Poll, how should CGC grade tape on a comic?

[rjpb]

I usually consider repairative tape to limit a book to the VG range, and then only if it's a small amount and the book is otherwise nicer. The More Fun that got a 7.0 with tape repair is seriously overgraded IMHO.

 

The least that should be done, is to give a book no higher a grade than it would have received had the tape not been added. It's usually not that difficult to tell if tape is reinforcing a staple or cover a major spine split, and if one can't tell, then proceed as if that was the purpose.

 

If the taping is obtrusive - the grade should be lower for having used it.

 

There also might have to be some re-evaluation as to how hard a book is slammed for having a detached cover, particularly single staple Golden Age books. A high grade looking book with a 1" spine split has more physical damage to the spine than one with a popped staple, the only advantage being the cover is still attached. I'm not suggesting they be treated the same ( and for many a detached cover is a defect they can't abide), but I can see an 8.0+ book in appearance being considered to be in the VG range of grades due to a detached cover.

 

While we are all familiar with the refrain, buy the book not the label, the big number in the corner, and the color coding of labels has clouded the considerations that buyers used to make independently when buying a book. A dealer would grade a book and then list issues like tape, cleaned and pressed, writing on cover, tear seals, detached centerfold, etc., and then the buyer made a decision as to whether they thought the price reflected the issues with a book or if they were acceptable to them. Wether these issues were considered restoration or flaws was less important than whether a potential buyer would be content with them at the price asked.

 

I find it a bit bizarre when the boards are congratulatory on a book receiving a CGC grade a full two points higher than the consensus of the raw grade ( including those that had seen the book first hand). The book hasn't changed, but now the owner will feel justified in selling the book as a nicer copy than they would have dared raw, and I wouldn't blame them, CGC has spoken and that's what many buyers care about most. I'm not immune from the thrill of getting a higher grade from CGC than I would have assigned myself, but if it were too divergent, I'd feel a bit uneasy about it.

 

[comicwiz]

These tape threads are way too ahead of the discussion for me, because I'm not past the point of believing CGC should be allowed to grade comics.

[miraclemet]

Non-archival tape damages books and should not be encouraged.

 

Use of archival tape could in certain cases preserve a comic book that is deteriorating.

 

I voted therefore for the taping to be ignored when grading a book.

 

If a key comic with a detached cover is bought, taped and then resubmitted and there was no change in grade then there would be no incentive to tape it with non-archival tape.

 

 

Intersting point, so basically, where tape is present, grade it as if it didn't have tape.

 

I still say adding anything to a book should change it from being unversal to restored (and maybe we just need to change the "Restored" moniker to "Restored/Conserved")

 

Heck they could note it on the label whether it was Restoration or Conservation just like they note Pro/Amateur.

[miraclemet]

These tape threads are way too ahead of the discussion for me, because I'm not past the point of believing CGC should be allowed to grade comics.

 

You want to modify the thread title to "Pol, how should CGC grade..."?

[comicwiz]

These tape threads are way too ahead of the discussion for me, because I'm not past the point of believing CGC should be allowed to grade comics.

 

You want to modify the thread title to "Pol, how should CGC grade..."?

 

CGC shouldn't be grading comics. No poll result will change that belief. (thumbs u

[Dr. Balls]

These tape threads are way too ahead of the discussion for me, because I'm not past the point of believing CGC should be allowed to grade comics.

 

You want to modify the thread title to "Pol, how should CGC grade..."?

 

CGC shouldn't be grading comics. No poll result will change that belief. (thumbs u

 

Ok, I'll bite. What do you think CGC should be doing?

[comicwiz]

These tape threads are way too ahead of the discussion for me, because I'm not past the point of believing CGC should be allowed to grade comics.

 

You want to modify the thread title to "Pol, how should CGC grade..."?

 

CGC shouldn't be grading comics. No poll result will change that belief. (thumbs u

 

Ok, I'll bite. What do you think CGC should be doing?

 

Does my bio say guidance counselor?

