Same people buying more or new readers coming onboard ??

[Kevin Boyd]

Actually, the analysis suggests that any unit sales increase is TOTALLY INHERENT on a few of the top-selling speculator books (ie. Astonishing X-Men 1) that sell far in excess of regular books, and is not being carried through all the comic book titles.

 

Oh, I agree that there was a lot of speculation on AXM 1, which had sales inflated by multiple covers... ditto for Superman 205 and Superman/Batman 10 which each had two covers.

 

The fact that the x-books "re-loaded" in May also helped increase sales to speculators, but hopefully to readers as well.

 

 

So yes, I'd say rampant speculation has a great deal to do with the rise in comic sales. Otherwise, all titles would be up, and not just the latest Marvel #1, Hot Artist, New Relaunch books would be seeing the huge sales spikes.

 

I don't know if I would call it rampant, when the majority of the books in the top 25 in both May and June were just regular non-event issues. Do people speculate heavily on Daredevil 60? Teen Titans 11? Batman 629?

 

For example, the Top 3 comics from May 2004 sold 600K, while in June 2003, these sold 400K. Now if you take out the Top 20 "hot selling" comics, then it would have to go to over #100 to reach a 200K discrepancy.

 

The major difference between May and June is that (a) May had multiple versions of AXM (which was also a #1 issue by a "hot" creative team) and Superman 205 and Superman/Batman 11 which inflated the numbers and (b) there was a normal drop between first and second issues as all of the x-books declined at least 20000 copies between may and june due to the May reload event. Those differences can be directly accounted to speculation.

 

Basically, the latest comic sales are highly weighted at the top-end, with the "hot selling" books like Astonishing X-Men, Identity Crisis #1, Lee's Superman, Superman/Batman, Secret Wars, etc., not to mention double-shipping of Ultimate titles (thereby front-loading the chart even more) making up the vast majority of the sales difference.

 

Are you trying to indicate that the top was never highly weighted? Comic sales have always been highly weighted at the top end with "hot selling" books at the top. How different is that over last year? Two years ago? 10 years ago? 20 years ago?

 

Of course, we know these books aren't being speculated on, or mass-submitted to CGC.

 

That may be true of the top few books, but are all books in the top 25 mass-submitted to CGC? I doubt it.

 

Look over those numbers and put that in perspective.

 

I've completely lost perspective after working on this for the last 45 minutes. All you've done is spout platitudes about the new comic market that were true last year, the year before, etc. What's different about this year is that there are more comics being sold than last year.

 

Sales are up, not just dollar shares... but unit shares... particularly at the top end.

 

Who buys them? Is it speculators or are we actually getting more readers?

 

JC says its speculators, no surprise there.

 

I would rather hear from someone who actually deals with brick and mortar sales. Are you seeing any increases in sales from new customers (or even old customers returning after long absences)? We've heard from people who are new to comics in this very thread...

 

Kev

[joe_collector]

Are you trying to indicate that the top was never highly weighted? Comic sales have always been highly weighted at the top end with "hot selling" books at the top. How different is that over last year? Two years ago? 10 years ago? 20 years ago?

 

Here's the deal:

 

Comic book sales are way up at the top end, where several sell 200K or more, while in 2003, that number would be 100-130K.

 

Comic book sales have not increased by any measurable amount outside of the Top 20 or so books, and only slightly outside the very top 5-6 sellers. .

 

That's what I meant by top-heavy and it really comes down to WHY you think the top books are selling higher than they did last year, while everything else is stagnant.

 

I pick speculators on the "hot books", while you may think 100K new readers piled in to buy Astonishing X-Men 1, but didn't buy anything else.

[Kevin Boyd]

Comic book sales are way up at the top end, where several sell 200K or more, while in 2003, that number would be 100-130K.

 

Well, one book selling 200K+ copies... an X-Men #1 at that... with multiple covers does not make several.

 

Since sales of AXM #2 (no variants) were about 130K I would think that sales of #1 without variants would have been around 160-175K.

