Certified Collectibles Group (CCG) Acquires Classics Incorporated 3 3

[Tony S]

You're in denial.

 

I've had hundreds of comics encapsulated by CGC. I have friends who've had thousands encapsulated. In our collective experiences, there has never been one single instance of a staple becoming indented during the shipping to CGC, grading, slabbing, and return shipping. Zero.

 

This year I had 6 comics pressed by the new head of the CCG pressing service - one developed an indented staple (You saw it in person - CGC gave it a 9.6 anyway, which is ridiculous), and another a horizontal color breaking crease where the bottom overhang was pressed (also given a 9.6 anyway by CGC). You can see dozens more examples just by a quick perusal of the Pedigree, Heritage, or Worldwide Comics websites. Of course some of these comics got their staples indented during production, everybody knows that. The effects of pressing on staples and cover overhangs, on the other hand, are not widely known.

 

CGC is lenient on defects that are sometimes produced during the pressing process.

 

I think it is more accurate to say that CGC is more lenient on defects that are sometimes occur in the printing/production process. As you note, everyone knows that staples sometimes get indented during the production process. Since CGC is definitely more lenient on production defects - and since an indented staple looks the same from both production and from pressing.... well, there you have the reason.

 

As for overhangs getting creased. Comics with cover overhangs shouldn't be viewed as good pressing candidates. Even when you first spot press (or tack) a specific problem area you still have to press the entire book to have it look right. If the book has a noticeable cover overhang, that overhang is probably going to at least indent some and maybe crease. Pressing services should advise of the risk - which it sounds in your case they did not. Now that you know, don't send books with cover overhang for pressing. Unless the overall appearance improvement more than offsets any loss from the overhang being dented or creased. Worth keeping in mind is that CGC won't encapsulate books with a large cover overhang due to the potential for damaging the book. It's the same thing.

Edited November 18, 2012 by Tony S

[MCMiles]

Bob, I don't believe mess you say about damage that has occurred from pressing. It most certainly does happen. However, time and time again you just seem to have some hard on (a tiny one, I'm sure) about blaming anything and everything on pressing, or even further on CGC.

 

You and your collective friends have submitted hundreds and thousands of books to CGC and apparently many of them have been pressed. According to you, many have been damaged. That's the real mess kicker, you are such a hypocrite, and constantly speak from both sides of your face. You claim all of these books have been damaged, you complain about CGC, yet you continue to utilize both services. Worse, when you decide not to use either one you try to portray it as if you're some sort of saint and doing the hobby or us other uniformed fools a favor.

 

Even if you were ever right on any point about the effects of pressing on the books, I can't take anything you say seriously. You aren't as knowledgeable as you think you are, and if you or anyone else are having books pressed which are coming back with these defects, then do yourself and the books a favor and find a new presser.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2012 by MCMiles

[xsmr2-migration]

I'm relating the two because if CGC were "doing all that they could" to address turnaround times, they would have done that first before aquiring CI.

This won't help turnaround times will it?

 

 

 

CGC did not acquire CI.

 

 

Their parent company, CCG, did.

[Underground44]

I'm relating the two because if CGC were "doing all that they could" to address turnaround times, they would have done that first before aquiring CI.

This won't help turnaround times will it?

 

 

 

CGC did not acquire CI.

 

 

Their parent company, CCG, did.

 

So will THAT help turnaround times then?

[paperheart]

I'm relating the two because if CGC were "doing all that they could" to address turnaround times, they would have done that first before aquiring CI.

This won't help turnaround times will it?

 

 

 

CGC did not acquire CI.

 

 

Their parent company, CCG, did.

 

So will THAT help turnaround times then?

 

 

shh, let's keep on topic. horrible customer service + new add on service = win/win/win

[namisgr]

You and your collective friends have submitted hundreds and thousands of books to CGC and apparently many of them have been pressed. According to you, many have been damaged. That's the real mess kicker, you are such a hypocrite, and constantly speak from both sides of your face. You claim all of these books have been damaged, you complain about CGC, yet you continue to utilize both services.

