Certified Collectibles Group (CCG) Acquires Classics Incorporated 3 3

[Old Fashion PB and J]

John, you are not remotely close to impartial on this matter.

Nor are you, Pat (thumbs u

I get books pressed, use cgc services. Have inquired to Kenny at classics inc. about some resto work. So not being anti pressing, and not close to any of the pressing companies, how is this true?

[COI]

Potential ways for their to be a conflict of interest that results in something shady, depending on your amount of tinfoil:

 

1. CGC actively undergrades books which do not get CI services first.

2. CGC actively overgrades books which do get CI services first.

3. CGC actively ignores borderline restoration after CI performs resto removal.

 

Whether you think any of these will happen depends on the level of trust you have in CGC. Anyone who doesn't see that CCG has a financial incentive, through its ownership of both CGC and CI, is fooling themselves. It may not happen but it appears to be a conflict of interest. That erodes trust in the product of CGC.

 

This is indeed the problem. Luckily, it'll take a majority of the community about a month to forget these concerns.

[NewWorldOrder]

For those who genuinely can't see how there can be a conflict of interest in the move, let me run through a couple of scenarios which should be obvious to most.

 

CGC are grading a high value book and would give it an 8.5 but grade it particularly harshly for some non colour breaking creases so give it an 8.0 or maybe 7.5. BINGO, it can be passed straight over to Matt Nelson to iron out those creases and then straight back for another submission and end up where it should've been at anyway.

 

A book is passed onto Matt Nelson for pressing before submission and he estimates the grade it will get after as a 9.2. The book is pressed and submitted and only comes back as an 8.5 which brings much dissatisfaction from the owner of the comic. This dissatisfaction can be avoided by CGC not going to hard on this book when grading.

 

Now I'm not saying that this is going to happen but the only guarantee that it won't happen is....... um, actually there isn't one. It's all down to trust which is why conflicts of interest shouldn't be allowed to happen.

 

The graders do not have the time or care to be bothered what that scenario I can assure you. They will grade as per usual and grade the non-color breaking defects the same as every other day in the CGC factory of monotony.

 

Still maybe they will now have instead of a pre-grader CGC should implement a pre-presser that looks every book prior to grading for maximum potential sales up-grade phone call to the customer.

[mschmidt]

John, you are not remotely close to impartial on this matter.

 

As I pointed out earlier the problem is that if you already believe CGC engages in all manner of shady shenanigans - gift grades for high volume submitters, no barriers between the receiving & grading department, etc - then this is just more fuel for the fire. No matter what CGC says or does, you will remain convinced that all of Nelson's books will now automatically get a grade bump, whilst yours will be delegated to the back of the queue, unloved & undergraded.

 

There seems to be a fair amount of people in this thread who belongs to this camp - which is a bit surprising. If you honestly believe that way why would you ever submit books to CGC in the first place?

 

On the other hand, if you believe that CGC does what they say they do - grade books impartially no matter who subs them or from where they originate - this announcement is a complete non-issue. It's simply a value-added service from CGC's side that you can either use or ignore - no different than, say, fast-tracking a book.

[MrBedrock]

John, you are not remotely close to impartial on this matter.

Nor are you, Pat (thumbs u

I get books pressed, use cgc services. Have inquired to Kenny at classics inc. about some resto work. So not being anti pressing, and not close to any of the pressing companies, how is this true?

Because " I get books pressed, use cgc services. Have inquired to Kenny at classics inc. about some resto work."

[cheetah]

I've used Classics quite a bit on marginal 9.8 candidates when I was filling my Avengers and X-men runs. I have to admit that I am totally not thrilled by this. Aside from the other points raised, Matt's services are already pretty slow and CGC's are ridiculous. Combine the two and you could have books sittingat CGC for a year or more.

[mschmidt]

I've used Classics quite a bit on marginal 9.8 candidates when I was filling my Avengers and X-men runs. I have to admit that I am totally not thrilled by this. Aside from the other points raised, Matt's services are already pretty slow and CGC's are ridiculous. Combine the two and you could have books sittingat CGC for a year or more.

 

Good thing that there are other, faster pressing services already on the market, then

[Old Fashion PB and J]

John, you are not remotely close to impartial on this matter.

Nor are you, Pat (thumbs u

I get books pressed, use cgc services. Have inquired to Kenny at classics inc. about some resto work. So not being anti pressing, and not close to any of the pressing companies, how is this true?

Because " I get books pressed, use cgc services. Have inquired to Kenny at classics inc. about some resto work."

Maybe I'm not clear on my lack of faith in the current cgc.

[cheetah]

I've used Classics quite a bit on marginal 9.8 candidates when I was filling my Avengers and X-men runs. I have to admit that I am totally not thrilled by this. Aside from the other points raised, Matt's services are already pretty slow and CGC's are ridiculous. Combine the two and you could have books sittingat CGC for a year or more.

 

Good thing that there are other, faster pressing services already on the market, then

 

I know and I use him for most things nowadays because he is faster.

[COI]

John, you are not remotely close to impartial on this matter.

Nor are you, Pat (thumbs u

I get books pressed, use cgc services. Have inquired to Kenny at classics inc. about some resto work. So not being anti pressing, and not close to any of the pressing companies, how is this true?

 

Impartiality must be based on objective criteria, and the only thing we know objectively is that CCG bought CI. So whatever stance you or anyone else is taking in this thread is extrapolation based on whatever biases you're bringing into the discussion.

