Your thoughts on sellers who ask buyers to pay paypal fees?

[sterlingcomics]

Bake your business costs into the book, and know how much to accept in a bid/offer situation to cover your costs. Don't go looking for more money after a deal is struck.

 

Nuff said.

[lizards2]

Good lord, the issue is NOT THE MATH!!!

 

If you don't think FlyingDonut's math makes sense, you need to go back to memorial school.

 

It's how you present yourself, and how you're perceived.

 

Besides the fact that it's illegal in California and on Ebay, I perceive them as nickel + dime dirtbags no matter how they spin it. But I guess it's only kinda-illegal, like breaking the speed limit.

I don't know who you are, and I can't tell if you agree with me. And I don't know what 'memorial school' is. :shrug:

And he just managed to offend 50-60% of the 'dirtbags' that sell and buy here.

[skypinkblu]

Good lord, the issue is NOT THE MATH!!!

 

If you don't think FlyingDonut's math makes sense, you need to go back to memorial school.

 

It's how you present yourself, and how you're perceived.

 

Besides the fact that it's illegal in California and on Ebay, I perceive them as nickel + dime dirtbags no matter how they spin it. But I guess it's only kinda-illegal, like breaking the speed limit.

I don't know who you are, and I can't tell if you agree with me. And I don't know what 'memorial school' is. :shrug:

 

He's agreeing with you, ...

[500Club]

I can't believe how people get so confused with the math.

 

I want 100 for a book.

 

I ask 103 for the book but offer a 3% discount for cash I get 100 in my pocket if I am paid with cash or PayPal.

 

I ask 100 for the book but if you pay via PayPal you need to pay the 3 in fees. If someone pays with cash or Paypal I get 100 in my pocket.

 

The two are equivalent in terms of what the seller is willing to accept for his book, which is 100.

 

What some seem to be saying is if the sellers bottom price is 100 he should really be fine getting 97 if the purchaser uses Paypal but it is fine if the buyer uses cash for him to make 100.

 

 

 

Good lord, the issue is NOT THE MATH!!! It's how you present yourself, and how you're perceived.

+1

[The-Collector]

Bake your business costs into the book, and know how much to accept in a bid/offer situation to cover your costs. Don't go looking for more money after a deal is struck.

 

Nuff said.

 

This.

 

Morally I would lean towards the buyer absorbing the costs as it is at their discretion to choose payment method. Though a case could be made for equal division of cost or the burden resting with the seller.

 

As one guilty of asking buyers to cover the vig I am biased. But I do understand that transparent pricing structures are good for buyers.

 

After some trial and error I would rather incorporate the paypal fees into the book price as well as offering a discount because the forum lacks fees and then offer a discount for fee free payment. But the forum discount and fee free payment discount are determined independently.

 

Say I listed a book at my bottom dollar discounting for the fact that the forum has no fees and then add a surcharge for PP I am not gouging just trying to recoup my costs. To clarify though I think the best pricing structure is:

 

Total price listed in the forum = FMV of book + (FMV*PP FEES) - (FMV*1/2 of fees saved by selling on forum)

 

-You then remove the 1st parentheses if they pay with a fee free method

-The second parentheses is for half the money saved selling as that way it provides both buyers and sellers an incentive to sell on the forum. If you don't give some of the savings to the seller they might as well sell on eBay/clink/cc/ha which provides extra insurance.

 

I twould be nice if we could standardize, because say one seller has you pay the vig and then you later decide to on sell the book and being the stand up boardie you are you elect to absorb the cost you are being hit twice.

 

Though I am not for this type of market regulation as its benefit is mostly moral. And individuals can avoid it without regulation.

 

 

[Conan_Aficionado]

I avoid those sellers, just price the fees into your asking price, is that so ****ing hard to do.

[Speedy-D]

Bake your business costs into the book, and know how much to accept in a bid/offer situation to cover your costs. Don't go looking for more money after a deal is struck.

 

Nuff said.

 

This.

 

Morally I would lean towards the buyer absorbing the costs as it is at their discretion to choose payment method. Though a case could be made for equal division of cost or the burden resting with the seller.

 

As one guilty of asking buyers to cover the vig I am biased. But I do understand that transparent pricing structures are good for buyers.

 

After some trial and error I would rather incorporate the paypal fees into the book price as well as offering a discount because the forum lacks fees and then offer a discount for fee free payment. But the forum discount and fee free payment discount are determined independently.

 

Say I listed a book at my bottom dollar discounting for the fact that the forum as no fees and then add a surcharge for PP I am not gouging just trying to recoup my costs.

 

I twould be nice if we could standardize, because say one seller has you pay the vig and then you later decide to on sell the book and being the stand up boardie you are you elect to absorb the cost you are being hit twice.

