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Interview with MIKE BURKEY--the art dealer's perspective on OCAL

Started by glenbru,

216 posts in this topic

jjeanius

jjeanius

Posted
Posted
I think this is it...it was posted yesterday.

 

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/comicart-l/message/20605

 

San Diego Con Report...less Byrne debating!

 

Posted By:

willgabri.el@xxxxx.xxxx

Fri Aug 13, 1999 4:54 pm

 

..."FF #53 complete story...$45K!"

 

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/comicart-l/message/33677

 

Re: THE OTHER SIDE OF THE ROMITAMAN DEAL

 

Posted By:

ASTA99@xxxxx.xxx

Tue Dec 7, 1999 4:41 pm

 

At the last San Diego Con Brunswick went in w/ a fellow comicart-l

member to acquire the art to the complete FF 53 story. After the deal

Brunswick decided to keep the art to himself and compensated the partner

some other way. The partner was not happy. Shows you where Brunswick's

ethics lie (or lay), in his case probably lie.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/comicart-l/message/202193

 

A bit of the old Kirby/Sinnott for MLK

 

Posted By:

glenbru62

Sun Jan 16, 2005 8:39 pm

 

In honor of Martin Luther King day Marvel decided to relaunch The

Black Pather series.

 

Continuing with that theme, I've posted the complete original story

to FF 53 on my comicartfans gallery. This is the second appearance

and origin story for Black Panther. Kirby and Sinnott at their

peak. Also updated a number of other galleries if you care to

check 'em out.

 

link:

 

http://outside-affiliatelinksnotallowed.com/68wde

 

Thanks,

Glen

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/comicart-l/message/259358

 

FF 53 COMES HOME. WELCOME BACK - KIRBY ART DAY!

 

Posted By:

glenbru62

Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:30 am

 

A special shout out of thanks to Dan "The Man" Forman. He sold me back the

FF 53 book that I had traded to him a few years back. He didn't have to

offer me first shot but he did. I really appreciate the gesture!

 

I sold a bunch of pages but kept my favorite seven. You can see them on my

CAF:

 

_http://qurls.com?i=2274_ (http://qurls.com?i=2274)

 

IMHO, this is Kirby/Sinnott at their best. I'm happy to get them back!

 

Enjoy!

 

Glen Brunswick

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/comicart-l/message/275602

 

Re: Realistic art pricing?

 

Posted By:

h_kosenkranius

Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:54 pm

 

 

--- In comicart-l@yahoogroups.com, "comicartwrangler"

wrote:

 

> Well, part of my problem Hans is that some of those prices did

indeed 'materialize' there. I mean, does it really make sense that a

Ditko Spidey splash sells for 80-90K this summer and now we're

talking about panel pages asking in the neighborhood of 1/2 that? Is

there any real market backing for Kirby FF panel pages going for

$20K+? Hey, if you put it out and it sells, then so be it. I just

think some of this is wishful thinking from some quarters backed up

with a PR campaign.<

 

The Ditko Spidey splash that you're referring to last summer was a

trade deal Gary. It didn't sell for cash. The highest Ditko Spidey

splash cash sale that I'm aware of is 65K. If we are to believe the

Comiclink Spidey #6 debacle of a few months back, then a Spidey #6

page has already sold for over 40K. I personally sold one Ditko ASM

page for 27K all cash last year. I know dealers that will testify to

Ditko ASM pages that have sold for all cash in the 20K+ range. The

Scorpion page from ASM #29 was 35K. With these prices all over the

map, how do you come with a 'realistic' price?

 

The same thing seems to be happening in the Kirby market. There are

already bonafide sales for Kirby/Sinnott FF pages in the 20K range. A

twice-up page w/Surfer sold in San Diego last summer for 22-25K all

cash. The "Doomday" page sold recently for 20K cash. The FF #57 page

in Heritage with Doom/Surfer and no FF just recently went for over

30K. Many of the better FF #53 pages have sold for all cash in the

teens and upper teens. These sales are known to most dealers(and

collectors too)Is that real market backing for a 20K+ asking price?

Is that unrealistic? You tell me.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=783867&GSub=11327

 

Brunswick, Glen :: FOR SALE

 

 

Title: FANTASTIC FOUR 53 p 12

Artist: Jack Kirby (Penciller)

Artist: Joe Sinnott (Inker)

Media Type: Pen and Ink

Art Type: Interior Page

For Sale Status: 26.5k -- SALE PENDING...

