(CBLDF) To defend Alan Moore's NEONOMICON in South Carolina

[jools&jim]

 

I'd say that within our lifetime the "book burning" trope will be non-functional in censorship debates. I mean, is it technically possible to immolate a digital download? "Book erasing" is just so much less...colorful, isn't it?

[seanfingh]

 

 

 

However, after reading the story reading what the mother said. She was with her daughter when that book was picked out. Her daughter could not have gotten that book without her mother there. Her mother signed that book out for her without even looking at the "Adult Material" label on the book or cracking it open.

 

You and I, as responsible parents, would have read it as a huge red flag when the librarian asked us for express permission to check out this book as it is not given to children without a parent signing off on it. We would have at least check the book for the label it has on the back cover. We would have at least cracked it open.

 

If we cared enough, after the fact, to call a news crew to our house, we would have cared enough to be the slightest bit responsible when the time came.

 

This mom, is feeling more than a little embarrassed that she fell on her face in her responsibility and is foisting it on the library system. If it were you or I our kids would never have had this book in their possession at all.

 

 

Chris, I believe you have two facts wrong in this post.

 

1. I just checked Amazon to be sure, but there is no label warning on this book.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Alan-Moores-Neonomicon-Avatar-Moore/dp/1592911307/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1340207354&sr=8-1&keywords=neonomicon

 

2. The mom admitted to flipping through the first twenty pages or so and thought that it was simply a police procedural. (so she, in fact, at least cracked it open)

 

 

It's really easy for us to sit in judgement on these boards over this particular book and the mom who allowed her child to read it, but let's be honest- we are huge nerds when it comes to this type of stuff. We really expect all parents to know there's tentarape in comics? The comic book industry as a whole is unregulated, and if this book HAD undergone a rigorous review process, similar to film, music and video games, this likely would NOT have happened.

 

It's REAL easy to throw blame on the mom here, but the industry itself, as well as the library system bears some responsibility.

 

 

Most Avatar books have the warning on the back. This one doesn't?

 

Where did the mom say she flipped through the book? It wasn't in that video.

 

It's definitely not in that video, which I thought it was. I could weasel out and say i thought I read it somewhere else, but that would be

 

Honestly, I think what I did was mash up parts of it in my mind. It is the daughter that says she thought it was a crime drama, and the mom says that she only looked at it after the daughter said the curse word.

 

I await the minions of Cthulu to mete out my punishment.

[Comicopolis]

I'd say that within our lifetime the "book burning" trope will be non-functional in censorship debates. I mean, is it technically possible to immolate a digital download? "Book erasing" is just so much less...colorful, isn't it?

 

Destroy all computers.

[Ogami]

 

the mashed up parts of my mind

 

 

[VintageComics]

I await the minions of Cthulu to mete out my punishment.

 

How about a dozen Huzzah! and a rubbing of the manphibian?

[seanfingh]

I await the minions of Cthulu to mete out my punishment.

 

How about a dozen Huzzah! and a rubbing of the manphibian?

 

How about Fingh is not even close to perfect despite occasionally thinking he is pretty damn close.

[dupont2005]

There is really nothing for the CBLDF to defend here. Their "defense" consists of a letter urging the library to make the book available. It bristles with logic like "Removing this book because of objections to its content is impermissible under the First Amendment."

 

The library merely removed the book from the shelves. There is no legal action against Moore or the publishers.

 

Nobody is saying the book should not be sold to private individuals. The library is reviewing whether they should use public funds taken from local taxpayers to buy Moore's latest pastiche.

 

This is nothing but an attempt by Bleeding Cool/Avatar Press to gain publicity and notoriety for the book.

 

Everyone keeps saying "PUBLIC FUNDED! PUBLIC FUNDED!" like it matters. Yes, the pibrary is publicly funded. I'm willing to bet a great many of their books, especially in the graphic novel section, are donations. So now a publicly funded institution could possibly be turning away a donation of a book written by who some would call a master of his genre, because one parent got offended. Lets go through the library and make sure there isn't a single book on that shelf that could possibly offend anybody.

 

 

Hey, at least they aren't trying to force kids to read it in biology class

[dupont2005]

The other problem is the fact that trash like this is published at all.

Well, same as my above comment. I bet a couple books you highly regard could be considered the "worst kind of trash" to someone else. I guess we'll just have to publish them all, buy what we like, and allow others to like different things and move on with our lives.

[Comicopolis]

The other problem is the fact that trash like this is published at all.

Well, same as my above comment. I bet a couple books you highly regard could be considered the "worst kind of trash" to someone else. I guess we'll just have to publish them all, buy what we like, and allow others to like different things and move on with our lives.

 

No, no, no - everyone has the right to be judgmental regarding things they don't like.

 

Don't bring common sense into a CGC thread.

[dupont2005]

The other problem is the fact that trash like this is published at all.

Well, same as my above comment. I bet a couple books you highly regard could be considered the "worst kind of trash" to someone else. I guess we'll just have to publish them all, buy what we like, and allow others to like different things and move on with our lives.

 

No, no, no - everyone has the right to be judgmental regarding things they don't like.

