A Tale of Two James Bamas (A SanDiego ComicCon Story full of drama and intrigue)

[Khwan-migration]

Something happened to me at the San Diego show that I think might be of interest to people here. Also I think it offers some interesting questions regarding collecting and buying original artwork.

 

JAMES BAMA-easily one of my favorite all-time artists. For me, his work goes far beyond "liking", rather, his best work (and I am not talking about his Doc Savage covers) touch me like few artists do. His passion for his work is evident in every brush stroke. A can look at his work for hours and never tire of it. His work is like all great artwork, it moves me. It adds to my life in a positive way.

Prior to the convention, I was lucky enough to own one of his originals. Since purchasing that original, I have not seen any other originals of his that I would like to own.

 

A few months ago, I received an email from Fred Taraba (from Taraba Illustration Art--the dealer I purchased my original Bama from two years ago) announcing that he updated his website with a number of new pieces. I clicked the link-and on the front page was a lovely image of a woman's face. I was surprised to see that it was in fact another James Bama that he was offering for sale.

 

I sent him and an email inquiring about this painting. Not only was it still available, but he had another Bama that he had not offered to anyone else. He sent a JPEG of that Bama to me. It was amazing-even better than the one he had on his website. No surprise, the prices were far from cheap (though considering what a lot of comic book artwork sells for these days, a bargain). I begged and borrowed and raised some money. After a number of emails back and forth, a deal was made to buy both pieces.

 

It should be noted that these two pages have NEVER been offered for sale before (and once I owned then, would hopefully never be offered again...I'm selfish that way). Fred obtained them from the art director at Dell Books who commissioned them for Dell covers from Bama in the late 60's. The man has owned them ever since, and this was the first time they were ever offered for sale.

 

Another series of emails, and it was agreed that I would pick the artwork up from Fred in San Diego. It should be noted that one of the pieces was signed and the other was unsigned. But Fred assured me that he was 100% sure of the authenticity of the unsigned painting-they both came from the same man (the Dell editor) and just looking at the paintings, they appear to be painted by the same man. That said, he offered to provide me with a Certificate of Authenticity that the unsigned painting was a true Bama.

 

I did not want to jinx my good luck, so I shared my good fortune with only a very small number of people. One of those people was John Flesk (publisher of Flesk books), who I am eternally grateful to for the numerous books he published/wrote about James Bama and his artwork.

 

Thursday afternoon, I picked up the two paintings. They were even more beautiful in person (I know, everyone always says this about all artwork). I took them back to Steve Morger's booth (Steve generously allowed me to keep the artwork at his booth). Before I was even able to put them away, Dan Berenton and Joyce Chin spotted them and insisted on studying the work. That is one of the things about Bama-artists almost universally respect him as one of the giants in illustration (as much as I like comic book art-I cannot think of many artists whose work can commend the kind of inspection someone like Bama's work can).

 

Finally, I was able to pry the paintings away from them and put them away.

All was well....and then....

 

Friday.

 

John Flesk asked to see the original. I showed them to him. He then asked if I would like Bama to authenticate the unsigned painting. John is finalizing a book of Bama's personal paintings and is in constant contact with him. He suggested that he call up Bama and ask him (Bama does not use email or text messages).

 

I have to admit I was a little worried-I didn't want to learn that my painting was not a Bama.

 

John called and started to describe the unsigned painting to Bama. Before he could go very far, Bama jumped in and finished the description of the painting. He knew the painting, when it was painted, what it was painted for, etc. He confirmed that he painted it.

 

According to John Flesk, John Bama is one of the sharpest 80-year old men he has ever met. His memory is infallible. He can remember a painting he did 50 years ago. Not only does he remember everything he has done, but he can often tell the story behind it, the models he used, etc.

 

Bama then asked about the other painting I got (the one that was signed). John started to describe it, and once again, Bama jumped in and finished describing it in detail. He knew the painting...and he said that he never painted it!

To clarify, Bama confirmed that the unsigned painting was his. But the signed painting, the one that was received from the same man (the Dell books editor who claims that Bama gave him both paintings over 40 years ago), was not his. To make matters more murky, the paperback that the painting appears on states (on the back cover) "Cover by: Bama". EVERYTHING about the painting would support a belief that it was done by Bama-except Bama said it wasn’t.