Views: 973

Comments: 4

Added to Site: 7/8/2011

 

Thanks for the re-post.

 

Wow...that is just so very classy. I guess we now have a pattern of behavior. Gotta love it when people do whatever the he!! they want with absolutely no regard for anyone else.

 

With friends like these...

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malvin

malvin

Posted
Posted

 

Mike's a hoarder. A hoarder is someone who keeps stuff from others or makes them pay dearly for it. But there's nothing wrong with that. But there is. But there isn't.

 

Did I get that right?

 

Don't answer. I know you will. I'm getting a drink. Good night.

 

(I know these aren't your words, Nexus. I just didn't want to quote that entire string)

 

If hoarders keep things for themselves, how do they also make others pay dearly? They have to either be "hoarding" or "selling"

 

If you're a hoarder, you hoard.

If you're making someone pay dearly, you're a seller.

 

This is too much for my military intelligence. I'm going to get some jumbo shrimp.

 

I read this thread with interest, but some are really hard to read, so I skim and ignore. I'm glad I wasn't the only one who doesn't really understand what was being said by some people

 

Malvin

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thehumantorch

thehumantorch

Posted
Posted
This situation is not about friendship or business. It's about both. If it were about childhood friendship, only, it would be fair to say that one guy hoarded stuff and cared about the stuff more than his friends. But it's not about friendship, entirely. It's about business, too. Is it fair to say that a guy should share more of the stuff just because he has so much of it, when the "stuff" is worth money that he can use to care for himself, his family and friends. In the end, they signed a contract, and one guy took advantage of a clause that enabled him to get the art below its market value at the time. What about when sellers delay buyers to see if the market value goes up? Does that off buyers? Sure. Has the seller then betrayed a friend?

 

Ah, I see. So you're suggesting one guy had this coming to him because he hoarded all the Romita art and didn't share. The other guy is practically a hero, then. Like Robin Hood (minus the "gives to the poor" part).

 

That is a unique interpretation of the events. Is it OK to say you scare the mess out of me?

 

I didn't come close to saying that one guy had it coming or that the other guy was a hero.

 

Buddy, as far as I can tell, you haven't come close to saying *anything*.

 

But I thank you for doing your part in prolonging this thread, lol!!

 

I get the feeling that to you it's not "anything" unless it agrees with you 100% and that the situation is 100% black and white, one guy evil, other guy innocent victim,

 

I can't understand why you're complicating things. Whether someone was a hoarder, or he bought up most of the Romita art when it was cheap and deprived others of that art really doesn't matter.

 

Mike bought the art at fair prices when anyone could have done the same and he obviously loved it because to this day he still owns much of it. He loaned some to Glen in what appears to be a gesture of friendship and when push comes to shove Glen chose to keep the art and disregard the friendship.

 

Just reading the original posts resurrected by mynameislegion shows just how upset and betrayed Mike felt. It's palpable in every line. And surely if it all boiled down to a misunderstanding and Glen knew how upset his friend was he would say 'sorry' and return the art.

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Ronan Killack

Ronan Killack

Posted
Posted

 

Both parties talked about the art as if it was something they just wanted, aside from its monetary value. And both seem to gloss over how much its monetary value was a factor. So, that puts shades of gray in both arguments. And the only thing truly black and white is the art itself.

 

Most importantly, both parties admit to the original deal being a loan. Glen B. has admitted to that in this string. That is black & white. Somehow, a contract was structured that gave Glen B. the ability to circumvent that original deal and keep the art - in his mind (only), morally and ethically.

 

Rational people can disagree, but there ARE absolutes of right and wrong in this world. Not everything can be made relative. There are hundreds of posts on this topic - both historically and today. The evidence is there. For those who can't see that Glen B. did something immoral and unethical in his dealings with Mike, I guess you're gonna have to find out the hard way. Honestly, that's a bummer on many fronts.

 

- Chris

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comix4fun

comix4fun

Posted
Posted
And surely if it all boiled down to a misunderstanding and Glen knew how upset his friend was he would say 'sorry' and return the art.

 

 

I know Glenn knows how to read and understands the English language. From 1999 forward he's had dozens of emails, message board posts, phone calls and face to face discussions from Mike telling exactly how upset he was about this. There's no way he wasn't 100% clear on how upset Mike was.