 

That's still an increase of of 30-45K over a heavily speculated #1 from 2003 (with essentially the same environment, including CGC).

 

Did speculators suddenly decide to buy more copies on average in 2004 than they did in 2003? Are they doing that well flipping the books they speculate on that they would up their orders that much?

 

I doubt it.

 

What is more likely is that we have an influx of a few thousand new speculators (possible) or 30-45K new readers (not really probable, but not impossible) or a mix of the two (which is likely). End result is we still have new people entering the new issue market (speculators and readers).

 

If it's 15-20K new readers, then who is to say that they also didn't sample the other books released that month? All 15-20K will not buy the same books (and likely helped bump up the sales on other x-books which did see increases in May and June despite the drops in June). The remainder of the new issue market may generally be stagnant, but individual titles fluctuate.

 

Or we only have 100,000 people buying new issues each month in North America TOPS (and 80,000 of them were in San Diego last weekend) and they all bought a copy of Astonishing X-Men #1.

[PedigreeMan]

I think you're both forgetting one thing: Not everyone who reads / collects comics buys everything that comes out each month. Say there's an established total customer base of 350,000 ... what's the variance in the amount of money spent by them in this marketplace? No one outlays exactly the same amount each month, and occasionally a new title will be added to their pull lists. Dollars spent may mostly even out over time, but sporadic spikes like the past few months have to occur.

 

The big questions are, "What is the total customer base for monthly comic books and what is its growth rate?" and "How much is being spent by this group and what is its growth rate?" You'd have as good a chance of answering these questions by reading tea leaves as you would by analyzing the Diamond numbers. The Big Two pay mucho bucks to large, outside firms to figure out these numbers, and no one here is going to even come close to the correct answers without having done some down-and-dirty research. And even then, Marvel and Time-Warner aren't going to give you their proprietary info to complete your research, so you'll be SOL anyway.

 

Can't we all just sit back and enjoy the ride? If the industry collapses and we can't get our weekly fixes anymore, I'm sure we'll all find something to obsessively collect in place of our beloved comics!

 

Alan

[Jgel]

I spend about $1000 a month on books and $0 on new books. Back issues only.

[Kevin Boyd]

I spend about $1000 a month on books and $0 on new books. Back issues only.

 

Good for you. Do you actually read them? Or is this a collecting/ investment/ recapturing your youth kind of thing?

 

I spend about $0 a month on back issues and $400 a month (at least) on new product (that includes new reprints of old material like Archives and Masterworks as well as books about comics). I don't buy multiple copies or speculate. I read everything that I buy.

[Kevin Boyd]

I think you're both forgetting one thing: Not everyone who reads / collects comics buys everything that comes out each month. Say there's an established total customer base of 350,000 ... what's the variance in the amount of money spent by them in this marketplace? No one outlays exactly the same amount each month, and occasionally a new title will be added to their pull lists. Dollars spent may mostly even out over time, but sporadic spikes like the past few months have to occur.

 

Hey Alan,

 

I don't think I'm forgetting that at all. I can't predict how many established total customers there are any more than you can. Could be 50K, it could be 1Mill.

 

Did Astonishing X-Men bring in new customers? I don't know, but there sure were a lot of them ordered. More than the hot books last year. It indicates something, we're just at odds as to what that something is.

 

The question is why are sales up this year? And JC and I are simply playing a guessing game. It could very well be market variance, or it could be that there are new people coming in, or it could be that the same core group of evil dealers are speculating more than ever.

 

The big questions are, "What is the total customer base for monthly comic books and what is its growth rate?" and "How much is being spent by this group and what is its growth rate?" You'd have as good a chance of answering these questions by reading tea leaves as you would by analyzing the Diamond numbers. The Big Two pay mucho bucks to large, outside firms to figure out these numbers, and no one here is going to even come close to the correct answers without having done some down-and-dirty research. And even then, Marvel and Time-Warner aren't going to give you their proprietary info to complete your research, so you'll be SOL anyway.

