Am I the only one that noticed this Superman #149 9.6 that sold for 22 x guide?!

[nearmint]

Great book, but I thought it would go for about 2k, not 5k! Who is Paramont anyway?

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2258586481&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT

[Aman619]

I came across it.. but it was already up to 2300!! thats a big sale!

 

there was also a BB30 9.0 (top census) that went for over 4000! The census is pretty thin for early SA DCs, so th equestion is, how many more HG copies (especially the PEDIGREES) are out there raw waiting to bet slabbed? We al ways agree here that DC collectors bpooks never see the light of day again ,,,, but with the healthy prices for keys of late, is it only a matter of time now??

[namisgr]

Or how about this one, an Adventure 300 in 8.5 that went for over $600.

 

It looks like the census is starting to influence early Silver Age DC prices, as it demonstrates the true rarity of many of these books in high grade.

 

Adv 300

[joe_collector]

It looks like the census is starting to influence early Silver Age DC prices, as it demonstrates the true rarity of many of these books in high grade.

 

[namisgr]

Don't be a fool, Joe. The 8.5 Adventure 300 is the second highest census grade, and a key book. While obviously not approaching the rarity of GA books, DCs from 1956-1962 are much more scarce in high grade than early Silver Marvels, and the market is now aware of this tangibly through the census. If you had any convention experience looking for these DCs in high grade raw shape, you'd know as well.

 

Your market theories may have legitimacy, but they are not rubber bands that can be stretched to fit all cases.

[joe_collector]

I'm not laughing at the comic, but at the theory that the CGC Census in any way represents rarity or scarcity in grade.

 

It will take SEVERAL DECADES for even a percentage of the total HG supply to filter into CGC, especially on the DC side, where it may take funerals to pry these books away from hardcore collectors.

 

If the Census was a human being, its umbilical cord has just been cut.

[namisgr]

You're using selective attention, Joe. While the census figures for early Silver DC certainly support my position that these books are far more rare than early Silver Marvels in grade, I also point out that anyone with convention experience in seeking these DCs even in raw shape can confirm their relative rarity. Just ask any major dealer about their supply of these high grade books over the past decade.

 

I agree with you that the current census provides only a crude approximation of the true availability of Silver Age books in grade, and is influenced by the current market (i.e., high prices yield more submissions; Marvels dominate the early Silver marketplace, and so are submitted far more frequently). Nevertheless, by combining census figures with convention experience and discussions with large dealers, one can gain a fairly accurate sense of the rarity of early Silver DCs in grade.

[joe_collector]

As we'll all find out within the next few decades (some to their everlasting regret), there are far more high-grade examples of pop culture collectibles than you can possibly imagine.

 

You call early-60's DC comics rarer than Marvels, but I say neither deserve the "rare" title. You cite CGC Census numbers, when it is a known fact that an infinitesimal percentage of the high-grade comic supply has been submitted. You refer to the microscopic "liquid supply" of comics that dealers trade back and forth, while I'm talking about the total supply, including those in hardcore DC collections.

 

So basically we're talking apples and oranges.

[shadroch]

In well over 25 years in the business,I can count on one hand the examples of NM early DC I have come across.I'm not just talking in dealer stock or at flea markets. I'm talking about having checked out collections that will never see the light of day,ect,ect. I'm of the opinion that early DC keys-Showcase,BB,early Legion appearences are are scarcer than their Marvel counterparts.

[tth2]

In well over 25 years in the business,I can count on one hand the examples of NM early DC I have come across.I'm not just talking in dealer stock or at flea markets. I'm talking about having checked out collections that will never see the light of day,ect,ect. I'm of the opinion that early DC keys-Showcase,BB,early Legion appearences are are scarcer than their Marvel counterparts.

 

Shadroch and Namisgr, you guys are right on. No one is saying that the CGC census is the end all and be all of scarcity indication. But any long-time early SA DC high grade collector knows how hard these copies are to find, at any price. The census thus far has merely confirmed what we have always believed to be the case. Do I believe there's probably at least 1 9.4 copy of Showcase 22 out there? Sure. Do I believe there's 5 or 10 copies? No way.

 

Certainly some of the recent stratospheric prices for SA DCs will start driving some HG copies out into the market. The appearance of a 9.4 Flash 105 and JLA 1 on Comiclink is evidence of that.

 

JC, you appear to know BA, so stick to your knitting. You don't know squat about high grade SA DC.

[Aman619]

 

I shudder when I go back an dlook at all my SA HG DC treasures Ive bought over the years. 8.5s and above are killer books for early SA DCs. "SOme" more will come out, and I fell all the grade slots will eventually be filled up, but there will be far fewer than early Marvel keys even when all these supposed dead DC collectors collection get broken up and sold by their heirs

[tth2]

Or how about this one, an Adventure 300 in 8.5 that went for over $600.

 

It looks like the census is starting to influence early Silver Age DC prices, as it demonstrates the true rarity of many of these books in high grade.

