you should take my comments with a small pile of salt, as I think the whole concept of "competition" in collecting - and thus the "point system" in the registry - is rather silly and a good way to experience buyer's remorse at some point down the line

 

I don't disagree with anything you've said. It is all subjective, and if you buy the label then great. Not always so good if you buy the book.

 

But if you do care about the registry, and you do buy what is on the label, then a book with white pages has white pages, and you likely paid a premium to get it. What the label means in the existential sense is separate from the concrete nature of the blue label saying "white pages" for a lot of collectors.

 

If CGC will assign points for one part of the label (the numerical grade) then why not also assign points for the other subjective assessment, the PQ, that also helps drive the value of a particular book?

 

Oh, I've no disagreement with that premise. One wonders if their registry database is built to support the addition of PQ.

 

[oakman29]

90% of my books are raw,so I never cared for the registry.I don't care if PQ is added or not.

[Peter Loves Gwen]

PQ is the most overhyped part of any encapsulated book.

 

You think grades are subjective?

 

 

 

Realistically, there's no good way to differentiate in the current system between a book with blinding white pages and a book with blinding white pages but that has a sliver of fading along the edges.

 

Or between a book with blinding white pages and a book that was printed with a different paper roll in-run that might not have been of high a quality. OR an off-white book that would on another day be listed as "white" and a book that is white, but that might, on another day, be listed as off-white.

 

Of course, you should take my comments with a small pile of salt, as I think the whole concept of "competition" in collecting - and thus the "point system" in the registry - is rather silly and a good way to experience buyer's remorse at some point down the line

 

I don't disagree with anything you've said. It is all subjective, and if you buy the label then great. Not always so good if you buy the book.

 

But if you do care about the registry, and you do buy what is on the label, then a book with white pages has white pages, and you likely paid a premium to get it. What the label means in the existential sense is separate from the concrete nature of the blue label saying "white pages" for a lot of collectors.

 

If CGC will assign points for one part of the label (the numerical grade) then why not also assign points for the other subjective assessment, the PQ, that also helps drive the value of a particular book?

 

The PQ label description is almost useless, because it does two negative things. It makes people assume that the cover paper quality is related, and it does not always correlate. Plus the fact that the cover paper quality is completely unknown in a CGC slab, the label description is a disservice in describing the total paper quality.

 

Thus for a description that is not useful for describing overall paper quality, I would object to giving that more credence or weight in any way.

 

Any label paper quality description should in some way describe the paper quality of the covers. The PQ of the covers is critical, the interior pages PQ is not. 99% of defects are on the covers, not the interior pages. Add to that the fact that more and more books are no longer ever opened, they get sealed by CGC and may never be removed again.

 

I applaud the thinking to attempt to improve the registry, but doing anything with the label interior pages PQ description is not good. It's like judging a political candidate based on their smile, it's not important.

 

 

 

[mysterio]

PQ is the most overhyped part of any encapsulated book.

 

You think grades are subjective?

 

 

 

Realistically, there's no good way to differentiate in the current system between a book with blinding white pages and a book with blinding white pages but that has a sliver of fading along the edges.

 

Or between a book with blinding white pages and a book that was printed with a different paper roll in-run that might not have been of high a quality. OR an off-white book that would on another day be listed as "white" and a book that is white, but that might, on another day, be listed as off-white.

 

Of course, you should take my comments with a small pile of salt, as I think the whole concept of "competition" in collecting - and thus the "point system" in the registry - is rather silly and a good way to experience buyer's remorse at some point down the line

 

I don't disagree with anything you've said. It is all subjective, and if you buy the label then great. Not always so good if you buy the book.

 

But if you do care about the registry, and you do buy what is on the label, then a book with white pages has white pages, and you likely paid a premium to get it. What the label means in the existential sense is separate from the concrete nature of the blue label saying "white pages" for a lot of collectors.

 

If CGC will assign points for one part of the label (the numerical grade) then why not also assign points for the other subjective assessment, the PQ, that also helps drive the value of a particular book?

 

The PQ label description is almost useless, because it does two negative things. It makes people assume that the cover paper quality is related, and it does not always correlate. Plus the fact that the cover paper quality is completely unknown in a CGC slab, the label description is a disservice in describing the total paper quality.

 

Thus for a description that is not useful for describing overall paper quality, I would object to giving that more credence or weight in any way.

 

Any label paper quality description should in some way describe the paper quality of the covers. The PQ of the covers is critical, the interior pages PQ is not. 99% of defects are on the covers, not the interior pages. Add to that the fact that more and more books are no longer ever opened, they get sealed by CGC and may never be removed again.

 

I applaud the thinking to attempt to improve the registry, but doing anything with the label interior pages PQ description is not good. It's like judging a political candidate based on their smile, it's not important.