 

Don't bring common sense into a CGC thread.

Nothing wrong about being vocally judgmental about things you don't like. Thinking things you don't like shouldn't be published is an entirely different ballpark though.

[VintageComics]

I await the minions of Cthulu to mete out my punishment.

 

How about a dozen Huzzah! and a rubbing of the manphibian?

 

How about Fingh is not even close to perfect despite occasionally thinking he is pretty damn close.

 

Quoted because I can.

 

 

[Ryan.]

The other problem is the fact that trash like this is published at all.

Well, same as my above comment. I bet a couple books you highly regard could be considered the "worst kind of trash" to someone else. I guess we'll just have to publish them all, buy what we like, and allow others to like different things and move on with our lives.

 

No, no, no - everyone has the right to be judgmental regarding things they don't like.

 

Don't bring common sense into a CGC thread.

Nothing wrong about being vocally judgmental about things you don't like. Thinking things you don't like shouldn't be published is an entirely different ballpark though.

 

It really baffles me when people maintain that viewpoint. This isn't me being "snarky". It really is baffling. I'm watching the show Workaholics right now. I'm guessing there are plenty of people out there who would consider this show "trash" that should never have been filmed. But I enjoy it and I believe that I should be able to continue enjoying it even if some bored housewife in St. Louis finds it offensive. We are still living in a Constitutionally-protected country, right? Or do I have that wrong?

 

Okay, that last bit was a tad snarky.

[dupont2005]

100% agree.

[comix4fun]

I await the minions of Cthulu to mete out my punishment.

 

How about a dozen Huzzah! and a rubbing of the manphibian?

 

How about Fingh is not even close to perfect despite occasionally thinking he is pretty damn close.

 

 

 

Fassbenders of varying sizes, shapes, textures, and colors have been dispatched to your location.

 

For the record, my punishment in this debacle was being forced to watch that video three times.

[heliosten]

First let me state I haven't read the graphic novel and have no idea what it is about.

 

After watching the video I am just poleaxed that this mother feels that there is anyone other than herself to blame. This comes from the uniquely American view that comics=children. The book was where it belonged, the child was where she didn't belong. I've read enough of Alan Moore's books to know that some of his stuff just doesn't belong in the hands of children.

 

 

I agree with you Chris. This book doesn't belong in the hands of children.

 

One of the problems is that the book was in fact accessible to a child. Whether anyone recognizes it or not, a 14 year old is a child and will make bad decisions and try to get access to something that they should not have. If the book were truly in an adults only setting, where the child could not get it, then this wouldn't be an issue.

 

The other problem is the fact that trash like this is published at all. I would not want my child exposed to this type of garbage, regardless of whether it was a mistake or not. I realize this is not the popular opinion, and frankly, I don't care. It is my opinion, based on my beliefs, and thats just the way it is.

 

This type of thing in particular is why I don't, and never will support the Comic Book Legal Defense Fund at all. It seems all they do is defend the worst type of trash that is published under the shell of the protection of free speech/anti-censorship banner.

 

Well to be fair, the mother gave the child access, but we don't know if the library enforces their rules or not either. Being a movie buff I see on a weekly basis that many parents don't have a clue. The recent Snow White movie was filled with 4 & 5 year olds at the screening I went to. That is NOT a movie for that age group.

 

Your second point I completely disagree with. Who exactly gets to decide what gets published and what doesn't?

 

Ok, it's difficult for me to argue pro/con on this book so I just went and ordered it from Amazon. This will be my first modern comic purchase since Kick ( which I very much enjoyed). Very curious about a book that can get people so opposed to it.

 

 

[dupont2005]

I haven't read it, and I don't have to in order to argue that it should be allowed to be published.

[seanfingh]

 

Just remember that there is a difference between wishing something hadn't been published, and saying that they shouldn't have the right to publish it. I wish against all wishes that Crossed had never been published, but I would defend to the death, their right to publish it.

[Davenport]

Just remember that there is a difference between wishing something hadn't been published, and saying that they shouldn't have the right to publish it. I wish against all wishes that Crossed had never been published, but I would defend to the death, their right to publish it.

Thank you.

 

Dale Roberts' opinion certainly seemed valid. Pointing out a "problem" resulted from a "fact". Nothing about censoring. Merely stated that Problem A (access by children) resulted from Problem B (being published).

 

[Davenport]

Neonomicon's publisher, Avatar Press, also owns Bleeding Cool. So another Bleeding Cool article adds some context for that Library's situation:

 

Bleeding Cool: WARNING: Tomorrow’s Neonomicon #2 From Alan Moore And Jacen Burrows

 

Here's a snippet: "Basically issue 2 contains a large number of graphic scenes of nudity. Of sex. And of sexual violence.

And I would hate it if a retailer were to find himself in hot water, getting the books out from a Wednesday delivery and rushing them to the shelves without having time to flick through the comic book for content and context.

I mean, this is a very good comic book. But it’s probably not worth someone going to jail for."

 

Unfortunate that librarian didn't get the memo.

 

[Whizzer]

Wait till they get a load of issue 4 of Saga, especially the panel where the guy has the bottle up his azz.