 

It's really got very little to do with the price, or the math, or any of that. It makes a seller look amateurish and petty when he/she starts listing their expenses and telling their buyers that they have to cover them. And while the discount for non-PP transactions is a little better, it's not by much. This issue is all about appearances.

[The-Collector]

Bake your business costs into the book, and know how much to accept in a bid/offer situation to cover your costs. Don't go looking for more money after a deal is struck.

 

Nuff said.

 

This.

 

Morally I would lean towards the buyer absorbing the costs as it is at their discretion to choose payment method. Though a case could be made for equal division of cost or the burden resting with the seller.

 

As one guilty of asking buyers to cover the vig I am biased. But I do understand that transparent pricing structures are good for buyers.

 

After some trial and error I would rather incorporate the paypal fees into the book price as well as offering a discount because the forum lacks fees and then offer a discount for fee free payment. But the forum discount and fee free payment discount are determined independently.

 

Say I listed a book at my bottom dollar discounting for the fact that the forum as no fees and then add a surcharge for PP I am not gouging just trying to recoup my costs.

 

I twould be nice if we could standardize, because say one seller has you pay the vig and then you later decide to on sell the book and being the stand up boardie you are you elect to absorb the cost you are being hit twice.

 

It's really got very little to do with the price, or the math, or any of that. It makes a seller look amateurish and petty when he/she starts listing their expenses and telling their buyers that they have to cover them. And while the discount for non-PP transactions is a little better, it's not by much. This issue is all about appearances.

 

I don't think it is amateurish at all. 3% of 10k is a lot of money. I can obfuscate how I arrived at the final price by stating the total up front or I can add it on afterwards the effect is the same. Appearance to me is unaffected.

 

So to me the maths does go to appearance. Because 2+2=4 and 3+1=4 so the appearance to me is the same. The only time it goes to credibility/professionalism is if I structure the pricing in such a way that buyers don't know what they are getting until after they commit to the contract.

[The-Collector]

My phone company loves to do this.

 

The smoke and mirrors they use to arrive at the final figure is risible. And Is an obvious attempt to let people ring up large bills without knowing it.

 

But if it offends people I don't see any reason why a seller can't as standard practice times their sale price by 1.03 and list that price in the forum.

 

That way everyone is happy.

[lizards2]

My phone company loves to do this.

 

The smoke and mirrors they use to arrive at the final figure is risible. And Is an obvious attempt to let people ring up large bills without knowing it.

 

But if it offends people I don't see any reason why a seller can't as standard practice times their sale price by 1.03 and list that price in the forum.

 

That way everyone is happy.

That never works due to all the low-ballers around here.

 

Besides, people will whine about anything. Some take great sport at it.

[The-Collector]

Bake your business costs into the book, and know how much to accept in a bid/offer situation to cover your costs. Don't go looking for more money after a deal is struck.

 

Nuff said.

 

This.

 

Morally I would lean towards the buyer absorbing the costs as it is at their discretion to choose payment method. Though a case could be made for equal division of cost or the burden resting with the seller.

 

As one guilty of asking buyers to cover the vig I am biased. But I do understand that transparent pricing structures are good for buyers.

 

After some trial and error I would rather incorporate the paypal fees into the book price as well as offering a discount because the forum lacks fees and then offer a discount for fee free payment. But the forum discount and fee free payment discount are determined independently.

 

Say I listed a book at my bottom dollar discounting for the fact that the forum as no fees and then add a surcharge for PP I am not gouging just trying to recoup my costs.

 

I twould be nice if we could standardize, because say one seller has you pay the vig and then you later decide to on sell the book and being the stand up boardie you are you elect to absorb the cost you are being hit twice.

 

It's really got very little to do with the price, or the math, or any of that. It makes a seller look amateurish and petty when he/she starts listing their expenses and telling their buyers that they have to cover them. And while the discount for non-PP transactions is a little better, it's not by much. This issue is all about appearances.

 

Also if you have a problem with a discount for non pp then the only option left is to charge all buyers the same price and then you are the penalizing the buyers who pay buy check as they will be covering the anticipated cost. Unless you offer them some discount via pm after negoations commence which seems very odd to me. Covert discounts so pp users aren't offended???

 

Speedy would you prefer that sterlingcomic's suggestion of structuring it into the price was not practiced either? Because that seems like it might be our point of difference. In which case it is going to be hard to resolve as their is no compromise. But it is also something fundamentally different to asking them not to add it on afterwards. It is asking them not to try and recoup an avoidable cost at all.

[Speedy-D]

My phone company loves to do this.