 

Adv 300

 

Or what about the 9.4 Adventure 301? What insufficiently_thoughtful_person would pay $1009 for that book? Oh, wait... Damn that Joe Serpico, if he would just go away and concentrate on his late SA and BA collection, this book could've been had for barely over 2X!

 

Cool, I just realized that a Marvel thread has been hijacked by DC, for a change! Well done, Namisgr and aman!

[nearmint]

Cool, I just realized that a Marvel thread has been hijacked by DC, for a change! Well done, Namisgr and aman!

 

Now when have I started a Marvel thread? This thread started with the Supes #149 auction!

[joe_collector]

JC, you appear to know BA, so stick to your knitting. You don't know squat about high grade SA DC.

 

Sure Mr "All Early-60's DC Comics are SUPER SCARCE AND ULTRA RARE", but I'll be back to dance on your grave with each and every HG copy these crazy prices bring out.

 

Oh, and what excuse will you come up with when the Census doubles for these books? Hmmmmm...?

[burntboy]

In well over 25 years in the business,I can count on one hand the examples of NM early DC I have come across.I'm not just talking in dealer stock or at flea markets. I'm talking about having checked out collections that will never see the light of day,ect,ect. I'm of the opinion that early DC keys-Showcase,BB,early Legion appearences are are scarcer than their Marvel counterparts.

 

Shadroch and Namisgr, you guys are right on. No one is saying that the CGC census is the end all and be all of scarcity indication. But any long-time early SA DC high grade collector knows how hard these copies are to find, at any price. The census thus far has merely confirmed what we have always believed to be the case. Do I believe there's probably at least 1 9.4 copy of Showcase 22 out there? Sure. Do I believe there's 5 or 10 copies? No way.

 

Certainly some of the recent stratospheric prices for SA DCs will start driving some HG copies out into the market. The appearance of a 9.4 Flash 105 and JLA 1 on Comiclink is evidence of that.

 

JC, you appear to know BA, so stick to your knitting. You don't know squat about high grade SA DC.

 

interesting thoughts/comments on the scarcity (or lack thereof) of early HG SA DC's.

 

i certainly have no real hands-on experience like some of you guys, but one would think that the sheer lack of availability of these books would be a pretty clear indicator of their scarceness.

 

i'm having a hard time even figuring out how to price some of mine because there's just no track record. go onto any of the major sites and you'll see a ton of low/mid grade books but virtually no High Grade material. look in the CGC census and you'll see very low numbers. go into GPA and you'll find very little sales activity over the past two years.

 

since i don't see why DC collectors are any more hardcore than marvelites, i'm not sure why there would be any huge numbers socked away in collections moreso than marvels are. one would have to assume that DC guys are unusually loyal not to have been selling these books for the past 20 years, if they do indeed exist in big numbers.

 

besides, i WANT to believe that they're scarce so that my little hoard has real value

[noshill-migration]

1X 2 = 2! 2, those aren't rare at all!!!

[joe_collector]

one would think that the sheer lack of availability of these books would be a pretty clear indicator of their scarceness.

 

Are early-60's DC's scarcer than Marvels of the same time? Yes

 

Are early-60's DC's scarce in the market? Yes

 

But I also feel that calling something from the 1960's RARE and SCARCE is a huge joke, and that as time goes by and more of the DC collections come out, that Census numbers will grow noticeably.

[FlyingDonut]

True HG pre 1965 DCs are exceptionally hard to find. There's a great deal of fine to VF stuff in the marketplace, but NM high grade DC? Almost impossible. I have never seen high grade early Flash or Adventure books in the 30 years I've been buying books. There's a great deal of HG Marvel, but not much DC.

 

What is amusing to me is the know-it-all attitude from Joe. Here's a hint - between myself, shadroch, tth2, burntboy, namisgr, aman and others, we kind of know what's going on in the back issue DC market. There simply isn't a lot of high grade DCs.

[Rocketeer]

...I got to agree with Donut on this Joe,..it's easier to find high grade gold DC books than it is to find high grade between 1950-1965,..I'm not saying they don't exist , but they certainly don't exist in the frequency that Marvels do in this period,..and they don't get circulated like Marvels do either,....and if you are trying to complete a high grade run you are in competition sometimes with a dozen other hard core completionists for the same book that probably won't surface again for at least 5 years,..I'm not saying that it justifies a 22x guide spread but it's not uncommon to pay 10-12 times guide for a late 50's early 60's DC book.....marvel collectors never seem to comprehend and accept this notion for some reason

[Aman619]

yeah... JC allows that the earliest SA Marvels (pre-1963) are harder to find in HG. But finds it inconceivable that DCs from 1956 to 1961 ( widely considered BEFORE the beginning of the organized groundswell of comics collecting) and then 1961 tp 1963 are scarce in HG...

 

And the warning that the census will (gasp) DOUBLE!!! shocking....

even when /if it quadruples. DCs will be far less than Marvels are ALREADY.