 

The closest he has come to saying "sorry" in any of these threads was something along the lines of (paraphrasing) --Sorry you thought I betrayed you. What I did was moral, ethical, legal, and bold. So it sucks that you think I betrayed you. I don't think I did. Have a nice day. --

 

And when you mention "return" the art, I am sure you and I are on the same page in thinking that means return it at no extra cost to Mike and not a 200% to 400% markup, right? That would have been a gesture of good will and mending relationships and karma.

 

 

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jjeanius

jjeanius

Posted
Posted

Actually, from one of Brunswick's original CAF posts:

 

"I have done

the honorable thing, the moral thing and the right thing regarding my deal

with Mike Burkey."

 

So...there you have it! Not only was it FAIR...but he's practically a national hero and a poster child for decency! He doesn't just deserve the art...he also deserves a medal!

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bluechip

bluechip

Posted
Posted

 

Mike's a hoarder. A hoarder is someone who keeps stuff from others or makes them pay dearly for it. But there's nothing wrong with that. But there is. But there isn't.

 

Did I get that right?

 

Don't answer. I know you will. I'm getting a drink. Good night.

 

(I know these aren't your words, Nexus. I just didn't want to quote that entire string)

 

If hoarders keep things for themselves, how do they also make others pay dearly? They have to either be "hoarding" or "selling"

 

If you're a hoarder, you hoard.

If you're making someone pay dearly, you're a seller.

 

This is too much for my military intelligence. I'm going to get some jumbo shrimp.

 

If you parse it hard enough, then along with Jumbo shrimp you can add --

 

Collector dealer.

 

and contracts that say it's both about a loan and a sale.

 

 

The problem with needing everything to be 100% is that you have to disregard things that don't fit into extremes.

 

 

If you don't expect situations or people to be 100% bad or good, you can appreciate, as I do, both Mike and Glen's position and regard them as decent guys who put a lot more time into finding art than most have, and have therefore reaped more reward.

 

My interest in this stems a little from interest in the art world but a bit more from a general interest in the way people form opinions and arguments. This one intrigues me because it's exceptionally easy in this situation to see both sides if one makes even a passing effort to do so.

 

Whether one guy meant it to be so or not, the agreement described itself as both a loan and a sale. And the loan went both ways, too. One guy was loaned art and the other guy was loaned 9K. In the subsequent year, art tripled in value, meaning the guy who got the 9K could've used it a year ago to buy art now worth 27K. The other guy exploited a clause that allowed him to buy the art at 18K. If the first guy used the 9K to buy art then he gained 18K in value on the stuff he bought plus another 9K for the art sold (or if you prefer -- "sold") the previous year. Whereas the second guy now had art worth 27K for which he was only out of pocket 18K.

 

If, at the end of the year,.Mike had shown up at Glen's booth, casually picked up the art and dropped the 9K loan on the table, saying the loan period was up and he was fulfilling his end of the deal. In that case could Glen have complained that he was supposed to have an option to keep the art at 18K. And could he complain that Mike had been able to use the 9K money to buy art now worth 27K, making 18K on the loan and making it so Glen was shut out -- because he lost the chance to buy other art with his 9K and was then denied the option to buy the initial art 18K? If that happened, and Glen wrote lots of emails complaining about it, many civilians would see his side. Now, of course, you can say Mike would never have done it that way. But some are saying that Mike essentially would've had the right to do so.

 

I don't know what the deal was on FF 53 or any other art, but on that ASM deal with that contract, it simply isn't 100% villain and victim.

 

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Khazano

Khazano

Posted
Posted

So...there you have it! Not only was it FAIR...but he's practically a national hero and a poster child for decency! He doesn't just deserve the art...he also deserves a medal!

 

im trying really hard to keep my opinion to myself here... But... lol

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Nexus

Nexus

Posted
Posted

Yes, that's it.

 

This has nothing to do with the sad deal that went south, but it's an interesting side detail.

 

MYNAMEISLEGION copied all the public posts regarding FF #53 art.

 

The first post is a SDCC con report from 1999. Will Gabri-El reports that the "FF #53 complete story" sold for "$45K".

 

The deal was actually for less, in the $30K range.

 

Will was not the buyer nor the seller. He was just passing along news. Someone gave him the inflated "$45K" number to report to the public. Why would they do that?

 

Is that "good for the hobby"?

