Certified Collectibles Group (CCG) Acquires Classics Incorporated 3 3

[COI]

Some CGC board members discussing the importance of pressing.

 

No one is discussing the 'importance' of pressing.

 

Maybe he meant impotence?

[Prince Namor]

Some CGC board members discussing the importance of pressing.

 

No one is discussing the 'importance' of pressing.

 

Maybe he meant impotence?

 

Yeah, I hear it can recess your staples.

[ComicConnoisseur]

On the other hand, if you believe that CGC does what they say they do - grade books impartially no matter who subs them or from where they originate - this announcement is a complete non-issue. It's simply a value-added service from CGC's side that you can either use or ignore - no different than, say, fast-tracking a book.

It was viewed as a conflict of interest once upon a time:

 

"Following on the heels of CGC's announcement last week that they are closing PCS, Classics Incorporated is stepping up its dedication to accuracy, safety, and prompt service...

... In Nelson's opinion there has never been a better, safer, and more fruitful time to collect or invest in comics than now. "We commend CGC for their decision to put the collectors' best interests first." SCOOP

 

Applauding the closing of PCS as promoting "collectors' best interests", then assuming that role years later, is a reversal of opinion, if nothing else.

Conflict then, 'value-added service' now.

 

Very interesting....

Yep, the times, they are a changin'...

 

"Ultimately we did not feel that we were serving in the collectors’ best interest if there was a perception of conflict between CGC and PCS."

Certified Collectibles Group to Indefinitely Suspend Comic Book Conservation Service

 

Is it just the two of us that are reading your posts, Davenport?

It seems so because

some board members can`t get enough of

Edited November 19, 2012 by ComicConnoisseur

[Speedy-D]

On the other hand, if you believe that CGC does what they say they do - grade books impartially no matter who subs them or from where they originate - this announcement is a complete non-issue. It's simply a value-added service from CGC's side that you can either use or ignore - no different than, say, fast-tracking a book.

It was viewed as a conflict of interest once upon a time:

 

"Following on the heels of CGC's announcement last week that they are closing PCS, Classics Incorporated is stepping up its dedication to accuracy, safety, and prompt service...

... In Nelson's opinion there has never been a better, safer, and more fruitful time to collect or invest in comics than now. "We commend CGC for their decision to put the collectors' best interests first." SCOOP

 

Applauding the closing of PCS as promoting "collectors' best interests", then assuming that role years later, is a reversal of opinion, if nothing else.

Conflict then, 'value-added service' now.

 

Very interesting....

Yep, the times, they are a changin'...

 

"Ultimately we did not feel that we were serving in the collectors’ best interest if there was a perception of conflict between CGC and PCS."

Certified Collectibles Group to Indefinitely Suspend Comic Book Conservation Service

 

Is it just the two of us that are reading your posts, Davenport?

There's no mention of CI's restoration in the press release. Evidently all they do is press and remove restoration. :shrug:

[ComicConnoisseur]

Some CGC board members discussing the importance of pressing.

 

No one is discussing the 'importance' of pressing.

 

Maybe he meant impotence?

 

Yeah, I hear it can recess your staples.

Would that be the top staple

or bottom staple?

 

[sterlingcomics]

The point I am trying to make there really isn`t that much a money incentive now to even want your 9.6 pressed up to 9.8. 3 to 5 years ago pressing and resubs was bank. It is not so anymore for most comics.

Those days are past,and it looks like the big players are moving into OA.

Just my opinion.

 

I agree with this, which is why I think the announcement is such a non-starter. Those that already could has--we're clearly onto the later stages of maturation of the "slabbed" phase of this hobby. This coincides with Mike's comment about the continued marginalization of collectors who "paid their dues" with higher prices when the elusive grades weren't there.

 

The move just continues to allow CCG to make bank while providing a service construed as non-restorative by CGC although documentation has said contrary for years. We've simply accepted its practice because we haven't been able to detect it--OR-was a genius move for another segment of the hobby.

