What the reasoning behind using GPA pricing on raw books?

[VintageComics]

Not to mention, of course, that the prices from Heritage auctions recorded on GPA included Heritage's hefty BP.

 

As they should if it's factored into someone's price they are willing to pay. They are significant, and much more than just a $20 postage charge on most books.

[Sqeggs]

Not to mention, of course, that the prices from Heritage auctions recorded on GPA included Heritage's hefty BP.

 

isn't that because that's what the buyer paid? what difference does it make who they paid?

Good point, assuming that buyer's are rational and take the the BP into account when bidding. Come to think of it, Heritage does do a good job making the price + BP easily visible to bidders.

[Sqeggs]

Not to mention, of course, that the prices from Heritage auctions recorded on GPA included Heritage's hefty BP.

 

As they should if it's factored into someone's price they are willing to pay. They are significant, and much more than just a $20 postage charge on most books.

True enough. GPA doesn't include HA's "service and handling" charge, which may not be worth bothering about.

[Sqeggs]

Not to mention, of course, that the prices from Heritage auctions recorded on GPA included Heritage's hefty BP.

 

As they should if it's factored into someone's price they are willing to pay. They are significant, and much more than just a $20 postage charge on most books.

Thinking about this one again in the context of the OP's question about quoting GPA for raw books. While it's true that GPA prices reflect what someone was willing to pay, at least the HA prices recorded in GPA are well above what the seller received. So asking for a GPA price, even for a slabbed book, in a selling thread is asking to receive an HA price without the time, effort, and expense involved with consigning to HA. No problem with asking for such a price, but it may be optimistic to expect to receive it.

 

In the end, of course, as a number of people have noted, prices are determined by what a particular seller and a particular buyer are willing to agree on, rather than what OS or GPA may have the book priced at.

[PovertyRow]

It basically comes down to "realized" vs "potential".

 

The only way to assure any CGC grade is to sub the book and have them grade it. Books that have been subbed and assigned a grade = "realized".

 

Books that SEEM like they would grade at a CGC grade = "potential".

 

Only problem is, as most know, books can be resubbed and get a higher or lower garde depending on the day. So even a very experienced CGC guestimator may make an accurate assessment of what a book may grade as, but it may take 2 or 3 trips before that realized grade is achieved.

 

To much "if" in it all.

 

One more thought: the trip from the seller to the buyer, from the buyer to CGC and from CGC back to the buyer adds layers of potential for even slight damage that could impact the final grade. Another point in favor of the "realized" grade a book has achieved that is already in a slab.

[lizards2]

It basically comes down to "realized" vs "potential".

 

The only way to assure any CGC grade is to sub the book and have them grade it. Books that have been subbed and assigned a grade = "realized".

 

Books that SEEM like they would grade at a CGC grade = "potential".

 

Only problem is, as most know, books can be resubbed and get a higher or lower garde depending on the day. So even a very experienced CGC guestimator may make an accurate assessment of what a book may grade as, but it may take 2 or 3 trips before that realized grade is achieved.

 

To much "if" in it all.

 

One more thought: the trip from the seller to the buyer, from the buyer to CGC and from CGC back to the buyer adds layers of potential for even slight damage that could impact the final grade. Another point in favor of the "realized" grade a book has achieved that is already in a slab.

Don't forget the 'pig-in-a-slab' possibility too. I've cracked out a few pigs that I'm pretty sure some of the decent graders around here would never have graded as highly as CGC did. A great example was a B&B in the #60s that was a 9.4 in the slab, but 9.0 out of the slab. That is definitely one book that I regret deslabbing.

[RockMyAmadeus]

It's not just risk that you get with a raw book. You also get potential upside that a book has been undergraded or can be pressed to a higher grade.

 

It's attitudes like this that make "nice looking" raw $1000+ keys fly off of eBay. But people are kidding themselves if their first thought is "here's a deal" versus "why isn't this book in a slab."

 

Kudos to sellers who guarantee the CGC grade their book will receive. Both of them.

 

 

[ComicConnoisseur]

No one will pay for your raw books near CGC prices anyway, even if you know what you are doing, unless you are a dealer like Harley Yee. You have to CGC your 9.4's and 9.6's and sell on comic link to get the GPA price if you want it. Otherwise you are arguing with boardies over grades etc and getting 30% off an already discounted grade.

 

Wrong.

 

I sell raw at top dollar regularly, even in the 9.4/9.6 range. There are other dealers that do the same regularly.

 

The obsession over micro-grading seems to me to have gotten out of hand. In my own little private rebellion, I have even stopped using half-grades. If I can't justify a book being a 5.0, I grade and price it as a 4.0 (I always round down with the grade). If the book is better than a 9.0, it gets a universal "NM" label (meaning it could be between a 9.2 and a 9.6-- again I'm pricing gold/silver/bronze-- not moderns). If a book is so expensive that a half-grade is that important, then that certainly is a book worth me sending to CGC. If a buyer is all twisted up over whether my comic is a 9.4 or a 9.6, then they can send it off to CGC.

 

Using micrometers to grade mass-market paper products is not especially sane.

I thought that from the beginning,especially with bronze age and up comic books. I could never understand why someone would pay hundreds to thousands of dollars just to go from a 9.6 to 9.8.

[ciorac]

GPA pricing on raw is used because some sellers are CPA (Can't price anything).

 

Others who do this are considered by me to be undertakers measuring you for the coffin they want to bury you in.

 

Then there are those who feel that Overstreet and your historical sales mean nothing unless the numbers have come from Ebay, Pedigree or Heritage.

 

There are VERY few ebay raw sellers I would even consider referencing. Why would I want their pricing input?

 

 

 

Kinda painting with an overly broad brush there Bob.