 

On the other hand, John Flesk studied the brush strokes and noticed that the signed painting had some very firm and strong lines, while the unsigned piece had more feather brush strokes-the feathery brush strokes were more "Bama" like. He also felt that the woman in the signed piece was too passive to be Bama. One of the key elements of Bama's work is strong women.

 

Needless to say, I was shocked. I did not know what to do. I loved the image, but if it was not what it was supposed to be, did I still want it?

 

I went back to Fred Taraba and told him what I had learned. He was almost as shocked as me (or maybe he was more shocked). He was positive that Bama had painted this cover, but told me that if I wanted to return it, he would refund my money. I told him I wanted to sleep on it. Over the night, the answer was clear; I was going to return it. I knew that I could never enjoy the painting with the nagging feeling in the back of my head that it might not be what I originally thought it was.

 

Prior to returning it on Friday, I stopped by John Flesk's booth. Once again, John offered to call Bama a second time. And, for a second time Bama insisted that he did not paint this image. Another collector had sent him a scan of it a few months ago, so he was familiar with it. As he said, "I could be wrong, but I am 100% sure that is not mine" (I not sure I understand that-I think he's trying to make a joke about it). He said that he's seen a lot of fakes and forgeries of his work, and this was one of them.

 

I returned the painting to Fred and Fred refunded my money-no questions or problems.

 

He said he was going to pull the painting from his "for sale" list and investigate with Bama and the editor the history and story behind this painting. He was very concerned about offering something that was not what it purported to be.

 

I should state that throughout this whole process, Fred Taraba was nothing but the most professional and honorable dealer. While he was 100% sure that this was painted by Bama, he never disputed that Bama was saying that it was not. And I think he handled the situation as best that he could given the circumstances.

 

Now, after all of this, I think this brings up some questions for anyone who buys original artwork.

 

What makes an original piece of artwork legitimate? Is the artist the final word? Or does the person who hired the artist have the final word? Does the fact that the work is not only signed, but is credited in writing on the cover of book, verify that the work is by a certain artist?

 

As someone who owns this work (or is trying to sell it), what responsibility do they have to disclose the question about the artist?

 

James Bama has a razor sharp memory, but what about an artist who has a more hazy recollection of their work? Does the artist always have the last word on what is his or her work or not?

 

As years go by, and more and more artists in this field pass away, who will determine whether a piece of artwork is legitimate or not? The history of this artwork would support a conclusion that Bama painted it...except Bama says he did not.

 

Lastly, I know the argument-if I love the artwork, does it matter who painted it? Yes and no. If it was a few hundred dollars, no, it would not matter. I would be disappointed that the painting was not done by one of my favorite artists, but that does not harm the actual image. On the other hand, when you are paying a premium price, there is an intangible value. I do not think I could enjoy it not knowing who painted it. And while I did not buy it with the idea that I would someday sell it for a profit, I also realize that someday I will not be walking this planet, and I want to be sure that whatever I leave my family has the value it is supposed to have.

 

With all that said, I have posted Bama that I did buy in my CAF gallery. With all the problems surrounding the other painting, I am happy to say that none of that has affected my excitement over obtaining this painting. This is easily my favorite piece of original artwork that I own. And I also think that it might be sexiest image I ever saw James Bama paint (it was so "hot" that when I showed Scott Shaw he was a bit shocked at it, stating that "I didn't know Dell ever got that explicit").

 

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=915727&GSub=94790

 

I would be curious to read any comments on this work. I simply am in owe of it-I love it. While so many people were talking about the $100,000 comic book covers and pages sold at Comic Con, for me, this artwork surpasses all of them (maybe not in resale value, but certainly in artistic value/quality IMHO)

 

 

KHWAN

 

P.S. Once again, I would like to publically thank John Flesk for stepping up and helping me by contacting James Bama, not once, but twice, to authenticate these paintings. While so many people worship superheroes like Superman, there are so few that practice those ideals in real life.

 

And I would also like to re-iterate that Fred Taraba was nothing but the most professional and honest dealer regarding his handling of this issue. Fred had absolutely no reason to believe that the painting he was selling was not done by James Bama, and as soon as he learned that it MIGHT not be an original Bama, he immediately took steps to protect me and did everything he could to make the deal fair.

 

[Bronty]

LOVELY piece. congrats!

[westform]

I think I would have to see the piece to make much of a comment, but I wonder why it would be signed. Maybe the editor was under a close deadline and had already lined up that cover as a Bama. James already had a reputation back in the day as a draw, so perhaps someone along the foodchain thought it would hurt sales not to have a Bama cover?? Seems like a stretch, but who knows. Or, maybe Bama has forgotten. He did tons of covers; can he remember them all? Interesting story...

