So who was Ra's Al Ghul?

[Dr. Balls]

No offence but how can any comic fan not know Neeson was Ra's in the movie (before the "twist")? He looked exactly like Ra's with the same facial hair. Ra's was never Asian. That "twist" was probably great for the general audiance have had no clue but to anyone who's ever read comics they should have figured it out right at the start.

 

It actually threw me off at the time because neither Liam Neeson or Ken Wantanabe was the same nationality of Ra's Al Ghul. I only had superficial knowledge of Bats, so I didn't really know what Nolan was doing with those two. I got Donna Chang'd

 

 

[Mephisto]

No offence but how can any comic fan not know Neeson was Ra's in the movie (before the "twist")? He looked exactly like Ra's with the same facial hair. Ra's was never Asian. That "twist" was probably great for the general audiance have had no clue but to anyone who's ever read comics they should have figured it out right at the start.

 

It actually threw me off at the time because neither Liam Neeson or Ken Wantanabe was the same nationality of Ra's Al Ghul. I only had superficial knowledge of Bats, so I didn't really know what Nolan was doing with those two. I got Donna Chang'd

 

 

[Maccai3]

the lazarus pit basically just brings him back to life, it was said to turn you insane though (Jason Todd the 2nd Robin came back this way) (as did Nora Fries then turned into Lazaria) (and it cured the Riddler of cancer) so he baths in them to keep young and if he died then the League of Assassins put him in the pit.

 

In JLA Tower of Babel he threatened to put Bruce's parents in one (he has several and there's one in the batcave)

[Heronext]

You mean Jason Todd who is the Red Hood now? I thought he came back to life because Superboy-Prime punched the space-time continuum...

[Maccai3]

You mean Jason Todd who is the Red Hood now? I thought he came back to life because Superboy-Prime punched the space-time continuum...

 

yeah thats how he came back to life but then he went into a Lazarus Pit later to restore his health etc

[inconceivable]

No offence but how can any comic fan not know Neeson was Ra's in the movie (before the "twist")? He looked exactly like Ra's with the same facial hair. Ra's was never Asian. That "twist" was probably great for the general audiance have had no clue but to anyone who's ever read comics they should have figured it out right at the start.

 

It actually threw me off at the time because neither Liam Neeson or Ken Wantanabe was the same nationality of Ra's Al Ghul. I only had superficial knowledge of Bats, so I didn't really know what Nolan was doing with those two. I got Donna Chang'd

 

 

I was sitting there during the movie thinking that Liam Neeson would have made a better Ra's than the asian guy, but then I remembered the Kingpin from Daredevil and I thought "hollywood license". I figured it out later.

 

Dan

[aggr1103]

If ever there were a thread more deserving of this emoticon:

 

[Maccai3]

If ever there were a thread more deserving of this emoticon:

 

yes indeed, it surprised me how many people missed it, i'm guessing the credits have Neeson as Ducard so it doesn't spoil the twist

[A-DONIS]

double

 

common sense has left the building.

[fantastic_four]

double

 

common sense has left the building.

 

How are you able to definitively rule out Ra's Al Ghul being a title for the leader of the League of Shadows?

[hulksmashdave]

double

 

common sense has left the building.

 

How are you able to definitively rule out Ra's Al Ghul being a title for the leader of the League of Shadows?

 

It's a good theory and that might have been what Nolan was hinting at. He was always just one guy in the source material though.

[fantastic_four]

It's a good theory and that might have been what Nolan was hinting at. He was always just one guy in the source material though.

 

Yea, I think that's why everyone's assuming it's so obvious Neeson was always Ra's--but there's no way Nolan liked the idea of Ra's being immortal though, so I think he wanted to break from the source material.

[aggr1103]

It's a good theory and that might have been what Nolan was hinting at. He was always just one guy in the source material though.

 

Yea, I think that's why everyone's assuming it's so obvious Neeson was always Ra's--but there's no way Nolan liked the idea of Ra's being immortal though, so I think he wanted to break from the source material.

 

Liam Neeson's character even says in the movie - "theatricality and deception are powerful agents."

 

Again:

[fantastic_four]

Liam Neeson's character even says in the movie - "theatricality and deception are powerful agents."

 

Again:

 

I at your condescension when don't appear to be as sure of Nolan's intent as you're pretending to be. As far as you or anyone else in the thread has illustrated he intentionally left it open to decide for yourself--that's one of Nolan's trademarks, he loves story points that are open to interpretation. Nobody knows what he was thinking except him--if you've discovered more conclusive evidence, please do share. It may be there, I just haven't seen it yet.

[Drakeprimeone]

double

 

common sense has left the building.

 

How are you able to definitively rule out Ra's Al Ghul being a title for the leader of the League of Shadows?

 

It's a good theory and that might have been what Nolan was hinting at. He was always just one guy in the source material though.

 

Whether or not in the Nolan universe Ra's is a title rather than a man is irrelavent. In the Nolan Batman series Ra's was always Liam Neeson.

 

Ken Wantanabe's character was a decoy stand in... he died and so Ra's picked a new decoy which you saw the lady identify during Bruce's bday party.

 

Actually here is proof it wasn't a title to be passed on... If it really was a title to be passed on then the man who the lady introduced to Bruce at his party really was Ra's and not Neeson's character.

 

[aggr1103]

Liam Neeson's character even says in the movie - "theatricality and deception are powerful agents."

