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How is this possible?

Started by Comic Blessing,

16 posts in this topic

Comic Blessing

Comic Blessing

Posted
Posted

I used to be a professional gold and silver age comic book dealer, setting up at conventions in the northeast throughout the 1990s, and in my time I was considered a very strict grader. When CGC first came into existence I sent them about 50 comics and found that usually I was right on the money but in some instances they seemed even too strict for my standards. I took a hiatus from comics for the last 12 years or so and am just now getting back into the market. When I look at some graded books now, it seems like grading standards from CGC have become much less stringent than when I first sent stuff in 13-14 years ago. For example, I was just looking at comiclink's auctions and saw this item (image included below). How can this comic be a VG+ 4.5 with the huge piece out of the cover????? Has CGC gotten more lenient as time has gone by? Is there something about the way they determine a grade that allows such a huge issue to still be above G or G/VG? I would have graded this comic a G/VG at best with that huge piece out. Thoughts?

 

RAD3225E2012102_14113.jpg

 

 

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reddwarf666222

reddwarf666222

Posted
Posted
That is an old label book, which was graded some time ago. If you are using this as a recent example of how CGC's grading standards have changed, it is not a great candidate.

At what number did they switch over to the new label because that is a pretty high number and I've got SS's lower than that number. I agree it does not deserve a 4.5, but the rest of the book from the picture looks great. Maybe Daniel sneaked in and graded this issue.

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TheLiamSturgess

TheLiamSturgess

Posted
Posted
That is an old label book, which was graded some time ago. If you are using this as a recent example of how CGC's grading standards have changed, it is not a great candidate.

At what number did they switch over to the new label because that is a pretty high number and I've got SS's lower than that number. I agree it does not deserve a 4.5, but the rest of the book from the picture looks great. Maybe Daniel sneaked in and graded this issue.

 

If you're referring to the serial numbers, I don't think those hold any weight as to when they were graded.

 

The old label books stopped in 2003 (I believe) and this, like Joey said, is not an example of recent grading.

 

As for the reasoning behind the grade, I'd say the book probably would have received around a 9.0 or 8.5 if not for the piece missing. The missing piece was probably the only thing that brought it that low.

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jimjum12

jimjum12

Posted
Posted
That is an old label book, which was graded some time ago. If you are using this as a recent example of how CGC's grading standards have changed, it is not a great candidate.

At what number did they switch over to the new label because that is a pretty high number and I've got SS's lower than that number. I agree it does not deserve a 4.5, but the rest of the book from the picture looks great. Maybe Daniel sneaked in and graded this issue.

 

If you're referring to the serial numbers, I don't think those hold any weight as to when they were graded.

 

The old label books stopped in 2003 (I believe) and this, like Joey said, is not an example of recent grading.

 

As for the reasoning behind the grade, I'd say the book probably would have received around a 9.0 or 8.5 if not for the piece missing. The missing piece was probably the only thing that brought it that low.

 

....not sure of the details, but books do end up with the new label while retaining an earlier submission serial number. Doug's 9.6 FF 1 was one example.....third book ever graded and retained the same serial number after a resub and upgrade. The serial numbers DO indicate, to a degree, when the book was graded.....whether old label OR new label. GOD BLESS.....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

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Boozad

Boozad

Posted
Posted

I've always presumed books were assigned a new cert number on a resub considering once the book is cracked it is a completely new submission. I also presumed the book became 'anonymous' and completely detached from its original cert number so as to maintain the integrity of independent third party grading.

 

Or am I reading too much into that?

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Rawhide

Rawhide

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Posted
I've always presumed books were assigned a new cert number on a resub considering once the book is cracked it is a completely new submission. I also presumed the book became 'anonymous' and completely detached from its original cert number so as to maintain the integrity of independent third party grading.

 

Or am I reading too much into that?

 

If a new cert number is issued, do they remove the old cert number from the census? (To keep the same book from showing up twice?)

 

 

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FlyingDonut

FlyingDonut

Posted
Posted
I used to be a professional gold and silver age comic book dealer, setting up at conventions in the northeast throughout the 1990s, and in my time I was considered a very strict grader. When CGC first came into existence I sent them about 50 comics and found that usually I was right on the money but in some instances they seemed even too strict for my standards. I took a hiatus from comics for the last 12 years or so and am just now getting back into the market. When I look at some graded books now, it seems like grading standards from CGC have become much less stringent than when I first sent stuff in 13-14 years ago. For example, I was just looking at comiclink's auctions and saw this item (image included below). How can this comic be a VG+ 4.5 with the huge piece out of the cover????? Has CGC gotten more lenient as time has gone by? Is there something about the way they determine a grade that allows such a huge issue to still be above G or G/VG? I would have graded this comic a G/VG at best with that huge piece out. Thoughts?

 

RAD3225E2012102_14113.jpg

 

 

That's an old label book, so it had to have been graded prior to July, 2003.

 

If you'd like some TREMENDOUS reading, here you go.

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phampton1737

phampton1737

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Hi, Matt:

 

You ask a fair and obvious question. To be clear, I should say that I'm here because I love comic books, not necessarily the CGC. I fully recognize the benefits the Corporation has brought to the industry, in terms of restoration check and a generally accepted standard of grading, but also feel that its ideals of absolute consistency and accuracy in grading, fully equal treatment of books submitted by all comers, and complete transparency in the whole process, are only that. Ideals.

 

To give them the benefit of the doubt, they may indeed be making a good faith effort. (I really cannot say.) And any who would "knee jerk" in defense, I ask to please chill. No person, company, or even country need be faulted for failing to live up "to the letter" of its ideals, so long as they are making their best effort.

 

Also, a colleague has asked a rather simple complex question, that we would all do well to consider. It is we, and none other, that will either keep the CGC honest, or allow ourselves to submit to an arbitrary and potentially unchecked power standing between us, and the comic books that are our passion. We all share a common interest in keeping the hobby friendly, safe, and strong. And certainly, keeping the grading process as fair as may be humanly possible.

 

We all have personal experience with the CGC having from time to time fallen short on one or the other (or all) of the above, and I'm sure I'm not alone in having found the costs of that lesson high, in the extreme. To the extent you don't know what I'm talking about, you are either simply not paying attention, or exercising a convenient willful blindness.

 

Just about everyone on this forum (quite literally) knows more about the practical functioning of the CGC than do I, and that's fine with me. Life is short, and we make our choices. But nearly any of them would tell you that the CGC has been known to go through "cycles" of leniency and strictness in grading, the most obvious such distinction of note being that between "old label," and those to follow. Fact of life.

 

I write less to offer my personal opinion as to whether or not this may be a bad thing, than to try and start addressing Matt's important question. I hope that the dialogue may continue in the positive spirit that drew us all together here, in the first place. And, stick to the point.

 

Thanks for listening..

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