 

You're wrong on the facts, and so wrong on the personal attack.

 

The number of comics I've had pressed can be counted using my fingers. I know two were damaged by it, just like the White Mountain JIM 91 posted earlier. My submissions to CGC were from 2004-2008 but hardly at all since. The number of slabbed SA books in my collection has been steadily decreasing for the past four years and will continue to decline. I prefer owning unpressed comics, will pay less for pressed ones, and won't buy them at all if there are good alternatives. Seeing how little the JIM 91 went for at auction, it's clear others don't like their books with indented staples from being pressed either, no matter what the number on the label says. My stance has remained unchanged from the first pressing discussion in which I participated in 2004.

 

You're in denial if you think that all of the high grade Silver that's been pressed has made it through the process with spines, staples, and overhangs undamaged. That would be convenient for you, since you sell pressed comics professionally and, according to your disclosure, exclusively, but it wouldn't be correct. As for the magnitude of the problem, since it's an issue rarely if ever discussed on the Boards it seems worthy of public consideration and critical thought.

 

As for how friends who are comic dealers view pressing, that's their business and I don't know why that would reflect in any way on me.

[MrBedrock]

I can't wait 'til Joey rolls out his Recessed Staple Reversal Service.

[namisgr]

You aren't as knowledgeable as you think you are, and if you or anyone else are having books pressed which are coming back with these defects, then do yourself and the books a favor and find a new presser.

 

 

The topic of the thread is pressing by Classics Incorporated, so it's appropriate to discuss experiences with their pressing here.

[MasterChief]

Wow. Just read the thread. What a gag. The once invisible treatment trinity now publically codified by a corporate collusion communique (CCG-CGC-CI). Are they gonna create new labels with disclosure stamps, too? Kinda hard for the experts to claim they can’t tell if a book received the treatment or not now. Easy day when it comes to that. Just refer to the submission form and the check-marked boxes for services requested to determine manipulation procedures rendered. I can see it now... a new label symbolic of the colorful CI website bejeweled by a Seal of Enhancement that denotes Intact Pressing, Disassembled Pressing, Arrival Date Erased, Pedigree Removed, Folio Replaced, Restoration Removed, Cover Reattached, Centerfold Reattached, etc., etc., etc. Oh happy day. Talk about a win/win. Disclosure is a wonderful thing. Thank you, CGC. Your stewardship of the comic collecting hobby and commitment to protecting the hobbyist is commendable. (thumbs u

[skypinkblu]

I'm relating the two because if CGC were "doing all that they could" to address turnaround times, they would have done that first before aquiring CI.

This won't help turnaround times will it?

 

 

 

CGC did not acquire CI.

 

 

Their parent company, CCG, did.

 

I don't believe you ever answered my question, but perhaps you never saw it, so I'll ask it again.

Your name shows you signed up here in 2002, but you never posted until the thread about the cost of grading notes in 2012, why?

[mintcollector]

What will happen when CGC owns the company?

 

 

CGC will not own the company. They will be sister companies.

 

 

It is CCG that is buying Matt's company.

 

Classics only works on comics, unless they spread out to coins and cards, the issue is only relevant with CGC items...so the relationship is there, between the two parts of the umbrella company.

 

 

So why has there never been a problem with CCG owning both NGC and NCS?

 

How's the health of that market fared?

 

In my opinion, it is a necessary evil. One that is accepted and used. Think of it this way, if you have a wondeful coin collection and your house burns down, I guarantee you will call NCS. Any collector would. If you discover a 'rare' coin covered in 'grime' and horribly toned, you can use the services of NCS. It is accepted in the marketplace.

 

'mint'

 

What about currency pressing? Has that too become acceptable?

 

Once again you are comparing 'apples to oranges.' Currency (i.e. paper money) is made out linen just as much as it paper (actually more). Currency is printed with raised inks which help create embossing. Therefore, 'pressing' can be proven and actually causes the removal of the embossing on the note. A comic book being 'pressed' cannot be determined 100% of the time. If I stack a collection of high grade raw comic books tightly in a box for a period of time, you would not be able to (if done right) tell the 'pressed' book from the book from the box.