[Khwan-migration]

Or, maybe Bama has forgotten. He did tons of covers; can he remember them all? Interesting story...

 

According to John Flesk (who talks to Bama 3-4 times a week working on a new book), Bama's memory is better than most people 60 years younger than him. He can remember who a model was, who the client was, what the project for a painting done in 1965. Supposedly, his memory about his work is like a encyclopedia.

 

You are right-maybe he cannot remember them all. So the question is-now what? Do you not consider it a Bama? Or is it forever tainted because Bama says it is not his?

 

 

KHWAN

[MisterX]

 

That's quite a painting!

 

And quite a story, too. Thanks for sharing!

[Dave Aikins]

could be that it was an inventory cover that was lying around the publisher's office unsigned. Someone wanted to use it, was sure it was by Bama, and thought they were doing him a favor by "signing" it... Sometimes good intentions don't help things, and there are always occasional mistakes in publishing.

 

I'd love to see the art in question! The one you bought is wonderful!

 

 

[westform]

Now what? You do what you did.... back away slowly. In my opinion, barring any new first hand info, the piece is somewhat tainted from a collector perspective. Like you say, a couple hundred bucks is okay either way, but shelling out thousands is very risky when the artist says he didn't touch it.

[lb jefferies]

 

I'd love to see the art in question!

 

 

If this is the piece in question, it's still up on Taraba Illustration's site:

 

http://www.tarabaillustrationart.com/art201.shtml

[VintageComics]

Or, maybe Bama has forgotten. He did tons of covers; can he remember them all? Interesting story...

 

According to John Flesk (who talks to Bama 3-4 times a week working on a new book), Bama's memory is better than most people 60 years younger than him. He can remember who a model was, who the client was, what the project for a painting done in 1965. Supposedly, his memory about his work is like a encyclopedia.

 

You are right-maybe he cannot remember them all. So the question is-now what? Do you not consider it a Bama? Or is it forever tainted because Bama says it is not his?

 

 

KHWAN

 

My understanding is that in legal proceedings memory is one of the least accurate representations of "the facts".

 

For example, my kids or Louise will often correct me saying I remembered something incorrectly.

 

If Bama's memory is so accurate you would think he would remember exactly where the painting came from and why his name is on it if indeed it wasn't his.

 

[Khwan-migration]

 

My understanding is that in legal proceedings memory is one of the least accurate representations of "the facts".

 

 

 

Really? I work for a lawyer and witnesses are a vital part of establishing "the facts". Most times all you have to determine what did or did not happen is a person's testimony.

 

And you look at motivation-what does Bama have to gain by lying whether he painted something or not.

 

 

 

 

If Bama's memory is so accurate you would think he would remember exactly where the painting came from and why his name is on it if indeed it wasn't his.

 

 

 

So you want Bama to remember something he did not do? That's like asking him to give a description of a place he's never visited.

[VintageComics]

The "facts" in court are simply a corroboration of information. Most times they represent the truth, sometimes they don't.

 

From what I understand, in a court of law the human memory is much less reliable than written documents...that's all I'm saying. The memory is not as reliable as written documentation from my understanding. That's why all important documents are handed down from generation to generation (sometimes for 100's or even 1000's of years) through writing.

 

And as far as Bama remembering? Was it he that signed the piece after someone else allegedly painted it? Did he know that his name was being used?

 

If his work was that sought after for his covered novels that someone had to forge his signature, you'd think that he knew that someone was signing HIS name to a pic on a novel that he was supposed to be drawing.

 

If his work was not that sought after (meaning, people didn't buy novels just to get his artwork they way people do today to catch a classic cover on a comic book) then why would the publisher sing his name to the picture? To sell more novels? Not likely, since those novels weren't purchased because of who did the covers. They were purchased for the material...the cover was merely used to entice people to read the interiors.

 

I don't think people bought those books to collect covers and follow artists. They bought them to indulge in the interiors.

 

The appreciation for the covers, and the collecting of them came afterwards.

 

 

 

 

[Khwan-migration]

 

If his work was not that sought after (meaning, people didn't buy novels just to get his artwork they way people do today to catch a classic cover on a comic book) then why would the publisher sing his name to the picture? To sell more novels? Not likely, since those novels weren't purchased because of who did the covers. They were purchased for the material...the cover was merely used to entice people to read the interiors.

