Is Joe Kubert great ??

[Jeffro.]

 

The point I am making is that Kubert still drew beautifully in the same style he always did. even when he was 70 (plus).

 

 

I disagree slightly. Joe did lose a little bit. It was no where near as pronounced as Neal's dropoff but it was there.

[Davenport]

I have never understood the absence of Hawkman from this image. Pretty sure his work on that character covered one of the longest spans in his career...

He certainly did Hawkgirl justice, as in Justice League.

Yeah, I said it. JLA72 is one of my all-time favorite covers EVER.

 

[Logan510]

 

The point I am making is that Kubert still drew beautifully in the same style he always did. even when he was 70 (plus).

 

 

I disagree slightly. Joe did lose a little bit. It was no where near as pronounced as Neal's dropoff but it was there.

 

Is it a dropoff or is it an artist who's been a pro for close to 50 years developing and changing over the course of time and you not liking the direction he went?

[Dr. Balls]

I wish someone would post the Captain America variant Neal did recently, it is godawful, and I love his Bronze age work. He seems to elongate faces lately, just not my cup of tea. Whereas Kubert's Night Owl is great.

 

This one?

 

 

I'll venture a guess that the colorist butchered the detail in his work and the flag looks like it has been added afterwards in a total half@ssed way. I agree, it doesn't look very good, but it's probably because we are not used to seeing his stuff colored using modern techniques (which leave a lot to be desired).

 

 

[Davenport]

 

The point I am making is that Kubert still drew beautifully in the same style he always did. even when he was 70 (plus).

 

 

I disagree slightly. Joe did lose a little bit. It was no where near as pronounced as Neal's dropoff but it was there.

 

Is it a dropoff or is it an artist who's been a pro for close to 50 years developing and changing over the course of time and you not liking the direction he went?

Here's a review of Joe Kubert Presents #1, released Oct 2012, with him passing August 2012 at 85. The cover art is dated 2011: CBR

Eighty five. If his art was deteriorating at all, I just don't see it.

 

[kpaqu1]

I wish someone would post the Captain America variant Neal did recently, it is godawful, and I love his Bronze age work. He seems to elongate faces lately, just not my cup of tea. Whereas Kubert's Night Owl is great.

 

This one?

 

 

I'll venture a guess that the colorist butchered the detail in his work and the flag looks like it has been added afterwards in a total half@ssed way. I agree, it doesn't look very good, but it's probably because we are not used to seeing his stuff colored using modern techniques (which leave a lot to be desired).

 

 

Looks like he was attempting an homage to Kirby with the pose but his style doesn't suit it well.

[Dr. Balls]

I wish someone would post the Captain America variant Neal did recently, it is godawful, and I love his Bronze age work. He seems to elongate faces lately, just not my cup of tea. Whereas Kubert's Night Owl is great.

 

This one?

 

 

I'll venture a guess that the colorist butchered the detail in his work and the flag looks like it has been added afterwards in a total half@ssed way. I agree, it doesn't look very good, but it's probably because we are not used to seeing his stuff colored using modern techniques (which leave a lot to be desired).

 

 

Looks like he was attempting an homage to Kirby with the pose but his style doesn't suit it well.

 

Yeah, I kinda get that looking at the fingers. If I had time at work, I'd drop out that flag, and I think it would appear much more like his art.

[Bronty]

That cap is godawful. I hate to say it as Neal's peak period work is one of my very favorites and I'd put him in my top 10 of all time.... but you can really see how Neal was flash and style and guys like Kubert and Kirby were substance.

 

In that way, Neal is not unlike (a much better version) of Liefeld or name another hot 90s artist. A lot of flash and innovative techniques but as he got older and the verve wore off the art really really suffered.

 

Please keep in mind I have lots of respect for Neal's art and very little for Liefeld's. I'm not saying Neal = Liefeld. But I am saying that both were "flashy" and flash is typically more fleeting than substance. If you can draw "well" without needing to draw "pretty" you can keep that up for a long long time if you work hard enough at it.

[sterlingcomics]

I think his art is perfect for war comics: grimy and gritty with real men trying to kill each other. His work on Hawkman stands out as well. And he drew the art in the Army PMCS manuals; how cool is that? I think he's a legend.

 

I agree, but I really think his style worked well for just about every genre he worked in. Kubert is awesome; his work can be overlooked simply because of the quantity he generated...but imo it was all quality.

[sterlingcomics]

An absolute legend! He will go down as one of the greatest, most influential artists in all of comicdom.