 

Again:

 

I at your condescension when don't appear to be as sure of Nolan's intent as you're pretending to be. As far as you or anyone else in the thread has illustrated he intentionally left it open to decide for yourself--that's one of Nolan's trademarks, he loves story points that are open to interpretation. Nobody knows what he was thinking except him--if you've discovered more conclusive evidence, please do share. It may be there, I just haven't seen it yet.

 

 

I see...er...saw it both ways. I'm only because I'm astonished so many people didn't see that Liam's character was actually Ra's.

 

And isn't the emoticon for condescention. is.

[Mephisto]

"Surely, a man who spends his nights scrambling over the rooftops of Gotham wouldn't begrudge me dual identities?"

 

It helps to look at the entire exchange between the two from the screenplay:

 

Bruce Wayne: You're not Ra's al Ghul. I watched him die.

Henri Ducard: [from behind Bruce Wayne] But is Ra's al Ghul immortal?

[bruce turns around to face Ducard]

Henri Ducard: Are his methods supernatural?

Bruce Wayne: [to Ducard] Or cheap parlor tricks to conceal your true identity, "Ra's"?

Henri Ducard: Surely, a man who spends his nights scrambling over the rooftops of Gotham wouldn't begrudge me dual identities?

 

There are two ways to take this:

• As people are suggesting in this thread, Neeson was Ra's the entire time and Watanabe was a stand-in.
• Ra's is more of a title of whoever is leading the League of Shadows than a name of a unique individual. Watanabe was Ra's at the beginning, but when he died, Ducard assumed the title/role. This is supported by his question "But is Ra's al Ghul immortal?", implying that the role itself will never die.

I don't know which is meant to be the case, but I lean towards the second as it seems more consistent with Neeson describing the fact that the League of Shadows had been around for thousands of years. I haven't read any of the comics with him to know what DC's design was or whether Nolan adhered to or diverged from that character design. If the comic version of Ra's was supernatural in some way--let's say literally immortal, I don't know because I haven't researched the comic version of Ra's--I doubt Nolan intended his version to be superhuman and more likely intended Ra's to be a title for the head of the League of Shadows.

 

Ok so finally got around to watching Batman Begins again, and I am sorry but there is just no way that Liam Neeson was not Ra's the entire time. An important thing you miss by just going off the dialogue is that in that scene the person Bruce is saying "You're not Ra's al Ghul. I watched him die." is not Liam Neeson! He is saying it to a new replacement decoy! A woman at the party tells Bruce he must meet this man. "Am I pronouncing it right? Mr. Ra's Al Ghul." The man who turns around looks exactly like the original supposed Ra's Al Ghul. There is another decoy right there!

 

Neeson then comes from behind Bale and Bale immediately calls him Ra's Al Ghul. At no point in the film is Ra's Al Ghul ever even hinted at as merely being a title for the League of Shadows that is passed down. Every time Neeson mentions the League of Shadows he never says I was there he says WE as in the organization. He also tells Bruce you burned down MY home. There is no mention of killing his mentor. The way the dialogue flows with the actual shots in the party scene it is very apparent that Neeson was Ghul the entire time. The line about the cheap parlor trick is definitely in reference to using decoy's since Bruce had just turned away from one that looked just like the first one.

 

Also in the beginning by having a decoy for himself the entire time with Bruce it allowed Neeson to have the upper hand. Bruce wouldn't truly know his surroundings. If Bruce turned down the offer like he of course did it let the attack fall on the decoy, with the true mastermind in the wings. Also by getting so close to Bruce, and making it appear this supposed Ra's Al Ghul call the shots it made Bruce have more compassion toward Neeson which Neeson knew was his weakness. This originally saved Neeson's life.

[Turtle]

In the least condescending way possible, it does surprise me that so many people on a comic message board missed a pretty critical plot point in a generally well-received comic movie. I surprised mostly because after I watch comic movies, I generally read reviews written by members here and find that many of you pick up on the tiniest nuances of other movies that I miss completely on the first viewing.

 

Partially related...how do you pronounce "Ra's Al Ghul"? I ask because my assumption was the way they stated it in the movie: Roz All Ghoul (more or less).

 

I've recently played Batman: Arkham City (solid game, by the way) and they pronounce his name several times as "Rache All Ghoul" (Rache sounds like Anne Heche ). The game seems to be spot on with a lot of things, but this one threw me a little. Anyone else play the game and notice that?

[bane]

I've recently played Batman: Arkham City (solid game, by the way) and they pronounce his name several times as "Rache All Ghoul" (Rache sounds like Anne Heche ). The game seems to be spot on with a lot of things, but this one threw me a little. Anyone else play the game and notice that?

 

The game is pretty much spot on in terms of following the DC Universe except with one character.

 

Bane. They followed the Bane from batman & Robin, a small guy who gets injected with Venom and becomes 11ft tall. As opposed to a 6'5 Bane who uses Venom to enhance his strength but stays the same.

 

The only aspect of the game I didn't like. Rest was perfect.

[aggr1103]

Bane. They followed the Bane from batman & Robin, a small guy who gets injected with Venom and becomes 11ft tall. As opposed to a 6'5 Bane who uses Venom to enhance his strength but stays the same.

 

Compared to alot of the thugs in the streets, Batman looked 6'5" in Arkham City.