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First Hulk vs Thing?

Started by mackenzie999,

116 posts in this topic

mackenzie999

mackenzie999

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Apparently I ruffled some feathers by disturbing the tumbleweeds blowing through a dusty sales thread, and I've been asked to continue this here.

 

At issue is whether or not the Thing and Hulk first battled in FF12 or FF25. This is getting into real Comicbook Guy nitpicky territory, but since I'm just waiting around for an animation to finish rendering, why not?

 

According to CGC, it was FF25, but according to me, the Marvel wiki, and these guys, it was FF12.

 

But CGC never make mistakes, right?

 

I last owned a copy of FF12 around 1980 so it's been a while, but I was sure Hulk & Benjy didn't just sit around drinking coffee, so I looked it up and found this description:

 

FANTASTIC FOUR #12 (1962)

Although readers went into a frenzy requesting that the Hulk and Thing slug it out, Stan Lee and Jack Kirby came up short in their first response to reader demand. This issue remains an absolute classic because it represents the very first time both man-monsters meet up and begins their historic rivalry. But it's a little disappointing that the fight itself didn't live up to the hype as it was short-lived and uneventful.

 

When the "Gravage" Hulk meets up with the Thing and the rest of the Fantastic Four in the underground catacombs beneath the desert testing area, the Hulk will surprise Thing and punch him down. While the Hulk makes his way out of the caverns, he separates the team. But the Fantastic Four will make it to the surface and regroup. While the Hulk engages them again, he takes out Sue, Johnny and Reed with a thunderclap. Now the Thing comes in and attacks with a haymaker that floors the Green Goliath. The Hulk instantly recovers and they lock up until the Hulk is knocked unconscious by Karl Korts ray that blasts him in the back of the head. RESULT: DRAW

 

Hero-Envy-thingvhulkpow.jpg

 

So...while it may not have been as epic as FF25, was it not still a fight? Perhaps this falls into Hulk 180 vs 181 territory, but I say CGC is wrong in this case.

God, I can't believe I just bothered with all this. I just enjoy a challenge I guess.

 

And to the dude selling the 25, I still feel the information I posted was relevant to a sales thread (if someone listed an FF6 as the first appearance of Dr. Doom, would that fly?), but I do apologize for not PM'ing first. No hard feelings on my part. (thumbs u

 

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mackenzie999

mackenzie999

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I believe the fight in 12 is classified as a skirmish and therefore not recognized as 1st. Kind of like the hulk 180 and 181 debate.

 

I'm sorry, I didn't quite get that...you believe the what in 12 is classified as a skirmish?

 

That being said...renders done and now I have to take my son to hockey. If you really need to continue this it will be a one-sided debate for a while.

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Mike's Rack

Mike's Rack

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Ah I love being a nerd, not only do we get to split these hairs, getting the right answer is akin to Aquinas debating the essence of the neuminal. I say it's 12, why? The cover is much cooler, you know Hulk is ready to sucker punch Thing back to Yancy Street. As to the sales thread, controversy is a great marketing tool. First battle or not, your 25 is a great book GLWTS.

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dscott

dscott

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I believe the fight in 12 is classified as a skirmish and therefore not recognized as 1st. Kind of like the hulk 180 and 181 debate.

 

I'm sorry, I didn't quite get that...you believe the what in 12 is classified as a skirmish?

 

That being said...renders done and now I have to take my son to hockey. If you really need to continue this it will be a one-sided debate for a while.

 

Cool so we are nit-picking here, at least now I know what type of discussion this is. (thumbs u

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dscott

dscott

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Ah I love being a nerd, not only do we get to split these hairs, getting the right answer is akin to Aquinas debating the essence of the neuminal. I say it's 12, why? The cover is much cooler, you know Hulk is ready to sucker punch Thing back to Yancy Street. As to the sales thread, controversy is a great marketing tool. First battle or not, your 25 is a great book GLWTS.

 

Thanks it's actually an under copy. My keeper is here.

 

SKMBT_C25312101616360_0005.jpg

 

Based off this slab and the description given in Overstreet I labeled ff 25 as the 1st.