 

The question du jour is why are sales up in 2004? And yes, we are guessing. This "you can't guess therefore shut up" attitude just won't do young man.

 

Plus JC has a lot of information compiled, don't forget that.

 

Can't we all just sit back and enjoy the ride? If the industry collapses and we can't get our weekly fixes anymore, I'm sure we'll all find something to obsessively collect in place of our beloved comics!

 

Alan, for some people this is part of the ride. We wouldn't need a forum if we all were just content to take the books as they come and not talk about them, the industry or the market (new and old).

 

Personally, I'm tired of hearing the same negative [!@#%^&^] about how modern books are terrible and only survive because of speculators. There are a lot of people who support new books because they actually LIKE them and are enjoying the ride. Heaven forbid that there might actually be NEW people jumping on this crazy merry-go-round and enjoying new comics. That a sales increase actually meant the possibility of new readers rather than the typical "must be the speculators" over-inflating the numbers response. (Sure that accounts for some of it, I will concede that)

[PedigreeMan]

Okay, since we're guessing, let me throw in my two cents worth.

 

I think comic readership has reached a plateau. It's been on the decline since the Wertham 1950s, and the rise of continued and interlinked stories pioneered by Marvel during the '60s has pushed all of the casual readers out. What's left are the hardcore, obsessive compulsive collectors who need their weekly routine and who need to see the continuation of the runs of series they have built over the years. The last of the casual readers left in the 90s with the glut of (generally poor) material and speculation gone bad.

 

However, I do believe that this plateau will remain with us indefinitely (or at least until one of the Big Two does something stupid -- see below). There will always be those of us with a touch of obsessive compulsiveness that find some visceral attraction to comic books. And for those of us that drop out of the weekly habit, there's another pubescent who finds collecting sequentially numbered, saddle-stitched, four-color pages appealing waiting in the wings. Mark Millar let it slip last year that Marvel's customer base was just over 300k. If we can't maintain that level of readership, we're in trouble as a civilization.

 

That's not to say there isn't danger lurking in the shadows. Should one of the Big Two do something to shoot itself in the foot and cause it to go out of business, the entire house of cards will collapse. No comic book store could survive an abrupt loss of over 30% of its montly revenue. And once the speciality outlets start falling, Diamond falls right behind them, taking all of the independents and probably even whichever of the Big Two remained.

 

Do I want this to happen? Heck no! Do I think it'll happen any time soon? I dunno. There's no telling who DC will pick to replace Paul Levitz once he retires, and if it's someone who causes Time Warner to take notice of its loss-leader enterprise, there's no telling what kind of shakeup could occur. Can I see a TW exec axing the monthly sales of Superman and Batman comic books? No, but stranger things have happened in the big business world. And Marvel, being a publicly traded company is always on the line to try new and innovative things to keep revenue increasing. Being in a market where your core audience has plateaued oftentimes causes your leadership to undertake some risky ventures. After all, Marvel's bankruptcy of the late '90s wasn't solely due to the corruption of its top level executives.

 

I hope I'm not coming across as negative here. My worst case scenario above is unlikely to happen within the next few years, and even if the more likely scenario of Marvel going through another bankruptcy occurs, chances are they won't ever stop publishing entirely. And I have to believe Levitz is grooming an appropriate replacement, so DC ain't going anywhere, either.

 

So again, let's just kick back, enjoy our weekly books ($125 a month for me), and let JC whine and moan about speculators all he wants. Those of us with a touch of OCD aren't going to lose our fix.

 

(Ya know what Kev? Guessing is fun!)

 

Alan

[Aman619]

yknow, looking at the lists you posted for May and JUne sales. theres one fact that wasnt mentioned by you or JC: The 25th top-selling book in June was 4% higher than the 25th book from May. Without doing the math on the other 24, statistically, one can infer that higher sales that deep into the monthluy list is a significant increase in sales that "ignores" whatever distortion is caused by the top two 'speculator-influenced' titles listed on each list.