 

Therefore, the pressing of currency actually causes physical damage to the piece in question. Pressing a comic book (when done right) does not. Personally, I will not buy currency without the 'EPQ' or 'PPQ' designation.

 

This argument has been brought up numerous times on this very forum and cross-collectors like myself have each time attempted to explain this.

 

Also, as to the PM's and emails I have been receiving, I really do not want to enter a discussion comparing art to comic books; or even antiques. As I have said many times before, what goes on in the comic book collecting field does not even hold a 'candle' to what goes on in other collecting fields. This is such a minor issue in my opinion, it does not bother me at all. I have listed examples in this thread and others. Not that anyone cares, but 'pressing' (as I have said multiple times throughout this same thread) is considered minor conservation to me; not restoration. It also does not deserve to get this much attention in my opinion. I did post a thread several days ago in another sub-forum, about my FIRST experience with 'pressing.' I still continue to buy high grade books that I know have been pressed as well.

 

Just is just my opinion, but please do not attempt to compare the pressing of comic books to another collecting field that you may not be educated in. All that this does is either make you look like you do not know what you are talking about; or causes someone who is knowledgeable in the stated field to come and state facts, thus proving you wrong.

 

Respectfully,

 

'mint'

Edited November 18, 2012 by mintcollector

[TupennyConan]

[chrisco37]

This thread will be 100 pages long by Sunday.

 

And so it should. I'm kinda waiting for the heavyweights to chime in. My little submit-20-books-a-year opinion doesn't mean squat in the grand scheme of things. I'm interested to see what the real dealers think in how this is going to affect them, if at all.

 

If history is any indication, there will be a 100-200 page uproar that will change absolutely nothing, then it'll be business as usual. Those who have the most to gain or lose aren't typically the most candid in these kinds of threads.

 

I will enjoy the ride.

 

Haven't been on this weekend until this morning. Saw this thread linked in another one.

 

Was going to read it, but you summed it up pretty well, AK. There will be a bunch of uproar, but nothing will happen.

 

Didn't they try this years ago and backed off when we all went berserk. Only difference this time is that it will stick.

[shrunkenhead]

Just is just my opinion, but please do not attempt to compare the pressing of comic books to another collecting field that you may not be educated in. All that this does is either make you look like you do not know what you are talking about; or causes someone who is knowledgeable in the stated field to come and state facts, thus proving you wrong.

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but this is so undeserved. It's pretty clear that you don't know who you are 'talking' to on these boards. If so, you might not be so confident in your 'expertise.'

 

When it comes to the hobby we talk about on these pages most of the time, I'll take Moondog's opinion over yours any day.

[mintcollector]

Just is just my opinion, but please do not attempt to compare the pressing of comic books to another collecting field that you may not be educated in. All that this does is either make you look like you do not know what you are talking about; or causes someone who is knowledgeable in the stated field to come and state facts, thus proving you wrong.

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but this is so undeserved. It's pretty clear that you don't know who you are 'talking' to on these boards. If so, you might not be so confident in your 'expertise.'

 

When it comes to the hobby we talk about on these pages most of the time, I'll take Moondog's opinion over yours any day.

 

OPINION duly noted.

 

[thirdgreenham]

Just is just my opinion, but please do not attempt to compare the pressing of comic books to another collecting field that you may not be educated in. All that this does is either make you look like you do not know what you are talking about; or causes someone who is knowledgeable in the stated field to come and state facts, thus proving you wrong.

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but this is so undeserved. It's pretty clear that you don't know who you are 'talking' to on these boards. If so, you might not be so confident in your 'expertise.'

 

When it comes to the hobby we talk about on these pages most of the time, I'll take Moondog's opinion over yours any day.

 

Well, to be fair, mint, moondog was only asking a question. He didn't seem to be stating or implying anything. You coming on here and explaining is pretty much what he was looking for. (thumbs u

 

Andy

[shrunkenhead]

Just is just my opinion, but please do not attempt to compare the pressing of comic books to another collecting field that you may not be educated in. All that this does is either make you look like you do not know what you are talking about; or causes someone who is knowledgeable in the stated field to come and state facts, thus proving you wrong.