 

Isn't it just possible that perhaps a seller:

 

1. Can grade in the range of CGC?

2. Doesn't sell comics for a living?

3. Because of the infrequency of their sales, they seek out as many data points as possible to determine price?

4. Is aware that there are plenty of folks out there that would love to swoop in and scoop up their raw comics priced way under GPA or any other relevant pricing source?

 

And if any, or all, of these suppositions are true, why shouldn't they consider GPA pricing as a tool to determine the asking price of their properly graded comics?

 

Most people reference comps when listing their house, even not identical ones. Most use some pricing source before listing their car for sale, against similar ones. etc

 

It is prudent to do so.

[blazingbob]

Hey Bill, if you want GPA prices for a slab than put it in one.

 

And after you factor in the shipping both ways and grading of the GPA priced book you will now be the latest highest price for that title/issue.

 

Why should a buyer take all the risk when buying? Don't you feel good if a raw guaranteed CGC 9.4 comes back a CGC 9.6? Do you like dealing with returns even if the guy guaranteed the grade and it comes back lower? 2 grades lower and threads get started.

 

Then there are the sellers who frankly don't want to leave any money on the table for the buyer. And some I've met over the years who would love nothing more than to bury you in it because of their "pricing method".

 

Should I as a buyer begin to bring the GPA sales trend into account when buying? If it's going up then maybe I'm ok with paying GPA prices. If it's going down how much lower should I bid? Maybe I should quote bollinger bands or market trends and comic investor sentiment when buying and negotiating.

 

I am not painting a overly broad picture.

 

You did make a living just using the Overstreet price guide, No?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ciorac]

I use averages. And I usually don't quote any of the pricing sources. But I certainly avail myself of all pricing data I can before offering a valuable book to market.

 

However, most of the stuff I sell isn't particularly valuable so I list it at a large discount to Overstreet.

 

 

[blazingbob]

I don't quote the sources of my pricing either.

 

But I'm more than happy to discuss my pricing of books with perspective buyers.

 

And I'm more than happy to be "fair" which is how I like to be treated.

 

Emotional sellers don't quote sources but I'm quick to see if somebody has a very strong emotional attachment to a book. And I'm also aware of the "I'm buried so deep in this I don't want to acknowledge the loss" seller.

 

Comic pricing is not the stock market but frankly I get the feeling that some out there want it that way. Flipping can be translated into Day trading. GPA is as close to a stock market look that is out there. Why else would they have the green and red up and down arrows, trend lines. CGC books have always been dollar and cent transactions, it's pretty hard to convince a seller that their 9.2 is really a 9.0 when trying to buy it. Raw books to me are still trying to get two opinions on the same page and trust. If I trust your grading and your word I might pay up. If I don't I won't.

 

To me using GPA is the same as nickel and diming. Come up with a fair price that makes both of you happy and move on. Long term relationships net so much more satisfied customers than short term ones.

[Primetime]

I don't quote the sources of my pricing either.

 

But I'm more than happy to discuss my pricing of books with perspective buyers.

 

And I'm more than happy to be "fair" which is how I like to be treated.

 

Emotional sellers don't quote sources but I'm quick to see if somebody has a very strong emotional attachment to a book. And I'm also aware of the "I'm buried so deep in this I don't want to acknowledge the loss" seller.

 

Comic pricing is not the stock market but frankly I get the feeling that some out there want it that way. Flipping can be translated into Day trading. GPA is as close to a stock market look that is out there. Why else would they have the green and red up and down arrows, trend lines. CGC books have always been dollar and cent transactions, it's pretty hard to convince a seller that their 9.2 is really a 9.0 when trying to buy it. Raw books to me are still trying to get two opinions on the same page and trust. If I trust your grading and your word I might pay up. If I don't I won't.

 

To me using GPA is the same as nickel and diming. Come up with a fair price that makes both of you happy and move on. Long term relationships net so much more satisfied customers than short term ones.

Bob, you always make good sense

[NewWorldOrder]

Kinda painting with an overly broad brush there Bob.

 

Isn't it just possible that perhaps a seller:

 

1. Can grade in the range of CGC?

 

A lot of people can grade spot on with CGC standards but that still doesn't mean if you have a NM #98 you think is a 9.8 copy you can ask CGC GPA 9.8 price for it.

 

If you do then the seller should have a firm return policy if the book grades lower then a refund should be firmly allowed.

 

I sometimes use GPA to price raw books when it comes to Mid grades or VF copies because more often then not they usually price out about the same as the OSPG. Actually on some of the common Marvel books from post 68 the OSPG is overvaluing them so using GPA can actually be lower. However, using GPA to price our books over 9.2 is where I think a seller is out of line.

 

Especially when it comes to 9.6 and above quoting GPA on raw books is a bad business practice that will loose you a lot of future long-term customers.

 

If anyone thinks a books is 9.6+ then put your money where your mouth is and submit the book.

[blazingbob]

And there in lies the truth behind wanting to use GPA pricing for raw books.

 

I want the most money, I don't want to pay for shipping/grading/possible damage/waiting and I want my money now.

 

It's called instant gratification and sadly that seems to rule the day of collecting these days.

 

I have no problem with this either, just be truthful with yourself when you attempt to rationalize it to me.

[thehumantorch]

And there in lies the truth behind wanting to use GPA pricing for raw books.

 

I want the most money, I don't want to pay for shipping/grading/possible damage/waiting and I want my money now.

 

It's called instant gratification and sadly that seems to rule the day of collecting these days.

 

I have no problem with this either, just be truthful with yourself when you attempt to rationalize it to me.

 

I always think of CGC as an insurance policy. A book graded by CGC is worth more than a raw book because someone took the time and spent the money to get it inspected for restoration, and professionally graded.