 

discuss.......

[Jgel]

I spend about $1000 a month on books and $0 on new books. Back issues only.

 

Good for you. Do you actually read them? Or is this a collecting/ investment/ recapturing your youth kind of thing?

 

I spend about $0 a month on back issues and $400 a month (at least) on new product (that includes new reprints of old material like Archives and Masterworks as well as books about comics). I don't buy multiple copies or speculate. I read everything that I buy.

 

I buy to flip for more cash. I keep a few. I don't read many issues anymore. I like owning issues for a short time. It is fun for me to make $400 on a book that I bought for $30. That is where the fun is for me. I do keep a few, but not many. About 5 years ago I was spending about $600 a month on new modern books and $0 on older books. I then lost the fun of always chasing the HOT book of the day. It is more fun for me to dig and search out the RARE HG Bronze or Silver book. I used to have about 18 long boxes of comics. I now have about 10 short boxes, 2 CGC boxes and 2 long boxes of Batman (every issue from 350-600 or something). I hope to get rid of almost all my raw books, I just have not had the time to list them with all of the CGC stuff that I work on. Still waiting on about 25 books from them

[Kevin Boyd]

Hey Alan,

 

I respect that you feel it's hit a plateau... unfortunately I've seen enough interest in the under 20 crowd on the days I have hung around at Paradise on a weekend shooting the breeze with the other comic geeks to have some doubts. Maybe Paradise is atypical.

 

Yes, the majority of the guys who are there on wednesdays are 20 and 30 somethings getting their weekly fix, but when I've helped Peter do the files and I've seen certain patterns of buying...

 

There are maybe a dozen or so books that most people are getting (with some variations) they are:

Superman (used to be Batman)

Astonishing X-Men

Uncanny X-Men

X-Men

Amazing Spider-Man

Ultimate Spider-Man

Ultimate Fantastic Four

Ultimate X-Men

Superman/Batman

 

Then there are maybe another dozen 2nd tier Marvel and DC books that a lot of customers get pulled - they tend to fall into the group tiers - Batman collectors get all of the Bat-books, X-collectors get all of the x-books, Spidey collectors all of the Spidey books and so on. Avengers Dissassembled has done well in upping interest in that line of books. Byrne and Claremont on JLA helped. A surprising number of people get Punisher MAX.

 

There are also the Star Wars collectors... the Buffy collectors... there used to be CrossGen collectors... Conan does pretty well...

 

There are very few diverse collectors... people like myself who sample books from across most tiers... I seem to be one of the only people that pre-orders TPs and Hardcovers.

 

Two brothers who shop at Paradise - one's 12 and his brother who is about 10 - are really into new comics, particularly DC... the older brother likes to follow the news reports online and always has questions for me about things he's heard about. They pull a lot of books and can rarely afford to get everything each week so they come in almost every day with a little bit of money and buy one or two books apiece at a time. They actually give me some hope as they seems to like the books, especially Iron Man and Teen Titans (the younger brother was ecstatic when he heard Tom Grummett from Titans was coming to our show)... which kind of contradicts your theories about stagnation. I agree with Steve when he mentioned in another thread a few days ago that (some issue on the stands) is probably someone's first comic. If they like what they see they come back for more.

 

I agree that as companies, there are steps that Marvel and DC, et al. can do to increase sales and encourage new readers... but perhaps what they are doing is working, it's just that we, as jaded fans that have been around the block too many times to count, can't appreciate it because new comics aren't the way that they were when we started. I certainly expect different things out of comics than when I was seven years old. What my 7-year old nephew thinks is cool (like Masters of the Universe or Teen Titans Go!) is usually something that I'm not personally interested in... but that's what he likes and I try to steer him to the classic stuff (like the Essentials) when I can.

 

To suggest this is it, we can only maintain is probably correct, but I don't think that we have to accept that without some hope that things may get better. With all of the exposure that comics are getting in other media I can't believe that no one new is trying out comics for the first time....

