90's comic bubble burst

[Beige]

You will find though guys, there are one or two of us who are quite happy to buy/slab/sell - in fact thats all we do, and then buy GA/SA "keys".

In my case,purely 1st appearances, which will always be a 'first appearance'.

I feel this really is a buffer against any uber-crash.

Maybe not so much of a buffer, but at least it's one.

 

Others who buy the 'modern keys' at nose-bleed grades/prices and keep them hoping for 5 year growth - well, they may have a problem.

[Comicopolis]

Great thread and some great posts.

[ComicConnoisseur]

Could someone give me the general overview as to what happened in the 90s as many in the modern section refer to it and im curious to what exactly went down.

 

Thanks

 

I owned a comic shop in the mid-90's and it's hard to pin it to one thing. Comic book creators acted like bltchy rock stars not caring if they were late for anything, Wizard magazine influenced the market with the clout of it's totally awesome publication, comic book collectors had no idea what "print run" meant, nor how it affected the collectibility of a comic, and publishers gouged consumers in every way possible with custom paper stock, variants, mail aways and anything to get them to buy multiple copies.

When people went to cash in and resell all the manufactured collectibles they bought - there was no one wanting to buy them. So the guy who paid $150 for 5 copies of Lady Death Lingerie was not only left with a comic that no one wanted, be he couldn't even sell it back to comic shops for a fraction of what they originally paid for it under the impression it would be worth more at a later date - it left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths.

 

.

You nailed it with comic book creators acting like person_without_enough_empathyy rocks stars,wizard`s influence and how print run affected collectiblity.

With the Image rock stars we found out quickly why these artists needed Marvel editors. These Image guys were the king of being late. Some comics retailers had to wait for 6 months for their Image comics. We all know about Rob Liefeld`s lateness, but what about Dale Keown`s Pitt? Man Pitt could have been one of those iconic creations,but because of Keown`s lateness it is now just fondly remembered.

With Wizard they were like Beckett was to baseball cards,as they were the pied pipers for a longtime leading impressionable young people as to what was "hot"

Next those million comic book print runs.

What people of that era didn`t seem to realize was the reason a lot of the golden age were worth so much is because there is hardly any of them left.

Yep those 1990s comic books and baseball cards was like printing money.

 

[DeliBebek]

Could someone give me the general overview as to what happened in the 90s as many in the modern section refer to it and im curious to what exactly went down.

 

Thanks

 

I owned a comic shop in the mid-90's and it's hard to pin it to one thing. Comic book creators acted like bltchy rock stars not caring if they were late for anything, Wizard magazine influenced the market with the clout of it's totally awesome publication, comic book collectors had no idea what "print run" meant, nor how it affected the collectibility of a comic, and publishers gouged consumers in every way possible with custom paper stock, variants, mail aways and anything to get them to buy multiple copies.

When people went to cash in and resell all the manufactured collectibles they bought - there was no one wanting to buy them. So the guy who paid $150 for 5 copies of Lady Death Lingerie was not only left with a comic that no one wanted, be he couldn't even sell it back to comic shops for a fraction of what they originally paid for it under the impression it would be worth more at a later date - it left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths.

 

.

You nailed with comic book creators acting like person_without_enough_empathy rocks stars,wizard`s influence and how print run affected collectiblity.

With the Image rock stars we found out quickly why these artist needed Marvel editors. These Image guys were the king of being late. ...

Was it really "creators" or specifically pencillers? When I first started perusing back issue catalogs in the early 80s, it was common to see things like "first Byrne pencils" or "first Perez pencils" and there was this sense of a superstar artist that grew throughout the 80s, culminating in McFarlane, Lee and Liefeld. Despite the industry having some great artists in the past 20 years, I think the collector side of the industry has resisted the stampede toward superstar artists, not wanting to repeat a negative experience. There is more of a tendency toward the superstar writer, or superstar publisher, with a lot of people looking for Image, specifically Kirkman's Skybound imprint, to produce the next Walking Dead, or for whatever Vaughn does next to be a breakout like Y was.

[zosocane]

Sometimes I wonder if the current market for variants, multi-cross-overs, multi character titles, killing key characters, resurrecting them, (I'm finger-pointing Marvel here), is going to result in another massive drop in interest from readers where they say, "I'm sick of this." Fortunately print runs are much lower today, and in one sense digital comics might preserve the collectability of hard-copy comics, because there will be less supply but hopefully steady demand.