 

The smoke and mirrors they use to arrive at the final figure is risible. And Is an obvious attempt to let people ring up large bills without knowing it.

 

But if it offends people I don't see any reason why a seller can't as standard practice times their sale price by 1.03 and list that price in the forum.

 

That way everyone is happy.

That never works due to all the low-ballers around here.

 

Besides, people will whine about anything. Some take great sport at it.

That's a good point. The talk of selling for 1.03% of your desired price is theoretical at best. The reality is that round numbers work, and you'll often end up bargaining with buyers, offering discounts for comics that don't sell quickly, all that jazz. Pricing is a lot more fluid around here than ebay BINs.

 

I don't know about others, but aside from what I paid, it's impossible for me to put an exact dollar value on any single comic, to the point where I could then multiply it by 1.03 and have a perfect asking price. For the kind of stuff I like, rounding to the nearest $10, or even $25, is the best I could do.

[The-Collector]

My phone company loves to do this.

 

The smoke and mirrors they use to arrive at the final figure is risible. And Is an obvious attempt to let people ring up large bills without knowing it.

 

But if it offends people I don't see any reason why a seller can't as standard practice times their sale price by 1.03 and list that price in the forum.

 

That way everyone is happy.

That never works due to all the low-ballers around here.

 

Besides, people will whine about anything. Some take great sport at it.

 

 

Good points

[Speedy-D]

Bake your business costs into the book, and know how much to accept in a bid/offer situation to cover your costs. Don't go looking for more money after a deal is struck.

 

Nuff said.

 

This.

 

Morally I would lean towards the buyer absorbing the costs as it is at their discretion to choose payment method. Though a case could be made for equal division of cost or the burden resting with the seller.

 

As one guilty of asking buyers to cover the vig I am biased. But I do understand that transparent pricing structures are good for buyers.

 

After some trial and error I would rather incorporate the paypal fees into the book price as well as offering a discount because the forum lacks fees and then offer a discount for fee free payment. But the forum discount and fee free payment discount are determined independently.

 

Say I listed a book at my bottom dollar discounting for the fact that the forum as no fees and then add a surcharge for PP I am not gouging just trying to recoup my costs.

 

I twould be nice if we could standardize, because say one seller has you pay the vig and then you later decide to on sell the book and being the stand up boardie you are you elect to absorb the cost you are being hit twice.

 

It's really got very little to do with the price, or the math, or any of that. It makes a seller look amateurish and petty when he/she starts listing their expenses and telling their buyers that they have to cover them. And while the discount for non-PP transactions is a little better, it's not by much. This issue is all about appearances.

 

Also if you have a problem with a discount for non pp then the only option left is to charge all buyers the same price and then you are the penalizing the buyers who pay buy check as they will be covering the anticipated cost. Unless you offer them some discount via pm after negoations commence which seems very odd to me. Covert discounts so pp users aren't offended???

 

Speedy would you prefer that sterlingcomic's suggestion of structuring it into the price was not practiced either? Because that seems like it might be our point of difference. In which case it is going to be hard to resolve as their is no compromise. But it is also something fundamentally different to asking them not to add it on afterwards. It is asking them not to try and recoup an avoidable cost at all.

I'm not asking anyone to do anything. If I've phrased it differently from time to time, I apologize. Sometimes I get lost in my own arguments.

 

People are free to sell whatever they want, at whatever price they want. I, and others, are telling sellers how we interpret their pulling out PP costs and overtly passing them to buyers. That's it. And I'm telling those sellers that they've already lost my business on numerous occasions, and will continue to do so. Some of the comics that I've passed on have sold, so who cares, right? Many have not, so I figure it's good info for those sellers to have.

[The-Collector]

I can do it. I think 'what do I want for this book bottom dollar'. A number appears in my head. I then multiply it by 1.03. That's my bottom line. If I get no offers over or equal to that I keep it.

 

I also don't agree that asking for fees back means they will skimp on packaging. I spend a lot of time pricing and valuing my books and that same pedantic nature goes into the way I package books as if something is damaged in transit it is a cost to me. So the pendulum can swing both ways.

 

Final point sorry for all the multi posting.

 

I was wondering why buyers absorb shipping costs and sellers are expected to absorb payment fees. Is it just convention? In which case it is arbitrary.

 

 

I don't know.

 

I don't mind how someone chooses to price their goods as long as they are not being deceptive. If someone wants me to cover the vig I factor that in before making an offer so they might not save anyway. In the end both parties should negotiate and arrive at a number they are comfortable with.

[The-Collector]

Bake your business costs into the book, and know how much to accept in a bid/offer situation to cover your costs. Don't go looking for more money after a deal is struck.

 

Nuff said.

 

This.