 

I think this is it...it was posted yesterday.

 

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/comicart-l/message/20605

 

San Diego Con Report...less Byrne debating!

 

Posted By:

willgabri.el@xxxxx.xxxx

Fri Aug 13, 1999 4:54 pm

 

..."FF #53 complete story...$45K!"

 

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/comicart-l/message/33677

 

Re: THE OTHER SIDE OF THE ROMITAMAN DEAL

 

Posted By:

ASTA99@xxxxx.xxx

Tue Dec 7, 1999 4:41 pm

 

At the last San Diego Con Brunswick went in w/ a fellow comicart-l

member to acquire the art to the complete FF 53 story. After the deal

Brunswick decided to keep the art to himself and compensated the partner

some other way. The partner was not happy. Shows you where Brunswick's

ethics lie (or lay), in his case probably lie.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/comicart-l/message/202193

 

A bit of the old Kirby/Sinnott for MLK

 

Posted By:

glenbru62

Sun Jan 16, 2005 8:39 pm

 

In honor of Martin Luther King day Marvel decided to relaunch The

Black Pather series.

 

Continuing with that theme, I've posted the complete original story

to FF 53 on my comicartfans gallery. This is the second appearance

and origin story for Black Panther. Kirby and Sinnott at their

peak. Also updated a number of other galleries if you care to

check 'em out.

 

link:

 

http://outside-affiliatelinksnotallowed.com/68wde

 

Thanks,

Glen

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/comicart-l/message/259358

 

FF 53 COMES HOME. WELCOME BACK - KIRBY ART DAY!

 

Posted By:

glenbru62

Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:30 am

 

A special shout out of thanks to Dan "The Man" Forman. He sold me back the

FF 53 book that I had traded to him a few years back. He didn't have to

offer me first shot but he did. I really appreciate the gesture!

 

I sold a bunch of pages but kept my favorite seven. You can see them on my

CAF:

 

_http://qurls.com?i=2274_ (http://qurls.com?i=2274)

 

IMHO, this is Kirby/Sinnott at their best. I'm happy to get them back!

 

Enjoy!

 

Glen Brunswick

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/comicart-l/message/275602

 

Re: Realistic art pricing?

 

Posted By:

h_kosenkranius

Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:54 pm

 

 

--- In comicart-l@yahoogroups.com, "comicartwrangler"

wrote:

 

> Well, part of my problem Hans is that some of those prices did

indeed 'materialize' there. I mean, does it really make sense that a

Ditko Spidey splash sells for 80-90K this summer and now we're

talking about panel pages asking in the neighborhood of 1/2 that? Is

there any real market backing for Kirby FF panel pages going for

$20K+? Hey, if you put it out and it sells, then so be it. I just

think some of this is wishful thinking from some quarters backed up

with a PR campaign.<

 

The Ditko Spidey splash that you're referring to last summer was a

trade deal Gary. It didn't sell for cash. The highest Ditko Spidey

splash cash sale that I'm aware of is 65K. If we are to believe the

Comiclink Spidey #6 debacle of a few months back, then a Spidey #6

page has already sold for over 40K. I personally sold one Ditko ASM

page for 27K all cash last year. I know dealers that will testify to

Ditko ASM pages that have sold for all cash in the 20K+ range. The

Scorpion page from ASM #29 was 35K. With these prices all over the

map, how do you come with a 'realistic' price?

 

The same thing seems to be happening in the Kirby market. There are

already bonafide sales for Kirby/Sinnott FF pages in the 20K range. A

twice-up page w/Surfer sold in San Diego last summer for 22-25K all

cash. The "Doomday" page sold recently for 20K cash. The FF #57 page

in Heritage with Doom/Surfer and no FF just recently went for over

30K. Many of the better FF #53 pages have sold for all cash in the

teens and upper teens. These sales are known to most dealers(and

collectors too)Is that real market backing for a 20K+ asking price?

Is that unrealistic? You tell me.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=783867&GSub=11327

 

Brunswick, Glen :: FOR SALE

 

 

Title: FANTASTIC FOUR 53 p 12

Artist: Jack Kirby (Penciller)

Artist: Joe Sinnott (Inker)

Media Type: Pen and Ink

Art Type: Interior Page

For Sale Status: 26.5k -- SALE PENDING...