 

I, like many, it seems, felt his art was very scratchy and simplistic, but when you enjoy a war book, you pick up another. Before I knew it, I had read loads of war books. What kept me interested? The stories, I'm sure, but the artwork drew me in, time after time. It's not flashy, it's not McFarlane, it's Joe friggin' Kubert, and it's real. It's gritty and it's beautiful. Maybe it takes a while for it to "grow" on people, but before you realize it, a light goes on and bing, you understand how well drawn his work really was.

 

You may think it looks simple and drawn quickly, but that's his mastery at work.

 

A true genius of the medium.

 

Rest in peace, Joe Kubert.

 

Andy

I agree. :thumbsup:

[That Ron Dude]

I think of him as one of the greatest technicians in the media, both in figure drawing and inking. I think that history would treat him better had he been associated with a very popular character. He has no Spider-Man or Fantastic Four. He has Hawkman and Sgt. Rock. (Without splitting hairs, have I left out any major character that he did?) Did he ever do a singular book or short series that struck it both popularly and critically, like FF48-50, the Watchmen, Maus, The Dark Knight, or Contract with God? I don't think he had a huge fan following like Kirby, Ditko, Barks, Crumb, Miller, or Rob Liefeld (no joke intended). I think much of what we make of an artist is based on how we were effected emotionally by them. I don't think he effected a lot of people emotionally. Some, yes, a lot, no.

[MisterX]

I have never understood the absence of Hawkman from this image. Pretty sure his work on that character covered one of the longest spans in his career...

He certainly did Hawkgirl justice, as in Justice League.

Yeah, I said it. JLA72 is one of my all-time favorite covers EVER.

 

 

You know what would be awesome?

 

If on the first page Hawkwoman starting licking...nevermind.

[Logan510]

That cap is godawful. I hate to say it as Neal's peak period work is one of my very favorites and I'd put him in my top 10 of all time.... but you can really see how Neal was flash and style and guys like Kubert and Kirby were substance.

 

In that way, Neal is not unlike (a much better version) of Liefeld or name another hot 90s artist. A lot of flash and innovative techniques but as he got older and the verve wore off the art really really suffered.

 

Please keep in mind I have lots of respect for Neal's art and very little for Liefeld's. I'm not saying Neal = Liefeld. But I am saying that both were "flashy" and flash is typically more fleeting than substance. If you can draw "well" without needing to draw "pretty" you can keep that up for a long long time if you work hard enough at it.

 

Implying that Neal's work was mostly flash is a disservice to his level of skill IMHO.

[Dr. Balls]

That cap is godawful. I hate to say it as Neal's peak period work is one of my very favorites and I'd put him in my top 10 of all time.... but you can really see how Neal was flash and style and guys like Kubert and Kirby were substance.

 

In that way, Neal is not unlike (a much better version) of Liefeld or name another hot 90s artist. A lot of flash and innovative techniques but as he got older and the verve wore off the art really really suffered.

 

Please keep in mind I have lots of respect for Neal's art and very little for Liefeld's. I'm not saying Neal = Liefeld. But I am saying that both were "flashy" and flash is typically more fleeting than substance. If you can draw "well" without needing to draw "pretty" you can keep that up for a long long time if you work hard enough at it.

 

There is an "artist" and there is a "master" - when it comes to art.

 

I don't consider myself a Neal Adams "fan" (I don't collect his work specifically), but I think he made a huge impact on comics in terms of realism and illustration quality - and artistically speaking, his mastery of anatomy, style and storytelling put him in a class all on his own with the masters of the medium.

 

The Liefelds or Silvestris or Platts of recent comic book art are more along the flashes that you're talking about. They have plenty of style and coolness, but I definitely don't look at them as masters in comic art - they are artists with a cool style that makes me go 'ooh' and 'ahhh' - and in the case of Leifeld: 'barrrrrrrrrrrrf'.

 

At least, that's how I see it.

[adamstrange]

I think of him as one of the greatest technicians in the media, both in figure drawing and inking. I think that history would treat him better had he been associated with a very popular character. He has no Spider-Man or Fantastic Four. He has Hawkman and Sgt. Rock. (Without splitting hairs, have I left out any major character that he did?) Did he ever do a singular book or short series that struck it both popularly and critically, like FF48-50, the Watchmen, Maus, The Dark Knight, or Contract with God? I don't think he had a huge fan following like Kirby, Ditko, Barks, Crumb, Miller, or Rob Liefeld (no joke intended). I think much of what we make of an artist is based on how we were effected emotionally by them. I don't think he effected a lot of people emotionally. Some, yes, a lot, no.

 

Kubert was a first rate story teller and for all his craft he was entirely focused on using it to serve the ends of the story, as he had been trained to do by Shelly Mayer.