[Kevin Boyd]

I buy to flip for more cash. I keep a few. I don't read many issues anymore. I like owning issues for a short time. It is fun for me to make $400 on a book that I bought for $30. That is where the fun is for me. I do keep a few, but not many. About 5 years ago I was spending about $600 a month on new modern books and $0 on older books. I then lost the fun of always chasing the HOT book of the day. It is more fun for me to dig and search out the RARE HG Bronze or Silver book. I used to have about 18 long boxes of comics. I now have about 10 short boxes, 2 CGC boxes and 2 long boxes of Batman (every issue from 350-600 or something). I hope to get rid of almost all my raw books, I just have not had the time to list them with all of the CGC stuff that I work on. Still waiting on about 25 books from them

 

I kind of got the impression that was the case.

 

Chasing after the hot book of the day never works out in the end.

 

Digging thru back issue bins can be fun, and I have a lot friends that do it and love to show off their finds. I can appreciate that, as I used to dig thru the bins a lot myself when I was collecting back issues. But flipping isn't really my thing, even though I've sold enough books to the contrary at shows and online over the last 10 years. But I kind of lost interest in the thrill of the hunt for back issues when I completed most of the runs that I wanted to complete, or picked up all of the issues by the specific artists I liked. I've never really been a speculator, although I do think I have a pretty good idea of what I think is worthy of being "hot"...

 

There are a lot of buyers like yourself out there who "gave up" on the new market and now concentrate purely on the old (for whatever reason). I haven't yet, as in 28 years of buying I have yet to not find new comics that interest me as a reader. And they aren't necessarily the same comics either. I pretty much get whatever catches my attention and holds it.

 

So if, as Alan suggests, there are only 300K new buyers out there... how many "back issue only" collectors do you think are out there?

[PedigreeMan]

Interesting perspective you have, Kev.

 

On the flip side, I'm on a few mailing lists that primarily deal with Golden and Silver Age books, but a majority of their members also collect Moderns. Unfortunately, there has been a disturbing trend among these memberships of people dropping monthly books in droves. One woman in particular made a fascinating post about how she had boxes and boxes of sealed Diamond boxes full of unread Moderns from the past few years stacked up in her closet. She had finally decided to essentially give up her collecting and divest herself entirely of these books. My point with this is that I see it as evidence that for every pair of pre-teen brothers that come into Paradise with wonder in their eyes, there's a grizzled thirtysomething with tired eyes who's just ready to call it quits.

 

The monthly comic book is an interesting medium. Up until just a couple decades ago, the average reader spent about 3 years buying them before moving on to other things. Presumably, within that time they had seen all of the archetypical stories that could be told, gotten bored, and abandoned the market. Why do people like us hang on for 10, 20, whatever years? Do we really think we're going to see something new? And if it is new, are we even going to like it? (You should see the people who absolutely despise Identity Crisis for "what it did to the characters they remember.") For every Gaiman Sandman, there's a thousand FF versus Dr. Doom or Superman versus Lex Luthor battles that we've all seen a dozen times before. Why do we hang on?

 

You crack that nut, and you'll have your answer to what can be done about the future of comic books. I've already described the way I see it (we're a bunch of OCD freaks who probably need to be put on Prozac ), but I am open to other ideas.

 

(Yep, guessing IS fun!)

 

Alan

[Jgel]

I buy to flip for more cash. I keep a few. I don't read many issues anymore. I like owning issues for a short time. It is fun for me to make $400 on a book that I bought for $30. That is where the fun is for me. I do keep a few, but not many. About 5 years ago I was spending about $600 a month on new modern books and $0 on older books. I then lost the fun of always chasing the HOT book of the day. It is more fun for me to dig and search out the RARE HG Bronze or Silver book. I used to have about 18 long boxes of comics. I now have about 10 short boxes, 2 CGC boxes and 2 long boxes of Batman (every issue from 350-600 or something). I hope to get rid of almost all my raw books, I just have not had the time to list them with all of the CGC stuff that I work on. Still waiting on about 25 books from them

 

I kind of got the impression that was the case.