 

 

I don't disagree with anything else you said here either. If it were up to me there would be some way of differentiating the PQ of the cover from the PQ of the interior pages. I do disagree that the PQ of the interior pages is not important, but maybe just not as important as some would argue (though obviously tan or brittle pages are problematic as they can be a structural issue with a book). People make purchase decisions on books based at least partially on the PQ designation on the label. There are plenty of people who won't buy books with a PQ below OW-W (I certainly prefer not to, because I know it will affect resale down the road).

 

My point was simply that if one subjective measure of a book (the numerical grade) can be given a quantifiable value for the purposes of registry scores then I thought it was worth a discussion of the other subjective measurement on the label (the PQ) being given some weight as well. I think it is worth considering, though it makes no difference to me at the end of the day if the registry changes or not.

[DrWatson]

No.

 

Page quality is as fluid as mercury and can change with the weather.

[sufunk]

I'm fine with no extra points based on PQ

 

I would like them to make Pedigrees worth more though. SS books get more points so why shouldn't Pedigrees???

[chrisco37]

SS is a service provided by CGC for a price. Pedigree designation isn't.

 

SS worth more benefits CGC directly.

[gyro-1]

I'm fine with no extra points based on PQ

 

I would like them to make Pedigrees worth more though. SS books get more points so why shouldn't Pedigrees???

+1

[Gotham Kid]

 

I would like them to make Pedigrees worth more though. SS books get more points so why shouldn't Pedigrees???

+1

 

+2

 

However, as a PQ freak, I'm all for the extra points...

[rodan57]

My point was simply that if one subjective measure of a book (the numerical grade) can be given a quantifiable value for the purposes of registry scores then I thought it was worth a discussion of the other subjective measurement on the label (the PQ) being given some weight as well.

 

This would be my argument, also -- and the logical point to refute -- if you can.

[mysterio]

No.

 

Page quality is as fluid as mercury and can change with the weather.

 

Silly me. I forgot that the numerical grades were etched in stone.

 

The point of discussion was that if the label says something, like 9.4 white pages, that is basically incontrovertible. Now whether you agree with it or not, or whether or not the book is actually 9.4 white, is a different story altogether. But if the book can get x points for the number in the left corner of the label, then why not for the PQ designation, as that can also affect the value and desirability of a copy, or at least the value of the label attached to the copy (otherwise Clink and other sites wouldn't say that a white paged copy is the best available).

 

I'm also in favor of pedigree books getting more points.

[Peter Loves Gwen]

Would you rather own a VF book with OWW pages, and OWW covers,

or a VF book with OWW pages, and white covers,

or a VF book with OWW pages, and tanning covers?

 

If you care, you should prefer the white cover book the most, and the tanning cover book the least. The covers are ten times more important than the interior pages. I do not like the idea of awarding any points for a minor item like interior pages, when the cover quality is left a mystery.

 

The idea of doing anything with the labeled interior PQ is wrong, it's not significant compared to the very significant cover quality. That clouds the issue of what is important, it defines the interior PQ as more important than it is.

 

All of the effort which is put into discussing interior pages PQ, that should be directed towards CGC. They should change the labels in some way that defines the cover PQ, either add that information, or replace the interior PQ with it.

 

It's like trying to fix the IRS, it's not worth saving, kill it.

[sufunk]

+1 Don!

 

Id think most people, especially with slabbed books want a white cover more than white pages. Last year when I subbed my multiple copies of uber HG Captain Marvel 2's and 3's the PQ seemed retarded. The two #2's both came back with ow pages and have the whitest, brightest covers of any 1960's books I've ever seen! They look like they came off the presses today! The #3's all came back either ow/w or w and the covers are all a little faded and browned out. They don't even come close to comparing to the #2's but all have better PQ

[RedBeanNinja-migration]

Hulk likes white pages...I can't argue with that. White pages it is!

[lou_fine]

SS is a service provided by CGC for a price. Pedigree designation isn't.

 

SS worth more benefits CGC directly.

 

From a collector's point of view, this makes absolutely no sense to me at all.

 

To have a book from the Church, Allentown, or Curator collection should definitely be worth more than a regular no-name book in the same condition. As for SS books, I would actually deduct points for these books because they have been "defaced" in amnner of speaking.

 

You should take my opinions with a grain of salt though, because I have never looked at the Registry and don't really see the need for this type of scoreboard in the first place.

[Old Fashion PB and J]

I'm fine with no extra points based on PQ

 

I would like them to make Pedigrees worth more though. SS books get more points so why shouldn't Pedigrees???

This is an old discussion. Simple answer, why? What makes them so special? They are pressed just like every other book these days, so why in the world would a pedigree designation be worth

[comicdonna]

I am guessing that CGC isn't set up to distinguish white page/pedigree books from the others, just by entering a number in the registry. So, I doubt this will ever happen.