 

So I think it's redundant for anyone to accuse anyone of impartiality.

[Davenport]

On the other hand, if you believe that CGC does what they say they do - grade books impartially no matter who subs them or from where they originate - this announcement is a complete non-issue. It's simply a value-added service from CGC's side that you can either use or ignore - no different than, say, fast-tracking a book.

It was viewed as a conflict of interest once upon a time:

 

"Following on the heels of CGC's announcement last week that they are closing PCS, Classics Incorporated is stepping up its dedication to accuracy, safety, and prompt service...

... In Nelson's opinion there has never been a better, safer, and more fruitful time to collect or invest in comics than now. "We commend CGC for their decision to put the collectors' best interests first." SCOOP

 

Applauding the closing of PCS as promoting "collectors' best interests", then assuming that role years later, is a reversal of opinion, if nothing else.

Conflict then, 'value-added service' now.

 

 

 

[namisgr]

The Curator must've sought out from the newstand copies with indented staples and crushed spines.

 

Just a few of many examples.

 

 

 

 

[shrunkenhead]

It's not very rare to be pressing related, as is made clear from numerous before-and-after scans and experiences.

 

Ok, Bob.

 

If the before and after scans are available, I don't think it should be easily dismissed.

 

I've been collecting SA and BA comics for 40 years, and while books with impacted staples are not rare, they are uncommon. One glance through a raw original owner collection confirms this. On the other hand, a perusal of the large scans from any Heritage or Pedigree auctions or the Worldwide Comics website shows the prevalence of Silver sporting high numerical grades and also at least one indented staple.

 

Pressing overhang wear also sometimes leaves behind horizontal color-breaking creases even on books that have 9.6 CGC grades. They, too, can be readily found in perusing scans from the usual suspect sites.

 

This is in no way meant to cast doubt on credentials...I'm just curious. When people say things like "I've been collecting for 40 years" do we all begin to tally our professional experience from the age of 5?

 

I'm 58

 

Ye old geezer.

[mschmidt]

On the other hand, if you believe that CGC does what they say they do - grade books impartially no matter who subs them or from where they originate - this announcement is a complete non-issue. It's simply a value-added service from CGC's side that you can either use or ignore - no different than, say, fast-tracking a book.

It was viewed as a conflict of interest once upon a time:

 

"Following on the heels of CGC's announcement last week that they are closing PCS, Classics Incorporated is stepping up its dedication to accuracy, safety, and prompt service...

... In Nelson's opinion there has never been a better, safer, and more fruitful time to collect or invest in comics than now. "We commend CGC for their decision to put the collectors' best interests first." SCOOP

 

Applauding the closing of PCS as promoting "collectors' best interests", then assuming that role years later, is a reversal of opinion, if nothing else.

Conflict then, 'value-added service' now.

 

I don't see anywhere in that article where Nelson claims that owning PCS is a conflict of interest for CGC :shrug:

 

Why wouldn't Nelson have been happy that CGC closed PCS and gave him one less competitor to worry about?

[Dano]

All art gets restored. Us comic book collectors are the last to realize this.

 

Dan

[500Club]

you avoid COI not by not having COI, but by not having the perception of the opportunity for COI.

 

This.

That ship sailed long ago, with the tying of FVFs to market value of the end grade. That is a much more egregious COI. And yet, CGC has not shown a breach of integrity in that regard.

 

As long as the books coming through CI go into the grading process at CGC blindly, the overall net effect of this is Matt Nelson changing addresses.

[NewWorldOrder]

Potential ways for their to be a conflict of interest that results in something shady, depending on your amount of tinfoil:

 

1. CGC actively undergrades books which do not get CI services first.

2. CGC actively overgrades books which do get CI services first.

3. CGC actively ignores borderline restoration after CI performs resto removal.

 

Whether you think any of these will happen depends on the level of trust you have in CGC. Anyone who doesn't see that CCG has a financial incentive, through its ownership of both CGC and CI, is fooling themselves. It may not happen but it appears to be a conflict of interest. That erodes trust in the product of CGC.

 

Mike,

 

You definitely raise some good points, but I still would hope to believe that CGC would not do such practices.

 

They might on extremely high end books make that courtesy phone call perhaps.

 

However is it true that Chris Friesen left CGC?

 

So would that mean Matt Nelson would also be doing all the resto checks?

 

Yes that could open a hole new can of worms.

[Dano]

Man, I wouldn't want to have been in the 9.9 or 10.0 registry right about now.

 

Dan

[Sqeggs]

One advantage to those that don't care about pressing is going to be the huge increase in high grade books as the census numbers explode due to the integrated, institutionalized pressing "ringer" comic books will now be put through. Should definitely bring prices down moving forward. (thumbs u

 

Stick a fork in bronze.

 

Really It's going to be virtually everything post 1966, and basically every Marvel post FF 1....but all of that was happening already I guess. This will just speed up the inevitable wind down of values.

 

I agree. But people have been saying for a long time that paying inflated prices for >9.2 grades was a gamble on anything later than early SA. We have already seen corrections on some of these books.

[500Club]

 

On the other hand, if you believe that CGC does what they say they do - grade books impartially no matter who subs them or from where they originate - this announcement is a complete non-issue. It's simply a value-added service from CGC's side that you can either use or ignore - no different than, say, fast-tracking a book.

One year older, one year wiser.