BarryAllen Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 (edited) For the record, I have no problems with GPA, nor do I feel it's "wrong." It may be off on certain books but it's a seller's responsibility to know that. If they do not, the market will take advantage of their mispricings. Pretty simple really... It is only possible for the market to take advantage of mis-pricings if mis-information is all that is available (i.e. versus reporting the "adjusted sales values"). In this scenario, if you feel a price is too low or high and get the desired result in your deal; it would benefit you to report the sale to GPA. This way the sale becomes record in the tool of choice and enables future deals to deliver that value (up or down). Otherwise it appears that one could sell a buyer at a higher than reported price based on their "retailer knowledge of mis-pricing" and then turn around and use that tool to pay someone else the lower listed price for a another copy... Of course I am definitely not accusing anyone of doing that, but it is a scenario that is not hard to assume would play out... Edited June 14, 2013 by rfoiii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VintageComics Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Or after running all over the country buying and selling comics, answering emails, shipping, doing book keeping and squeezing in all the other important things (like sounding cheery when they answer the phone and of course family ) they just can't be bothered to squeeze another "must do" into their day. Not sure if this is a joke or not... If so, I agree. If not, I don't buy the "I'm to busy to do -insert thing-" argument. Everyone is too busy in one way or another. Asking every dealer to report to GPA is like some random board members asking you to take the time to turn someone into law enforcement every time you see them cross over a yellow painted strip in a parking lot. There are limitations to what is necessary and what is realistic. GPA captures the market reasonably well with all of the inputs it currently has. Would I like it to be better? I'm probably GPA's largest proponent - of course I would - but I'm also too busy (this is not a joke) to put another thing on my plate to do. When I'm not busy I like to have some "me time". Sorry if you don't think people should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryAllen Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Or after running all over the country buying and selling comics, answering emails, shipping, doing book keeping and squeezing in all the other important things (like sounding cheery when they answer the phone and of course family ) they just can't be bothered to squeeze another "must do" into their day. Not sure if this is a joke or not... If so, I agree. If not, I don't buy the "I'm to busy to do -insert thing-" argument. Everyone is too busy in one way or another. Asking every dealer to report to GPA is like some random board members asking you to take the time to turn someone into law enforcement every time you see them cross over a yellow painted strip in a parking lot. There are limitations to what is necessary and what is realistic. GPA captures the market reasonably well with all of the inputs it currently has. Would I like it to be better? I'm probably GPA's largest proponent - of course I would - but I'm also too busy (this is not a joke) to put another thing on my plate to do. When I'm not busy I like to have some "me time". Sorry if you don't think people should. I completely agree that it wouldn't be productive for every deal to be reported. I was only proposing it would be better for "dealers" to report their pricing, particularly in scenarios where they feel the GPA price does not reflect their assigned proper value. To my original point, I am stating that it isn't a valid argument to say in one breath that GPA is not accurate and that you choose not report to GPA in the next. Don't get me wrong about the busy part. You certainly deserve personal time, everyone does. My point was that no one can argue about your time but you and that many people make that statement. Time is about choices and reporting to GPA appears to fall low on your list of priorities. You choose not to report to GPA and that is fine, but you can't blame it on not having enough time; it just isn't important enough to you. No judgement here, you can do what you want with your time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.tor Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 The problem In your assumption is that market pricing should be based on gpa. That is an erroneous application. Gpa simply collects and farms public sales data from limited sources but it is only a fraction of sales that Happen. Researching and studying market dynamics allow for some to be better marketers than others. Only someone who is uninformed, lazy or naive would totally rely on gpa for pricing. Just some food for thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgold22 Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 Hi all, New here, been reading the thread... Just a thought.. Is it possible that GPA could compensate dealers for their sales information? Perhaps help subsidize the information flow... If so... time spent setting up might be worthwhile. This would help GPA would become more accurate, attract more paying members, make more money... etc. Sort of a win-win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.tor Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 I don't use gpa. Don't subscribe to it. Yet I feel I know my market as good as