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but this is so undeserved. It's pretty clear that you don't know who you are 'talking' to on these boards. If so, you might not be so confident in your 'expertise.'

 

When it comes to the hobby we talk about on these pages most of the time, I'll take Moondog's opinion over yours any day.

 

Well, to be fair, mint, moondog was only asking a question. He didn't seem to be stating or implying anything. You coming on here and explaining is pretty much what he was looking for. (thumbs u

 

Andy

 

Exactly, hence no need for the supercilious attitude.

[mintcollector]

Just is just my opinion, but please do not attempt to compare the pressing of comic books to another collecting field that you may not be educated in. All that this does is either make you look like you do not know what you are talking about; or causes someone who is knowledgeable in the stated field to come and state facts, thus proving you wrong.

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but this is so undeserved. It's pretty clear that you don't know who you are 'talking' to on these boards. If so, you might not be so confident in your 'expertise.'

 

When it comes to the hobby we talk about on these pages most of the time, I'll take Moondog's opinion over yours any day.

 

Well, to be fair, mint, moondog was only asking a question. He didn't seem to be stating or implying anything. You coming on here and explaining is pretty much what he was looking for. (thumbs u

 

Andy

 

I thank you Andy for your comment as it is very fair and unbiased. Therefore, I will answer in kind. I just get upset because every time a 'pressing' thread starts on these very forums, we end up going down the list of various antiques and collectibles that we can 'attempt' to compare it to. If you personally (and I mean this in general), consider it restoration you are going to try to compare it to something extreme. If you consider it conservation, you may attempt to compare it to something less extreme. It is in a class all it's own, in my opinion.

 

Someone posted a thread saying 'from what they have seen on Antiques Roadshow.' Once again, if your personal experience with antiques only comes from what you have seen on a television show, maybe you should reserve judgement for those who handle these items on a daily basis and know the business inside and out.

 

Just a suggestion. I personally have twenty two emails to answer comparing this issue to everything from art prints to art glass to furniture. I really do not wish to get into this as I already answered my view on the subject earlier in this thread.

 

No offense to Shrunkenhead or anyone else, but I am very confident in what I know in the antiques market. A lot of forum members have even sought my advice over the years. This is not to say that there is not anyone as knowledgeable as someone like myself on these forums, and I have never once alluded to that fact. I also would never call myself a true 'expert' otherwise I would have to be in the antiques business on a full time basis (to be fair). I also work a career as well, much like most forum members. I do however, post articles and other 'expert' views to occasionally back up my points. My signature line shows this. That is all I am saying. If you want to compare another collecting field's process to 'pressing' you should be very well versed in it.

 

This is a topic that some feel very strongly about. I however, do not consider 'pressing' a major issue. That is only my opinion.

 

Respectfully,

 

'mint'

 

 

[mintcollector]

Just is just my opinion, but please do not attempt to compare the pressing of comic books to another collecting field that you may not be educated in. All that this does is either make you look like you do not know what you are talking about; or causes someone who is knowledgeable in the stated field to come and state facts, thus proving you wrong.

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but this is so undeserved. It's pretty clear that you don't know who you are 'talking' to on these boards. If so, you might not be so confident in your 'expertise.'

 

When it comes to the hobby we talk about on these pages most of the time, I'll take Moondog's opinion over yours any day.

 

Well, to be fair, mint, moondog was only asking a question. He didn't seem to be stating or implying anything. You coming on here and explaining is pretty much what he was looking for. (thumbs u

 

Andy

 

Exactly, hence no need for the supercilious attitude.

 

This was not said to be taken that way. I think you know this.

 

Kind Regards,

 

'mint'

 

Edited to add: I do apologize if it was taken INCORRECTLY. Fair enough?

Edited November 18, 2012 by mintcollector

[ivegotneatstuff]

We won't be here any longer..12/21/12 is just around the corner! But I'm still keeping my books!