 

Chasing after the hot book of the day never works out in the end.

 

Digging thru back issue bins can be fun, and I have a lot friends that do it and love to show off their finds. I can appreciate that, as I used to dig thru the bins a lot myself when I was collecting back issues. But flipping isn't really my thing, even though I've sold enough books to the contrary at shows and online over the last 10 years. But I kind of lost interest in the thrill of the hunt for back issues when I completed most of the runs that I wanted to complete, or picked up all of the issues by the specific artists I liked. I've never really been a speculator, although I do think I have a pretty good idea of what I think is worthy of being "hot"...

 

There are a lot of buyers like yourself out there who "gave up" on the new market and now concentrate purely on the old (for whatever reason). I haven't yet, as in 28 years of buying I have yet to not find new comics that interest me as a reader. And they aren't necessarily the same comics either. I pretty much get whatever catches my attention and holds it.

 

So if, as Alan suggests, there are only 300K new buyers out there... how many "back issue only" collectors do you think are out there?

 

Yea it is funny. It is like a new hobby. I am not really collecting (although there are books that I collect) I like testing my grading skills. I like to hunt out good deals and sell high. I then buy more. I started with 2 books, sold, bought 5, sold bought more and so on and so on. It is fun. I feel like I can add to my collection for free. I bought a Hulk 122 for $35 and sold it for $440. It is finds like that, that I like. It is what is fun in comics for me. Sometimes I mis-grade and so it goes, but for the most point I am OK. There are people like me that CGC has created a NEW hobby. I like that. Will it last forever, NO, but for the time it is fun. And I can get the books that I want. (anyone have anything in may want list??) I get to travel to cons and spend money and own COOL books and to me it is all free as I keep flipping. Some people don't like that, but I see it as a new trend that I will ride as long aas I can.

[Jungle_Junkie]

Sorry chaps for starting the thread and not posting until now but what with the time zones and having to go to out and earn a living........

 

Some very interesting views.

 

I just think that as the quality is so good now that comic fans in general are just buying more books (I know I am)

 

Over here it's quite a mix from early teens to oldies who buy books but I guess with the x-box generation comics aren't at the tops of kids list BUT I think they will be here to stay for a long time

[Kevin Boyd]

One woman in particular made a fascinating post about how she had boxes and boxes of sealed Diamond boxes full of unread Moderns from the past few years stacked up in her closet. She had finally decided to essentially give up her collecting and divest herself entirely of these books.

 

As in sealed from the distributor? If she wasn't reading them, then I've got to wonder why she was buying them in the first place. If it was to flip or save as "an investment" then I'm with JC... she was never really a part of the hobby. She was purely a speculator

 

The monthly comic book is an interesting medium. Up until just a couple decades ago, the average reader spent about 3 years buying them before moving on to other things. Presumably, within that time they had seen all of the archetypical stories that could be told, gotten bored, and abandoned the market. Why do people like us hang on for 10, 20, whatever years? Do we really think we're going to see something new? And if it is new, are we even going to like it? (You should see the people who absolutely despise Identity Crisis for "what it did to the characters they remember.") For every Gaiman Sandman, there's a thousand FF versus Dr. Doom or Superman versus Lex Luthor battles that we've all seen a dozen times before. Why do we hang on?

.

 

Well, I've been hanging on for about 30 years now and I'm still enjoying the ride. A Superman/Lex Luthor fight can be as fresh as it was the first time if handled properly.

 

It's like watching tv.. do I stop watching tv because the latest episode of my current favourite show "24" sucked? No. I change the channel and find something else, or I watch a different show, like Alias or the Sopranos.