 

Still, we know where this is headed.

[red rocks-migration]

made it ! to the end of this thread! collecting goal accomplished!

[shrunkenhead]

Nope, now you have to read this post for completion's sake.

[MasterChief]

Wow. Just read the thread. What a gag. The once invisible treatment trinity now publically codified by a corporate collusion communique (CCG-CGC-CI). Are they gonna create new labels with disclosure stamps, too? Kinda hard for the experts to claim they can’t tell if a book received the treatment or not now. Easy day when it comes to that. Just refer to the submission form and the check-marked boxes for services requested to determine manipulation procedures rendered. I can see it now... a new label symbolic of the colorful CI website bejeweled by a Seal of Enhancement that denotes Intact Pressing, Disassembled Pressing, Arrival Date Erased, Pedigree Removed, Folio Replaced, Restoration Removed, Cover Reattached, Centerfold Reattached, etc., etc., etc. Oh happy day. Talk about a win/win. Disclosure is a wonderful thing. Thank you, CGC. Your stewardship of the comic collecting hobby and commitment to protecting the hobbyist is commendable. (thumbs u

Manufactured Gold illustrated, charted, documented and exposed exactly how the system operates. An amazing effort and community service.

 

A thread that should've been sticky-ed was locked and then expunged. Had to be. Actions communicate the true attitude toward "collector's best interests" clearer than a hundred promotional press releases.

 

Damn that it got expunged because I always wanted to read the thread

Manufactured Gold .

 

Sorry you missed it, CC. It was a good ride. Very enlightening.

 

And I appreciate those that participated during the three-month run the thread maintained its front-page status in Comics General. Many of those that participate are no longer with us. Perhaps they figured out the inevitable sooner rather than later.

 

Thanks for the award, Dav. It's a beauty. I always wanted one of those badges that RedHook awarded to a praiseworthy Comic Book Detective, but you beat him to the punch that day! (thumbs u

 

[MasterChief]

Converserly, as undergraded books are identified and flip hands and work their way through the ringer(s) (and make no mistake, there are books out there that have been pressed, re-pressed, and post-re-pressed as the new "owners/investors" have no history that a book has already been pressed and re-pressed), the % of overgraded CGC books will increase as each book is maxed out. That, and the loosening of CGC's standards over the last few years, has resulted in an overall population of CGC graded books that lean towards the low end of the grade spectrum.

The fact that a book as expensive as the Pacific Coast Hulk 1 has been resubbed many times tells me that the more expensive/rare/highly sought after a book is, the more likely it is that it'll have a "checkered" resub history. Combine that with your point about overgraded/overworked books and the astronomical rise in the prices of many key books, and you can only conclude that buyers will continue to get far less for their collecting dollar.

 

If I had money that I couldn't afford to lose tied up in books, I'd be dumping like it's hot.

A little data to support a rational argument. Here's a snapshot of the PC TOS run.

 

These books were run through the ringer multiple times. High grade to start with, but that wasn't quite enough.

 

Every squeeze was undertaken to maximize their monetary potential...

 

 

[mschmidt]

Potential ways for their to be a conflict of interest that results in something shady, depending on your amount of tinfoil:

 

1. CGC actively undergrades books which do not get CI services first.

2. CGC actively overgrades books which do get CI services first.

3. CGC actively ignores borderline restoration after CI performs resto removal.

 

Whether you think any of these will happen depends on the level of trust you have in CGC.

All irrelevant. The books will continue to go into the grading process blind, devoid of any information regarding submitter or prep work.

 

This.

 

It's ridiculous to think that CGC would do anything in this situation that even smells of a conflict of interest - does anyone honestly think they're going to flush a reputation earned over 12 years down the toilet simply so they can sell a couple extra $10 press jobs?