 

Sgt Rock is the quintessential American GI, created by Robert Kanigher but brought to life by Kubert. Their Sgt Rock was much more adult than the superhero comics fare and was read and respected by those in the military even though it never achieved much cult status with the geek community of comic collectors. His original Sgt Rock and Enemy Ace series are what I consider to be his best.

[Jeffro.]

 

The point I am making is that Kubert still drew beautifully in the same style he always did. even when he was 70 (plus).

 

 

I disagree slightly. Joe did lose a little bit. It was no where near as pronounced as Neal's dropoff but it was there.

 

Is it a dropoff or is it an artist who's been a pro for close to 50 years developing and changing over the course of time and you not liking the direction he went?

 

I think it could be both. Look at Frank Miller. His stuff is very hard to look at right now. Then compare it to the work he was doing on Daredevil in the 80's.

 

I realize that artist's styles will evolve but that doesn't mean it's better. Neal's 70s stuff is at the peak of his ability. it's beautiful to look at. His recent stuff not so much

[Jeffro.]

 

The point I am making is that Kubert still drew beautifully in the same style he always did. even when he was 70 (plus).

 

 

I disagree slightly. Joe did lose a little bit. It was no where near as pronounced as Neal's dropoff but it was there.

 

Is it a dropoff or is it an artist who's been a pro for close to 50 years developing and changing over the course of time and you not liking the direction he went?

Here's a review of Joe Kubert Presents #1, released Oct 2012, with him passing August 2012 at 85. The cover art is dated 2011: CBR

Eighty five. If his art was deteriorating at all, I just don't see it.

 

 

I was thinking of one of the Sgt Rock HC books he did in recent years. Didn't look to me like his best work.

[Logan510]

 

The point I am making is that Kubert still drew beautifully in the same style he always did. even when he was 70 (plus).

 

 

I disagree slightly. Joe did lose a little bit. It was no where near as pronounced as Neal's dropoff but it was there.

 

Is it a dropoff or is it an artist who's been a pro for close to 50 years developing and changing over the course of time and you not liking the direction he went?

 

I think it could be both. Look at Frank Miller. His stuff is very hard to look at right now. Then compare it to the work he was doing on Daredevil in the 80's.

 

I realize that artist's styles will evolve but that doesn't mean it's better. Neal's 70s stuff is at the peak of his ability. it's beautiful to look at. His recent stuff not so much

Better is just an opinion. I prefer a lot of Neal's older work myself, but I have massive respect for any artist who's been doing it for as long as he has and is willing to try different things in his work even if some of those experiments may not make all the fans happy.

[Senormac]

 

The point I am making is that Kubert still drew beautifully in the same style he always did. even when he was 70 (plus).

 

 

I disagree slightly. Joe did lose a little bit. It was no where near as pronounced as Neal's dropoff but it was there.

 

Is it a dropoff or is it an artist who's been a pro for close to 50 years developing and changing over the course of time and you not liking the direction he went?

Here's a review of Joe Kubert Presents #1, released Oct 2012, with him passing August 2012 at 85. The cover art is dated 2011: CBR

Eighty five. If his art was deteriorating at all, I just don't see it.

 

 

I've never seen that piece before. Thats really excellent. I can see Tarzan being swapped out for the Hawks pretty easily too.

[Park]

I think of him as one of the greatest technicians in the media, both in figure drawing and inking. I think that history would treat him better had he been associated with a very popular character. He has no Spider-Man or Fantastic Four. He has Hawkman and Sgt. Rock. (Without splitting hairs, have I left out any major character that he did?) Did he ever do a singular book or short series that struck it both popularly and critically, like FF48-50, the Watchmen, Maus, The Dark Knight, or Contract with God? I don't think he had a huge fan following like Kirby, Ditko, Barks, Crumb, Miller, or Rob Liefeld (no joke intended). I think much of what we make of an artist is based on how we were effected emotionally by them. I don't think he effected a lot of people emotionally. Some, yes, a lot, no.

 

Kubert was a first rate story teller and for all his craft he was entirely focused on using it to serve the ends of the story, as he had been trained to do by Shelly Mayer.

 

Sgt Rock is the quintessential American GI, created by Robert Kanigher but brought to life by Kubert. Their Sgt Rock was much more adult than the superhero comics fare and was read and respected by those in the military even though it never achieved much cult status with the geek community of comic collectors. His original Sgt Rock and Enemy Ace series are what I consider to be his best.

 

I never really connected with any artist other than Joe Kubert. His work on Sgt. Rock is what made those books memorable and why I collect them and read them today.

 

I am bummed that I was never able to meet him but I am very happy that I get to enjoy his work and to me his work fits the definition of great.