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dscott

dscott

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I believe the fight in 12 is classified as a skirmish and therefore not recognized as 1st. Kind of like the hulk 180 and 181 debate.

 

I'm sorry, I didn't quite get that...you believe the what in 12 is classified as a skirmish?

 

That being said...renders done and now I have to take my son to hockey. If you really need to continue this it will be a one-sided debate for a while.

 

I believe the 1st fight in 12 is classified as a skirmish. To answer your question. It was not classified as a battle which is what you asked. Therefore I would say that 25 is the first battle.

 

At issue is whether or not the Thing and Hulk first battled in FF12 or FF25.

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dscott

dscott

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Obviously FF#12 is the first Hulk Thing fight. Yes the fight in #25-26 is more epic but that doesn't make it first.

I thought it was well known that F.F.4 #12 was the first Hulk/Thing fight. (shrug)

 

hm I always went with 25 based on the fact that the battle lasts 1.5 books instead of the 1 page. Fight yes, but the true 1st Thing vs Hulk? Not to me.

 

Of course part of that may be the fact that Overstreet claims that 25 is the 1st also. Having been marketed that way for so long maybe that explains it?

 

I feel that the discussion is very similar to someone claiming that Hulk 181 is the 1st Wolverine and having some call them out and say that actually 180 is 1st.

 

Both books have merits to be described as such.

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dgarthwaite-migration

dgarthwaite-migration

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Pssst! Overstreet has been known to list things incorrectly on purpose. When Jon Warren was over the Wizard price guide, he made it a point to collect cover scans of the last issues in a series because he knew Overstreet would incorrectly reference the last issue. The Four Color comic listings would sometimes incorrectly reference the contents in an issue.

Why? The theory was that they wanted to know if people were copying their data.

 

DG

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dscott

dscott

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Pssst! Overstreet has been known to list things incorrectly on purpose. When Jon Warren was over the Wizard price guide, he made it a point to collect cover scans of the last issues in a series because he knew Overstreet would incorrectly reference the last issue. The Four Color comic listings would sometimes incorrectly reference the contents in an issue.

Why? The theory was that they wanted to know if people were copying their data.

 

DG

 

hm interesting take on that. I guess they know now that CGC is copying their data? (shrug)

 

Anyways the great thing about comics is I guess we all have our own view point on it. To me the 1st battle will always be #25 not just because CGC and Overstreet both say that it is. But because the actual fist slugging lasted 90% of the book and kept up half way through issue #26. It was much more of a battle in every way compared to issue #12. I dont know how if you have read both you can look at them and honestly even compare the two as the same.

 

In issue #12 the Hulk sucker punches the Thing and then has a breif moment where him and the Thing share what two/three blows tops? before declaring it a draw and moving on.

 

In Issue #25 they pound on each other over and over. Ben Grimm literally puts every ounce of himself into the fight refusing to accept defeat at the hands of the Hulk even though he is out classed in strength. To me this is the issue that set up all the great aspects of the feud.

 

 

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shadroch

shadroch

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I look at FF 12 as the first Hulk/FF fight, and FF25/26 as the classic SA fight issues. CGC has been known to wrong in the past, as has Overstreet.

Its been years since I actually read FF 25/26 but isn't there a referencein it to Ben wanting a rematch?

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dscott

dscott

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I look at FF 12 as the first Hulk/FF fight, and FF25/26 as the classic SA fight issues. CGC has been known to wrong in the past, as has Overstreet.

Its been years since I actually read FF 25/26 but isn't there a referencein it to Ben wanting a rematch?

 

hm maybe ill let you know tomorrow as I plan to reread both issues tonight to get a fresh perspective on the discussion.

 

As I stated before though I listed my sale as I did based on CGC and Overstreet. As well as past sales made to me by other reputable dealers in the Silver Age community. Every time I have bought a #25 its always been marketed as the 1st battle. I do find this topic interesting though and would like to continue the discussion further which is one of the reasons I plan a reread tonight. (thumbs u

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