 

I don't think people bought those books to collect covers and follow artists. They bought them to indulge in the interiors.

 

The appreciation for the covers, and the collecting of them came afterwards.

 

 

I think you did an excellent job of proving your own point. You are right, you can't trust people's testimony/opinion. Too many times they simply "guess" at history.

 

I would suggest you pick up a copy of the excellent book on Mr. Bama entitled "American Realist". Read the introduction by Harlan Ellison (you might know him from a few comic book stories he wrote (thumbs u ) who details his experiences buying any and every book that he could find that had a Bama cover on it (when they came out) for the simple fact that he collected Bama's work. If you read further into the book-you will learn Harlan was not alone.

 

 

Then again, what this has to do with the questions I raised regarding what to do when an artist states a work with his signature on it is not his is anyone's guess.

[CollectingFool]

We put WAAAAYYYY too much trust in the memory of artists. Back in 1999 or 2000 I went to a signing with John Romita Sr and Jr. I wanted Sr. to sign a cover he inked over Jack Kirby. There was a big Kirby signature on it. He took the cover and signed it before looking at it. Then he paused and stared at it for a while. Finally he said "This is pretty nice, who penciled it?". Jr. leaned over and said "Dad, it's Jack Kirby". If he couldn't recognize the most recognizable penciler in the business even when there's a huge signature on it I'm going to take every memory attribution with a grain of salt. Remember, this was 13 years ago in a quiet place with maybe 10 fans in it and he took his time. Also, this is a first hand account not a rumor. I wonder how many other pieces have been signed and/or been attributed to a specific artist on his say.

 

Mr Romita is a lovely man who is very friendly and warm to his fans, this is no knock on him. Just an example of how even an icon known for identifying pieces can easily be mistaken/confused/forgetful about a piece of art they did years ago.

 

 

 

[Catwoman_Fan]

Ruben, thanks for sharing your personal story, that's a good example.

[VintageComics]

I would suggest you pick up a copy of the excellent book on Mr. Bama entitled "American Realist". Read the introduction by Harlan Ellison (you might know him from a few comic book stories he wrote (thumbs u ) who details his experiences buying any and every book that he could find that had a Bama cover on it (when they came out) for the simple fact that he collected Bama's work. If you read further into the book-you will learn Harlan was not alone.

 

 

Then again, what this has to do with the questions I raised regarding what to do when an artist states a work with his signature on it is not his is anyone's guess.

 

Since you have turned me into a Bama follower I will definitely check out the book.

 

This is just meant to be a friendly discussion. That's all. Most of us are curious about the same things so we'd all like to get a greater understanding of it

 

 

Congrats on the terrific purchase!

[VintageComics]

We put WAAAAYYYY too much trust in the memory of artists. Back in 1999 or 2000 I went to a signing with John Romita Sr and Jr. I wanted Sr. to sign a cover he inked over Jack Kirby. There was a big Kirby signature on it. He took the cover and signed it before looking at it. Then he paused and stared at it for a while. Finally he said "This is pretty nice, who penciled it?". Jr. leaned over and said "Dad, it's Jack Kirby". If he couldn't recognize the most recognizable penciler in the business even when there's a huge signature on it I'm going to take every memory attribution with a grain of salt. Remember, this was 13 years ago in a quiet place with maybe 10 fans in it and he took his time. Also, this is a first hand account not a rumor. I wonder how many other pieces have been signed and/or been attributed to a specific artist on his say.

 

Mr Romita is a lovely man who is very friendly and warm to his fans, this is no knock on him. Just an example of how even an icon known for identifying pieces can easily be mistaken/confused/forgetful about a piece of art they did years ago.

 

 

To add to this, it's even more profound because Romita was taught by Kirby (at the direction of Stan Lee) to learn to "draw the Marvel way" when Romita came over to Marvel. Kirby literally mentored him and you can see much of Kirby's influence in Romita's pencils in the early Daredevil issues that Romita first pencilled for Marvel.

 

Romita was already an excellent artist in his own right already but he spent a lot of time with Kirby and Kirby's work.

 

And yes, I hear Romita is an awesome guy.