[Rob]

Gatsby hit the nail on the head. Whereas in hindsight everyone talks about how silly and stupid the whole thing was, no one wants to admit how cool it was. Kind of like mullets and hair metal. Sure, you can only make fun of it now, but at the time, it was the thing to do. Like the housing market in 2005, it was hard not to get caught up in the market, hoping to buy something for $20 and sell it later for $100, as you saw others do with issues you missed out on.

[Spiderphill]

Another bubble burst thread about the 90s. I'm so interested. TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME

[Spiderphill]

Just bought 10293 cases of superior spiderman 2 TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME TELL ME

[joecgcmaniac]

Just seeing how all these collectors are acting like there is no way another crash could ever happen is going to make watching this bubble burst fun to watch

 

[ThoseBackPages]

Just seeing how all these collectors are acting like there is no way another crash could ever happen is going to make watching this bubble burst fun to watch

 

collectors do not care about crashes

[Bodhi396]

I just posted about the 90s comic crash on my blog and linked to the Weekly Standard article that has been discussed. It seemed like the best article I could find on the web about it. I think there is room for someone to write the definitive article about the 90s comic crash though.

[comix4fun]

Just seeing how all these collectors are acting like there is no way another crash could ever happen is going to make watching this bubble burst fun to watch

 

collectors do not care about crashes

 

 

When the titles they collect and love get canceled because they were floating on the hype and fluff of a speculator boom and bust they actually really do care.

 

They care even more if they lose an LCS to it.

 

They care a lot in those circumstance.

[ThoseBackPages]

Just seeing how all these collectors are acting like there is no way another crash could ever happen is going to make watching this bubble burst fun to watch

 

collectors do not care about crashes

 

 

When the titles they collect and love get canceled because they were floating on the hype and fluff of a speculator boom and bust they actually really do care.

 

They care even more if they lose an LCS to it.

 

They care a lot in those circumstance.

 

Fair points. as a collector, i hadnt thought about them.

[joecgcmaniac]

Just seeing how all these collectors are acting like there is no way another crash could ever happen is going to make watching this bubble burst fun to watch

 

collectors do not care about crashes

 

 

When the titles they collect and love get canceled because they were floating on the hype and fluff of a speculator boom and bust they actually really do care.

 

They care even more if they lose an LCS to it.

 

They care a lot in those circumstance.

 

Not to mention when online book sellers also go down, leaving fewer avenues to buy books from.

 

[comix4fun]

Gatsby hit the nail on the head. Whereas in hindsight everyone talks about how silly and stupid the whole thing was, no one wants to admit how cool it was. Kind of like mullets and hair metal. Sure, you can only make fun of it now, but at the time, it was the thing to do. Like the housing market in 2005, it was hard not to get caught up in the market, hoping to buy something for $20 and sell it later for $100, as you saw others do with issues you missed out on.

 

 

 

 

 

I was in college and law school during much of that time period. In addition to being in law enforcement part time, and working clerking jobs, I was a comic show dealer. The comics paid most of the tuition bills, frankly.

 

The variant covers, the endless parade of pert nippled ladies on covers that had nothing to do with the story inside, the mad dash to catch something that was going to pay for their retirement, all those factors were there. Sound familiar yet?

 

There were many factors in the boom/bust of the 90's. Image and Marvel giant overprints of books, enormous speculation well beyond the scope of actual market and customer base, every book being a variant, every cover being covers in T&A, a bazillion small press being pushed as the "next big whatever" and being bought in number that would put them on the top of the charts now.

 

For right now I will give you my experience with Valiant comics, and how they factored into the mayhem.

 

It was fun to make money. I started buying valiants when they first were released. After reading Magnus #1 I was hooked and I bought as many as I could because I thought they were the highest quality books with some of the best writer and artist teams going. At the time, the first few months of valiant, there wasn't a huge rush to get them and I really picked them up out of love for the material and faith other people would like it too.

 

Then after 6 or 7 issues it would be revealed that 3-5 months back some plot element or first appearance occurred and it would make the price of the back issue jump. That pattern kept happening but the window kept getting shorter. It went from 3-5 months later that the importance of the book would be revealed to 1 month, then it was a week after release until finally it was when the book hit the stands. People would scour these issues upon release to discover their ultimate relevance like they were CSI agents.

 

The entire thing jumped the shark when word would get out of an issue's relevance before the order cut off date, meaning dealers could up their orders (and the print run) to the moon if they got a "hot tip" and wanted to speculate with the rent money. That book, that moment, was Rai and the Future Force #9.

 

When I heard the rumors about the significance of the book before I could even place my orders through Diamond I stepped back and realized the thing that was driving the value of these books, (limited supply, high demand) was about to flip on its head. About the same time I decided to move some of my pre-unity Valiant sets that I had kept for myself. They had escalated to such insane price levels I had considered it before, but the market precipice I saw it nearing made the decision easier.