[Davenport]

Thanks for the award, Dav. It's a beauty. I always wanted one of those badges that RedHook awarded to a praiseworthy Comic Book Detective, but you beat him to the punch that day! (thumbs u

Oh yeah. Got mine spotting Ewert shenanigans. (Which was nothing in retrospect, considering how it all evolved from there. Ewert just went too far, too fast, ahead of his time.)

 

[paperheart]

Converserly, as undergraded books are identified and flip hands and work their way through the ringer(s) (and make no mistake, there are books out there that have been pressed, re-pressed, and post-re-pressed as the new "owners/investors" have no history that a book has already been pressed and re-pressed), the % of overgraded CGC books will increase as each book is maxed out. That, and the loosening of CGC's standards over the last few years, has resulted in an overall population of CGC graded books that lean towards the low end of the grade spectrum.

The fact that a book as expensive as the Pacific Coast Hulk 1 has been resubbed many times tells me that the more expensive/rare/highly sought after a book is, the more likely it is that it'll have a "checkered" resub history. Combine that with your point about overgraded/overworked books and the astronomical rise in the prices of many key books, and you can only conclude that buyers will continue to get far less for their collecting dollar.

 

If I had money that I couldn't afford to lose tied up in books, I'd be dumping like it's hot.

A little data to support a rational argument. Here's a snapshot of the PC TOS run.

 

These books were run through the ringer multiple times. High grade to start with, but that wasn't quite enough.

 

Every squeeze was undertaken to maximize their monetary potential...

 

 

that's beautiful.

[dopy02]

Converserly, as undergraded books are identified and flip hands and work their way through the ringer(s) (and make no mistake, there are books out there that have been pressed, re-pressed, and post-re-pressed as the new "owners/investors" have no history that a book has already been pressed and re-pressed), the % of overgraded CGC books will increase as each book is maxed out. That, and the loosening of CGC's standards over the last few years, has resulted in an overall population of CGC graded books that lean towards the low end of the grade spectrum.

The fact that a book as expensive as the Pacific Coast Hulk 1 has been resubbed many times tells me that the more expensive/rare/highly sought after a book is, the more likely it is that it'll have a "checkered" resub history. Combine that with your point about overgraded/overworked books and the astronomical rise in the prices of many key books, and you can only conclude that buyers will continue to get far less for their collecting dollar.

 

If I had money that I couldn't afford to lose tied up in books, I'd be dumping like it's hot.

A little data to support a rational argument. Here's a snapshot of the PC TOS run.

 

These books were run through the ringer multiple times. High grade to start with, but that wasn't quite enough.

 

Every squeeze was undertaken to maximize their monetary potential...

 

 

that's beautiful.

 

I'm impressed with how much pressing improves page quality

[paperheart]

Potential ways for their to be a conflict of interest that results in something shady, depending on your amount of tinfoil:

 

1. CGC actively undergrades books which do not get CI services first.

2. CGC actively overgrades books which do get CI services first.

3. CGC actively ignores borderline restoration after CI performs resto removal.

 

Whether you think any of these will happen depends on the level of trust you have in CGC.

All irrelevant. The books will continue to go into the grading process blind, devoid of any information regarding submitter or prep work.

 

This.

 

It's ridiculous to think that CGC would do anything in this situation that even smells of a conflict of interest - does anyone honestly think they're going to flush a reputation earned over 12 years down the toilet simply so they can sell a couple extra $10 press jobs?

 

CGC's reputation is better than PGX's; some might also say it consists of long periods of woeful overgrading, horrible customer service re: turnaround times, non-stop price increases, squeezing their customers for every dollar imaginable: $5 handling fee, $5 per scan, $5 for grader's notes. they're a monopoly and it shows.

[Underground44]

Converserly, as undergraded books are identified and flip hands and work their way through the ringer(s) (and make no mistake, there are books out there that have been pressed, re-pressed, and post-re-pressed as the new "owners/investors" have no history that a book has already been pressed and re-pressed), the % of overgraded CGC books will increase as each book is maxed out. That, and the loosening of CGC's standards over the last few years, has resulted in an overall population of CGC graded books that lean towards the low end of the grade spectrum.