Views: 973

Comments: 4

Added to Site: 7/8/2011

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thehumantorch

thehumantorch

Posted
Posted
And surely if it all boiled down to a misunderstanding and Glen knew how upset his friend was he would say 'sorry' and return the art.

 

 

I know Glenn knows how to read and understands the English language. From 1999 forward he's had dozens of emails, message board posts, phone calls and face to face discussions from Mike telling exactly how upset he was about this. There's no way he wasn't 100% clear on how upset Mike was.

 

The closest he has come to saying "sorry" in any of these threads was something along the lines of (paraphrasing) --Sorry you thought I betrayed you. What I did was moral, ethical, legal, and bold. So it sucks that you think I betrayed you. I don't think I did. Have a nice day. --

 

And when you mention "return" the art, I am sure you and I are on the same page in thinking that means return it at no extra cost to Mike and not a 200% to 400% markup, right? That would have been a gesture of good will and mending relationships and karma.

 

 

Yes, if Glen thought the contract was an offer to sell the art for $16,000 and he did so fair enough, but once he read Mike's posts and understood the $16,000 was just to protect Mike in case of damage or loss, the art should have been returned. Essentially everything should be restored as if the loan never took place.

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Bird

Bird

Posted
Posted

In 2015 this thread will still be one of the first 5 you see when you log on to the boards. Seances will be held so that people who have died can get one more word in. In 2020 there will be no computer screen but that thing in your eye will show this thread with new posts every 0.00006354207 seconds. In 2045 there will be very little actual physical paper, and therefore OA, left on the planet. The world will be divided up into two main factions: Burkeys, who number in the majority and hoard their goods for survival, and the GlenBrus, less numerous but dauntingly determined (one might even say bold) and who take what they need or want and compensate with other less desirable forms of currency/trade. Their struggle will never end, although the leaders of the factions meet secretly on a regular basis to exchange goods and ASM 15 pages..

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Catwoman_Fan

Catwoman_Fan

Posted
Posted
In 2015 this thread will still be one of the first 5 you see when you log on to the boards. Seances will be held so that people who have died can get one more word in. In 2020 there will be no computer screen but that thing in your eye will show this thread with new posts every 0.00006354207 seconds. In 2045 there will be very little actual physical paper, and therefore OA, left on the planet. The world will be divided up into two main factions: Burkeys, who number in the majority and hoard their goods for survival, and the GlenBrus, less numerous but dauntingly determined (one might even say bold) and who take what they need or want and compensate with other less desirable forms of currency/trade. Their struggle will never end, although the leaders of the factions meet secretly on a regular basis to exchange goods and ASM 15 pages..

 

:signfunny:

 

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malvin

malvin

Posted
Posted
In 2015 this thread will still be one of the first 5 you see when you log on to the boards. Seances will be held so that people who have died can get one more word in. In 2020 there will be no computer screen but that thing in your eye will show this thread with new posts every 0.00006354207 seconds. In 2045 there will be very little actual physical paper, and therefore OA, left on the planet. The world will be divided up into two main factions: Burkeys, who number in the majority and hoard their goods for survival, and the GlenBrus, less numerous but dauntingly determined (one might even say bold) and who take what they need or want and compensate with other less desirable forms of currency/trade. Their struggle will never end, although the leaders of the factions meet secretly on a regular basis to exchange goods and ASM 15 pages..

 

Its not even 2015 yet and this is no longer in the top 5, what other predictions will fall through.

 

Is this a sign of the Zombie Apocalypse?

 

Malvin

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batman_fan

batman_fan

Posted
Posted
In 2015 this thread will still be one of the first 5 you see when you log on to the boards. Seances will be held so that people who have died can get one more word in. In 2020 there will be no computer screen but that thing in your eye will show this thread with new posts every 0.00006354207 seconds. In 2045 there will be very little actual physical paper, and therefore OA, left on the planet. The world will be divided up into two main factions: Burkeys, who number in the majority and hoard their goods for survival, and the GlenBrus, less numerous but dauntingly determined (one might even say bold) and who take what they need or want and compensate with other less desirable forms of currency/trade. Their struggle will never end, although the leaders of the factions meet secretly on a regular basis to exchange goods and ASM 15 pages..

 

Its not even 2015 yet and this is no longer in the top 5, what other predictions will fall through.

 

Is this a sign of the Zombie Apocalypse?

 

Malvin

 

Please dear god tell me monkeys will be ruling the world :wishluck:

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