anyone (many would say better). Gpa is such a limited tool , that while it provides public info in a nice format, it really shouldn't be relied on too much Knowing and understanding market dynamics...doing your homework...that is how successful folks /sellers operate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryAllen Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 The problem In your assumption is that market pricing should be based on gpa. That is an erroneous application. Gpa simply collects and farms public sales data from limited sources but it is only a fraction of sales that Happen. Researching and studying market dynamics allow for some to be better marketers than others. Only someone who is uninformed, lazy or naive would totally rely on gpa for pricing. Just some food for thought Totally agree that more than GPA is required to fully understanding marketplace pricing. My original point was that I do not agree with some of the posted positions. People argue that GPA is inaccurate and at the same time confirm they willingly do not submit sales (i.e. contribute to its ongoing inaccuracy). Then, admit that they only use it as an advantage. I never stated that it was the only marketplace pricing too and agree that it far from the end all be all. You are clearly a very experienced buyer and seller of comics as evidenced by your posted sales and major contributions to this site. Outside of GPA, what tools do you use to determine pricing (buyer or seller)? While there is more than GPA, to my knowledge there are still only a few widely available. What are the uniformed, lazy or naive people missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryAllen Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 I don't use gpa. Don't subscribe to it. Yet I feel I know my market as good as anyone (many would say better). Gpa is such a limited tool , that while it provides public info in a nice format, it really shouldn't be relied on too much Knowing and understanding market dynamics...doing your homework...that is how successful folks /sellers operate. Please elaborate on "doing your homework." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.tor Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 I don't use gpa. Don't subscribe to it. Yet I feel I know my market as good as anyone (many would say better). Gpa is such a limited tool , that while it provides public info in a nice format, it really shouldn't be relied on too much Knowing and understanding market dynamics...doing your homework...that is how successful folks /sellers operate. Please elaborate on "doing your homework." afraid there is no shortcut and no elaboration forthcoming. Most is common sense. There are no trade secrets Gpa by definition is basically 100% accurate. It simply reports past sales. That said it could be argued that since books rarely sell for identical amounts , gpa is rarely indicative of future pricing that is not its function and folks that Use it solely for that are the "lazy" (just for lack of more appropriate term). I think it is good for showing trends but gpa is "hindsight" and shoukd not be expected to accurately show "current". Market moves to fast and in too many arenas gpa is not part of (conventions, private sales, board sales, raw sales. Etc etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryAllen Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 I don't use gpa. Don't subscribe to it. Yet I feel I know my market as good as anyone (many would say better). Gpa is such a limited tool , that while it provides public info in a nice format, it really shouldn't be relied on too much Knowing and understanding market dynamics...doing your homework...that is how successful folks /sellers operate. Please elaborate on "doing your homework." afraid there is no shortcut and no elaboration forthcoming. Most is common sense. There are no trade secrets Gpa by definition is basically 100% accurate. It simply reports past sales. That said it could be argued that since books rarely sell for identical amounts , gpa is rarely indicative of future pricing that is not its function and folks that Use it solely for that are the "lazy" (just for lack of more appropriate term). I think it is good for showing trends but gpa is "hindsight" and shoukd not be expected to accurately show "current". Market moves to fast and in too many arenas gpa is not part of (conventions, private sales, board sales, raw sales. Etc etc) Makes sense, thank you for elaborating. Basically, unless you are a dealer, attending multiple conventions or conducting/viewing multiple private sales - you would be unable to understand the marketplace as a whole. While I agree that is accurate, it does make the situation difficult for a buyers. In this instance relying on all sources of information at your disposal (GPA, OSPG, etc) and tracking the forums as best as possible are your only choices. Oh well, that's the breaks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgold22 Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 For the average collector who buys the majority of books from home, it's nice to see approximately how many books have sold and when... PQ and all, and for what price - only to use as a basis for making a decision. It seems easier than sifting through ten different websites, calling ten different dealers, talking to other collectors and going to 6 cons a year to get a feel for prices. I'm aware that we don't live in a perfect world so not everyone will report, but GPA's business is selling info and the more accurate the better. I'm interested to know... as a private