[stinkininkin]

We put WAAAAYYYY too much trust in the memory of artists. Back in 1999 or 2000 I went to a signing with John Romita Sr and Jr. I wanted Sr. to sign a cover he inked over Jack Kirby. There was a big Kirby signature on it. He took the cover and signed it before looking at it. Then he paused and stared at it for a while. Finally he said "This is pretty nice, who penciled it?". Jr. leaned over and said "Dad, it's Jack Kirby". If he couldn't recognize the most recognizable penciler in the business even when there's a huge signature on it I'm going to take every memory attribution with a grain of salt. Remember, this was 13 years ago in a quiet place with maybe 10 fans in it and he took his time. Also, this is a first hand account not a rumor. I wonder how many other pieces have been signed and/or been attributed to a specific artist on his say.

 

Mr Romita is a lovely man who is very friendly and warm to his fans, this is no knock on him. Just an example of how even an icon known for identifying pieces can easily be mistaken/confused/forgetful about a piece of art they did years ago.

 

 

 

True. Though inking is a little different than penciling, I have been brought pages to sign on multiple occasions that I don't remember doing in the slightest. It happened again at San Diego this year. Once I study it a bit, I can tell it's clearly my style, with tell tale "isms" that fit with how I worked at the time and my name is on the credits, but it's like it just popped into existence because I have no recollection of actually executing the piece or having ever seen it before. Do not trust an artists memory, or at least THIS artist's memory.

 

Scott Williams

[thehumantorch]

 

If his work was not that sought after (meaning, people didn't buy novels just to get his artwork they way people do today to catch a classic cover on a comic book) then why would the publisher sing his name to the picture? To sell more novels? Not likely, since those novels weren't purchased because of who did the covers. They were purchased for the material...the cover was merely used to entice people to read the interiors.

 

I don't think people bought those books to collect covers and follow artists. They bought them to indulge in the interiors.

 

The appreciation for the covers, and the collecting of them came afterwards.

 

 

I think you did an excellent job of proving your own point. You are right, you can't trust people's testimony/opinion. Too many times they simply "guess" at history.

 

I would suggest you pick up a copy of the excellent book on Mr. Bama entitled "American Realist". Read the introduction by Harlan Ellison (you might know him from a few comic book stories he wrote (thumbs u ) who details his experiences buying any and every book that he could find that had a Bama cover on it (when they came out) for the simple fact that he collected Bama's work. If you read further into the book-you will learn Harlan was not alone.

 

 

Then again, what this has to do with the questions I raised regarding what to do when an artist states a work with his signature on it is not his is anyone's guess.

 

Looking at the two pieces I immediately get the feel that they're done by the same artist. They are both stunning.

 

My mother is in her 80s. Her memory is very scattered, she can remember certain events in her life like it was yesterday yet forget other events. I hope Mr Bama's memory and health are 100% but it is possible that he can clearly remember the details to one piece yet forget the other entirely.

[Khwan-migration]

So, the conclusion seems to be...if an artist is old, he cannot be trusted to validate whether a work was done by him or not?

 

We should trust others (who may have a financial stake in claiming a work was done by a more well known "name" artist) to say who painted or drew a work or not?

 

The John Romita example, while interesting, was not what happened in this case. From my example, Bama saw a work of art, saw that his name was on it, learned that someone was selling it, and said "no, its not mine".

 

John Flesk, the author of at least two books on Bama's art, studied the painting and felt that there were certain characteristics that were very un-Bama like, spoke to Bama at length about it, and Bama insisted that it was not his.

 

But, Bama is an older gentleman, so it must be his.

 

With that in mind, I think I think I am going to go on eBay and bid on some sketches by Charles Schultz, Michael Turner, and Bill Watterson...those sellers have good stories to go with the artwork. And since 2 of the 3 artists are dead...OK, not the best example, I'll go with getting some Steve Ditko and Frank Miller sketches and drawings. You know, those two can't be trusted to admit or deny whether a piece of artwork is theirs or not.

[Bird]

Khwan, You are really stretching what the others have said. I do not think anyone really says the work must be Bama's even though he doesn't recall it, they only said he may be mistaken as he is human. You asked "now what" and seem annoyed when people responded.

 

The point as I see it is that Bama's memory should not be taken as gospel truth, despite what noted memory expert John Flesk says. But if his memory was so good, perhaps he WOULD recall some facts about how this type of thing could have happened. But no one has said that the absence of facts proves he did it, just that the absence of facts does not prove he DIDN'T do it. (is that clear?)

 

Anyway, I am glad you are happy with the one you got. Thanks to you the provenance of 2 pieces has been improved.