 

Morally I would lean towards the buyer absorbing the costs as it is at their discretion to choose payment method. Though a case could be made for equal division of cost or the burden resting with the seller.

 

As one guilty of asking buyers to cover the vig I am biased. But I do understand that transparent pricing structures are good for buyers.

 

After some trial and error I would rather incorporate the paypal fees into the book price as well as offering a discount because the forum lacks fees and then offer a discount for fee free payment. But the forum discount and fee free payment discount are determined independently.

 

Say I listed a book at my bottom dollar discounting for the fact that the forum as no fees and then add a surcharge for PP I am not gouging just trying to recoup my costs.

 

I twould be nice if we could standardize, because say one seller has you pay the vig and then you later decide to on sell the book and being the stand up boardie you are you elect to absorb the cost you are being hit twice.

 

It's really got very little to do with the price, or the math, or any of that. It makes a seller look amateurish and petty when he/she starts listing their expenses and telling their buyers that they have to cover them. And while the discount for non-PP transactions is a little better, it's not by much. This issue is all about appearances.

 

Also if you have a problem with a discount for non pp then the only option left is to charge all buyers the same price and then you are the penalizing the buyers who pay buy check as they will be covering the anticipated cost. Unless you offer them some discount via pm after negoations commence which seems very odd to me. Covert discounts so pp users aren't offended???

 

Speedy would you prefer that sterlingcomic's suggestion of structuring it into the price was not practiced either? Because that seems like it might be our point of difference. In which case it is going to be hard to resolve as their is no compromise. But it is also something fundamentally different to asking them not to add it on afterwards. It is asking them not to try and recoup an avoidable cost at all.

I'm not asking anyone to do anything. If I've phrased it differently from time to time, I apologize. Sometimes I get lost in my own arguments.

 

People are free to sell whatever they want, at whatever price they want. I, and others, are telling sellers how we interpret their pulling out PP costs and overtly passing them to buyers. That's it. And I'm telling those sellers that they've already lost my business on numerous occasions, and will continue to do so. Some of the comics that I've passed on have sold, so who cares, right? Many have not, so I figure it's good info for those sellers to have.

 

To each their own.

[Speedy-D]

Accepting shipping costs but not others is indeed arbitrary, and just based on custom. Go talk to any Economist (like my Dad ) or Sociologist of Psychiatrist, and you'll hear again and again that we are not a perfectly logical species.

 

One thing to keep in mind is that the PP fee is a sellers fee. It's charged to the seller by Paypal. Maybe that's fair and maybe it's not, but it is certainly true. This is a big part of why it comes off poorly when you turn around and try to pass that fee to me too overtly.

 

Another thing to keep in mind is that we're all on both sides of this transaction at different times. Today I'm the buyer, tomorrow I'm the seller. Given this point, why does it not make sense just to leave the fee as a seller's fee? Today I pay it as the seller, tomorrow I get a pass as the buyer.

 

And finally, I get the feeling sometimes that people don't want to pay the fee because they think it's unreasonable. As RMA is fond of pointing out, this fee is the cost of doing business with Paypal. If you don't like it, if you think it's too much, then don't do business with Paypal. If you don't think it's too much, then live with it, pay it when you're selling, and don't when you're buying. :shrug:

[Boozad]

The thing with this place is there are so many fantastic sellers who go above and beyond when selling that they set the bar, and it's a high one. Then it's impossible not to draw comparisons. Some sellers here cut deals, throw in free books, halve shipping, offer free shipping and so on and so forth, and a lot of boardies know this first hand. To then see someone ask you to cover their selling fees will naturally be a major turn off, especially for people who don't ask for their fees covered themselves.

 

[lizards2]

The thing with this place is there are so many fantastic sellers who go above and beyond when selling that they set the bar, and it's a high one. Then it's impossible not to draw comparisons. Some sellers here cut deals, throw in free books, halve shipping, offer free shipping and so on and so forth, and a lot of boardies know this first hand. To then see someone ask you to cover their selling fees will naturally be a major turn off, especially for people who don't ask for their fees covered themselves.

I think you've shown exactly why some do ask for you to cover the paypal fees - they're already giving you a screaming good deal.

[Boozad]

The thing with this place is there are so many fantastic sellers who go above and beyond when selling that they set the bar, and it's a high one. Then it's impossible not to draw comparisons. Some sellers here cut deals, throw in free books, halve shipping, offer free shipping and so on and so forth, and a lot of boardies know this first hand. To then see someone ask you to cover their selling fees will naturally be a major turn off, especially for people who don't ask for their fees covered themselves.

I think you've shown exactly why some do ask for you to cover the paypal fees - they're already giving you a screaming good deal.

 

They're the ones that don't ask.