The fact that a book as expensive as the Pacific Coast Hulk 1 has been resubbed many times tells me that the more expensive/rare/highly sought after a book is, the more likely it is that it'll have a "checkered" resub history. Combine that with your point about overgraded/overworked books and the astronomical rise in the prices of many key books, and you can only conclude that buyers will continue to get far less for their collecting dollar.

 

If I had money that I couldn't afford to lose tied up in books, I'd be dumping like it's hot.

A little data to support a rational argument. Here's a snapshot of the PC TOS run.

 

These books were run through the ringer multiple times. High grade to start with, but that wasn't quite enough.

 

Every squeeze was undertaken to maximize their monetary potential...

 

 

that's beautiful.

 

I'm impressed with how much pressing improves page quality

 

I was thinking the exact same thing myself

[Transplant]

Potential ways for their to be a conflict of interest that results in something shady, depending on your amount of tinfoil:

 

1. CGC actively undergrades books which do not get CI services first.

2. CGC actively overgrades books which do get CI services first.

3. CGC actively ignores borderline restoration after CI performs resto removal.

 

Whether you think any of these will happen depends on the level of trust you have in CGC.

All irrelevant. The books will continue to go into the grading process blind, devoid of any information regarding submitter or prep work.

 

This.

 

It's ridiculous to think that CGC would do anything in this situation that even smells of a conflict of interest - does anyone honestly think they're going to flush a reputation earned over 12 years down the toilet simply so they can sell a couple extra $10 press jobs?

No. But I think it's gets more tempting when you have a customer who brings in $30-40k in slab fees every year hoping that his previous plod comes back a blue label after the ct is removed by CI. Or the same person hopes that the staple replacement done by CI gets a blue label and not a glod or plod. Or that same person has $5k in resto work done and he hopes it gets a slight P instead of a moderate P.

 

Lets not trivialize this by insulting people's intelligence. CGC won't sacrifice it's ethics or reputation for just a little bit of money. If it happens, it will be for a good bit of money.

[Ant-Man]

Four free pressings with a paid membership?

[mschmidt]

Potential ways for their to be a conflict of interest that results in something shady, depending on your amount of tinfoil:

 

1. CGC actively undergrades books which do not get CI services first.

2. CGC actively overgrades books which do get CI services first.

3. CGC actively ignores borderline restoration after CI performs resto removal.

 

Whether you think any of these will happen depends on the level of trust you have in CGC.

All irrelevant. The books will continue to go into the grading process blind, devoid of any information regarding submitter or prep work.

 

This.

 

It's ridiculous to think that CGC would do anything in this situation that even smells of a conflict of interest - does anyone honestly think they're going to flush a reputation earned over 12 years down the toilet simply so they can sell a couple extra $10 press jobs?

No. But I think it's gets more tempting when you have a customer who brings in $30-40k in slab fees every year hoping that his previous plod comes back a blue label after the ct is removed by CI. Or the same person hopes that the staple replacement done by CI gets a blue label and not a glod or plod. Or that same person has $5k in resto work done and he hopes it gets a slight P instead of a moderate P.

 

But those are just variations on temptations that CGC has been facing all along :shrug:

 

They already have a company who spends $30-40k in slabbing fees every year and, as far as I know, nobody's ever accused CGC of giving that particular company preferential treatment.

 

Nor have there been any stories of people with $100k+ books being allowed to influence the grade of their book.

 

CGC's entire business model is built up around one simple concept - to provide an impartial grade.

 

If you were the CEO of CGC, would you consider it a smart business decision to in any way erode the cornerstone of your multi-million $ business for what's basically chump change (in the grand scheme of things)?

[Transplant]

If I were the CEO I wouldn't have done the same thing which caused such an uproar last time. The reason people were upset then is the same reason now. It gives the impression of a conflict. When you sell trust, it is untenable to give people a real reason to question whether you're being impartial.