dealer, if GPA paid you every month, would you report sales info to them? I get that it takes time and energy to report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.tor Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 All markets eventually reach an equilibrium. By definition money is made when the market is not in equilibrium , correct? A dealer or reseller is in business to make money. By definition they must take advantage of the discrepancies in order to achieve that (and make no mistake i am not talking about manipulation etc , but through hard work). Buyers , by definition pay a premium (profit) for the ability to purchase a product they are otherwise unable to obtain/produce themselves The more savy the buyer the better purchase they can make (and gpa is one tool a buyer can use). But there is nothing that entitles a buyer to a fair market...they must help create one. Our market dictates what is FMv and what is not. Dishonest or manipulative sellers can alter a d affect the market but a correction generally (and quickly ) takes place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Columbia Comics Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 I'm interested to know... as a private dealer, if GPA paid you every month, would you report sales info to them? Nope...would take too long for the small compensation I'd be offered. Now I'm not a big dealer mind you, but I wouldn't do it... Call me lazy...say I abuse the system...whatever. I would actually agree that I'm lazy and have better things to do... It's unfair for the marketplace to rely on dealers to help them make informed decisions. Look at Wall Street....its not the analysts, market makers, researchers, etc...job to put the information out there so others can profit from it. They do it for themselves and their clients/firms. Same thing applies here....like Rick said, do the homework and you'll be fine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryAllen Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 All markets eventually reach an equilibrium. By definition money is made when the market is not in equilibrium , correct? A dealer or reseller is in business to make money. By definition they must take advantage of the discrepancies in order to achieve that (and make no mistake i am not talking about manipulation etc , but through hard work). Buyers , by definition pay a premium (profit) for the ability to purchase a product they are otherwise unable to obtain/produce themselves The more savy the buyer the better purchase they can make (and gpa is one tool a buyer can use). But there is nothing that entitles a buyer to a fair market...they must help create one. Our market dictates what is FMv and what is not. Dishonest or manipulative sellers can alter a d affect the market but a correction generally (and quickly ) takes place. See, you have your fair share of "textbook elucidation" as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.tor Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 For the average collector who buys the majority of books from home, it's nice to see approximately how many books have sold and when... PQ and all, and for what price - only to use as a basis for making a decision. It seems easier than sifting through ten different websites, calling ten different dealers, talking to other collectors and going to 6 cons a year to get a feel for prices. I'm aware that we don't live in a perfect world so not everyone will report, but GPA's business is selling info and the more accurate the better. I'm interested to know... as a private dealer, if GPA paid you every month, would you report sales info to them? I get that it takes time and energy to report. keep in mind I was willing to report for free. But time is "money" and payment for info I could provide would certainly have a motivating effect on me. Not sure if it would tip the scales but maybe. Then again I answer 100s and 100s of pricing / market value questions every month ...for free. Because I am ok sharing my thoughts. But I will admit, of late I have been getting so many inquiries that it almost feels like I should be charging, based on the amount of time it takes not only to answer but based on the amount of time and effort I have spent acquiring the info to make market analysis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryAllen Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 For the average collector who buys the majority of books from home, it's nice to see approximately how many books have sold and when... PQ and all, and for what price - only to use as a basis for making a decision. It seems easier than sifting through ten different websites, calling ten different dealers, talking to other collectors and going to 6 cons a year to get a feel for prices. I'm aware that we don't live in a perfect world so not everyone will report, but GPA's business is selling info and the more accurate the better. I'm interested to know... as a private dealer, if GPA paid you every month, would you report sales info to them? I get that it takes time and energy to report. keep in mind I was willing to report for free. But time is "money" and payment for info I could provide would certainly have a motivating effect on me. Not sure if it would tip the scales but maybe. Then again I answer 100s and 100s of pricing / market value questions every month ...for free. Because I am ok sharing my thoughts. But I will admit, of late I have been getting so many inquiries that it almost feels like I should be charging, based on the amount of time it takes not only to answer but based on the amount of time and effort I have spent acquiring the info to make market analysis Happy to pay for your advice if we can apply some of the cash towards a future purchase! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.tor Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 All markets eventually reach an equilibrium. By definition money is made when the market is not in equilibrium , correct? A dealer or reseller is in business to make money. By definition they must take advantage of the discrepancies in order to achieve that (and make no mistake i am not talking about manipulation etc , but through hard work). Buyers , by definition pay a premium (profit) for the ability to purchase a product they are otherwise unable to obtain/produce themselves The more savy the buyer the better purchase they can make (and gpa is one tool a buyer can use). But there is nothing that entitles a buyer to a fair market...they must help create one. Our market dictates what is FMv and what is not. Dishonest or manipulative sellers can alter a d affect the market but a correction generally (and quickly ) takes place. See, you have your fair share of "textbook elucidation" as well. im old I got my bsba in finance an economics so long ago I practically could have been a dinner guest of keyne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.tor Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 For the average collector who buys the majority of books from home, it's nice to see approximately how many books have sold and when... PQ and all, and for what price - only to use as a basis for making a decision. It seems easier than sifting through ten different websites, calling ten different dealers, talking to other collectors and going to 6 cons a year to get a feel for prices. I'm aware that we don't live in a perfect world so not everyone will report, but GPA's business is selling info and the more accurate the better. I'm interested to know... as a private dealer, if GPA paid you every month, would you report sales info to them? I get that it takes time and energy to report. keep in mind I was willing to report for free. But time is "money" and payment for info I could provide would certainly have a motivating effect on me. Not sure if it would tip the scales but maybe. Then again I answer 100s and 100s of pricing / market value questions every month ...for free. Because I am ok sharing my thoughts. But I will admit, of late I have been getting so many inquiries that it almost feels like I should be charging, based on the amount of time it takes not only to answer but based on the amount of time and effort I have spent acquiring the info to make market analysis Happy to pay for your advice if we can apply some of the cash towards a future purchase! out of the box thinking. I like it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryAllen Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 All markets eventually reach an equilibrium. By definition money is made when the market is not in equilibrium , correct? A dealer or reseller is in business to make money. By definition they must take advantage of the discrepancies in order to achieve that (and make no mistake i am not talking about manipulation etc , but through hard work). Buyers , by definition pay a premium (profit) for the ability to purchase a product they are otherwise unable to obtain/produce themselves The more savy the buyer the better purchase they can make (and gpa is one tool a buyer can use). But there is nothing that entitles a buyer to a fair market...they must help create one. Our market dictates what is FMv and what is not. Dishonest or manipulative sellers can alter a d affect the market but a correction generally (and quickly ) takes place. See, you have your fair share of "textbook elucidation" as well. im old I got my bsba in finance an economics so long ago I practically could have been a dinner guest of keyne Nothing makes me happier than discussing market dynamics of comics with someone who can articulate economic principles and reference Keyne! Nerd plus Nerd = Nerdvana! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.tor Posted June 14, 2013 Share Posted June 14, 2013 All markets eventually reach an equilibrium. By definition money is made when the market is not in equilibrium , correct? A dealer or reseller is in business to make money. By definition they must take advantage of the discrepancies in order to achieve that (and make no mistake i am not talking about manipulation etc , but through hard work). Buyers , by definition pay a premium (profit) for the ability to purchase a product they are otherwise unable to obtain/produce themselves The more savy the buyer the better purchase they can make (and gpa is one tool a buyer can use). But there is nothing that entitles a buyer to a fair market...they must help create one. Our market dictates what is FMv and what is not. Dishonest or manipulative sellers can alter a d affect the market but a correction generally (and quickly ) takes place. See, you have your fair share of "textbook elucidation" as well. im old I got my bsba in finance an economics so long ago I practically could have been a dinner guest of keyne Nothing makes me happier than discussing market dynamics of comics with someone who can articulate economic principles and reference Keyne! Nerd plus Nerd = Nerdvana! im glad you appreciate that. I am credited with some "insight" on a macro Econ book my professor mark rush wrote back in the 80s.. He told me I was his favorite t.a. But he might have just been sweet on me hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