 

Trade a pre-unity set for a run of ASM from 40 - 150 in almost all nm- or better? You got it.

 

Trade a pre-unity set with all the strange variants for a VG/FN copy of Amazing Fantasy 15? You've twisted my arm, but ok.

 

I Traded my last set the week after Rai and the Future Force #9 hit the stands.

 

I spent much of the next 10 years picking up those pre-unity books, mostly out of dollar boxes.

 

There's always a catch to these gold rushes. The first in should have the discipline to be the first out or they will get burned.

 

I still have several boxes full of books that I didn't move quick enough at the time, There's rarely time to move everything, while the market begins to eat itself all around you.

[comix4fun]

Just seeing how all these collectors are acting like there is no way another crash could ever happen is going to make watching this bubble burst fun to watch

 

collectors do not care about crashes

 

 

When the titles they collect and love get canceled because they were floating on the hype and fluff of a speculator boom and bust they actually really do care.

 

They care even more if they lose an LCS to it.

 

They care a lot in those circumstance.

 

Fair points. as a collector, i hadnt thought about them.

 

 

Some really good titles got caught in the grinder of that 90's bust.

I think, locally, we had 6 shops within 10 miles of where I lived and when the dust settled we had one. Scary times.

[joecgcmaniac]

Just seeing how all these collectors are acting like there is no way another crash could ever happen is going to make watching this bubble burst fun to watch

 

collectors do not care about crashes

 

 

When the titles they collect and love get canceled because they were floating on the hype and fluff of a speculator boom and bust they actually really do care.

 

They care even more if they lose an LCS to it.

 

They care a lot in those circumstance.

 

Fair points. as a collector, i hadnt thought about them.

 

 

Some really good titles got caught in the grinder of that 90's bust.

I think, locally, we had 6 shops within 10 miles of where I lived and when the dust settled we had one. Scary times.

 

At least you had one store survive, around here we had 7 shops in a 20 mile area, and none of them survived.

[Tony S]

Just seeing how all these collectors are acting like there is no way another crash could ever happen is going to make watching this bubble burst fun to watch

 

collectors do not care about crashes

 

Exactly. It's the "investors" that care about crashes. People that "invest" in brand new, marketed as a collectible stuff need to call themselves what they are. "Speculators". The speculators are still around too - just visit the modern forum.

 

I sold lots of Valiants back in the day. But I sold them within a very short time frame of buying them- never more than a month. In the stock market I think they call that dancing close to the door. I never sold my own personal copies, the ones on my pull list from the LCS. Because the core pre-unity books were actually great reading. Shooter, Smith, Layton and others were turning out some really entertaining stories. I also enjoyed McFarlane's run on ASM - and did the same. Kept my own, bought copies for resale and sold them quick.

 

Since I've always done only mail order - and for a few years in the early 90's shows - I've always had the luxury of only buying/selling stuff I like. And I never bought new books from distributors. So I never really got caught up in the boom or the bust of new issue distribution. I did witness the insanity - and then watched the herd get trimmed down mighty fast.

 

 

[COI]

The irony to me is that when I look back at the period in mainstream comics from 1996-2000, it was really a great time for enjoyable comics. Comics crashed in the sense that the industry shrank and the retail side shrank, both for new and back issue comics. The quality of comics took a necessary upswing to keep what readers were still trying to read them.

 

Funny, I was in high school during this period and started reading comics as a kid during from the mid-1980s to the early 1990s, and I had no idea any of this speculation stuff was going on. Like you, I was just looking for good comics to buy on my meager budget.

 

I like what happened. Comics were in the mainstream from the late 1980s and early 1990s and that got me hooked, and the post-crash period where quality>quantity kept me interested and reading during my teen years.

 

I love reading all of these experiences now, because they completely eluded me at the time. I was just a kid enjoying his comics. And the books so many consider "drek" I have a soft spot for, because I enjoyed them as a kid as opposed to speculating on them as an adult.

 

 

[THB]

You will find though guys, there are one or two of us who are quite happy to buy/slab/sell - in fact thats all we do, and then buy GA/SA "keys".

In my case,purely 1st appearances, which will always be a 'first appearance'.

I feel this really is a buffer against any uber-crash.

Maybe not so much of a buffer, but at least it's one.

 

Others who buy the 'modern keys' at nose-bleed grades/prices and keep them hoping for 5 year growth - well, they may have a problem.

 

You have me taught me well Obi-Wan 70. Best advice anyone can give.