 

Likewise, do I stop reading comics because JMS has flecked around with Gwen Stacy in the pages of Amazing Spider-Man and it annoys the hell out of me? No, I put it down, evaluate whether or not I want to get the next Spider-Man and read New Frontier 5 instead. Now if all comics everywhere collectively sucked (and I've yet to find this to be so) I still don't know if I could stop - I'd just re-read the ones I do like and look around for the next book that interests me. But it doesn't make sense to me to give up reading comics just because the current Spider-Man isn't fun for me anymore.

 

I see a bad movie, I don't stop going to the movies. I see a bad show I don't stop watching tv. I read a bad book I don't stop reading. I read a bad comic I don't give up on the medium. If it's in your blood... if you bleed in "four colors"... then you don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

 

That's why so many people come back after taking breaks. It helps put into perspective what they like and don't like about comics. It shapes their critical view of the material.

 

Those that are in it for money-making propositions only and don't care about the medium are the ones that don't usually come back.

 

It's not throwing money away if you actually enjoy what you are spending the money on.

 

Told ya it was fun.

 

Kev

[rob_react]

Well, I've been hanging on for about 30 years now and I'm still enjoying the ride. A Superman/Lex Luthor fight can be as fresh as it was the first time if handled properly.

 

Like in the hands of Loeb/McGuinness just a few short months ago?

[joe_collector]

That's why so many people come back after taking breaks.

 

Come on, let's be realisitic about this.

 

The previous comic book boom hit in 1989-93 when prices skyrocketed and hype was at an all-time high, while the last "great exodus" came with the Great Crash of the mid-90's.

 

Now suddenly comics are hot again as an investment or speculative vehicle, and people are mysteriously "rediscovering" comics again? Must all be a coincidence, and not tied at all to money and hype?

[Kevin Boyd]

Come on, let's be realisitic about this.

 

The previous comic book boom hit in 1989-93 when prices skyrocketed and hype was at an all-time high, while the last "great exodus" came with the Great Crash of the mid-90's.

 

Now suddenly comics are hot again as an investment or speculative vehicle, and people are mysteriously "rediscovering" comics again? Must all be a coincidence, and not tied at all to money and hype?

 

Once again, it boils down to money and collectibility for you.

 

I was under the impression that the "exodus" of buyers that caused the crash of the mid-90s was caused by publisher gluttony, that the dumping of inferior product on the marketplace in massive amounts... too much crappy product too quickly that it became too unwieldy financially for the regular buyers to discern the Shi from shinola... the buyers were feeling ripped off... and gave up on most (if not all) of what they were buying.

 

Once the dust settled, the better books survived (the ones that actually had customer support) and the industry rebuilt around those successes.

 

If people are rediscovering comics again because of speculation, then yeah, there is bound to be another period of disillusionment and loss.

 

But if people are rediscovering comics because of hype (like seeing a good superhero film like X2, Hellboy or Spider-Man 2) and/or media attention... and they actually LIKE what they find... then yeah, sales go up. I find it hard to believe that everyone who comes to comics is doing so because comics are being hyped as a speculative/investment vehicle. A lot of them hop on because they liked Spider-Man 2 and want to read a good Spider-Man comic, or maybe they may have seen John Romita Jr. interviewed on the Spider-Man DVD and want to buy JR Jr Spider-Man comic to see what it's like. Some thing got them to look, and that's all a publisher can hope to get... people to look. Problem with comics in the late 1990's was that no one was looking.

 

Who, BTW is hyping modern comics (aside from Wizard) as an investment to the general public? Even Wizard devotes half of it's magazine to spotlight the product and the people rather than the price.

 

If they were coming because of collectibility/investment hype, then they would be better off investing in older books over new ones. 8 times out of 10 your shop owner (if he knows what he is doing) is going to point you towards gold, silver and bronze over Jim Lee and Michael Turner if you want to try to make money out of the hobby. So yeah, we are seeing that happen with new people spending record dollars on high priced older books...

[dudesim]

I came back to it....Annnnnnnnnnnnnnn I have never flip a comic book.

Sure I like collecting something(comic's) that might gain in Value. But for me its something I did as kid an I still enjoy comic's today