[zosocane]

here's the easy rule.

 

Add something to a book that was not there before?

 

PLOD.

 

 

the semantic war of conservation, restoration gets to far into the intent of the person doing the "work".

 

and trying to leave CGC to determine what was "new" work vs "old" work (i.e. a piece of tape put on by a kid in 1964 vs a piece of tape put on by a 47 year old speculator in 2012) is a job I dont know that they are best tasked for.

 

So just have the easy rule.

 

Add something to a book? Glue, Tape, Color Touch, Cleaning chemicals... Purple label.

 

 

 

 

I think there needs to be pragmatism to the realities of tape. Kids before the 1980s loved their books to death. Sometimes you see a piece of tape on the spine to repair an inch-long spine split. Or just a small piece of tape on the interior front cover to conserve a long tear and keep it from worsening. This was done because they wanted to hold their books together, keep them from getting worse. The taping certainly was not done with the intent of enhancing the book in the hope that nobody notices. I don't consider that book restored. A PLOD should not be the automatic conclusion. In my example, the best (not perfect) approach should be blue label, document the extent of the taping on the label note -- but NEVER cross over 4.0 territory.

[David-Lance Roten]

I don't see how it can be considered anything other than restoration.

[drbanner]

So far, one person out of 87 has agreed with the stance CGC has taken for the last 13 years when grading books with tape "repairs". Interesting...

[ChasingKingKirby]

here's the easy rule.

 

Add something to a book that was not there before?

 

PLOD.

 

 

the semantic war of conservation, restoration gets to far into the intent of the person doing the "work".

 

and trying to leave CGC to determine what was "new" work vs "old" work (i.e. a piece of tape put on by a kid in 1964 vs a piece of tape put on by a 47 year old speculator in 2012) is a job I dont know that they are best tasked for.

 

So just have the easy rule.

 

Add something to a book? Glue, Tape, Color Touch, Cleaning chemicals... Purple label.

 

 

 

 

I think there needs to be pragmatism to the realities of tape. Kids before the 1980s loved their books to death. Sometimes you see a piece of tape on the spine to repair an inch-long spine split. Or just a small piece of tape on the interior front cover to conserve a long tear and keep it from worsening. This was done because they wanted to hold their books together, keep them from getting worse. The taping certainly was not done with the intent of enhancing the book in the hope that nobody notices. I don't consider that book restored. A PLOD should not be the automatic conclusion. In my example, the best (not perfect) approach should be blue label, document the extent of the taping on the label note -- but NEVER cross over 4.0 territory.

 

Agree with this ALMOST 100%. I do think a book should be able to cross over 4.0. There were a lot of comic collectors in the early days who would put tape on the spine of a comic to reinforce it without knowing that they were damaging it. I've seen NM- level books with tape over the staples for no apparent reason whatsoever, should that make the book a 4.0? Maybe... But not in my opinion.

[nearmint]

I don't see how it can be considered anything other than restoration.

 

Tape repairs, it doesn't restore.

[miraclemet]

I think there needs to be pragmatism to the realities of tape. Kids before the 1980s loved their books to death. Sometimes you see a piece of tape on the spine to repair an inch-long spine split. Or just a small piece of tape on the interior front cover to conserve a long tear and keep it from worsening. This was done because they wanted to hold their books together, keep them from getting worse. The taping certainly was not done with the intent of enhancing the book in the hope that nobody notices. I don't consider that book restored. A PLOD should not be the automatic conclusion. In my example, the best (not perfect) approach should be blue label, document the extent of the taping on the label note -- but NEVER cross over 4.0 territory.

 

Your descriptions get into intent (why someone would use tape), which a grader can't necessarily infer just by looking at a book and a piece of tape.

 

So are you saying all tape should maintain a universal tag (but with the grade reduction)?

 

[miraclemet]

I don't see how it can be considered anything other than restoration.

 

Tape repairs, it doesn't restore.

 

semantics...

 

Which is why I think they should change it to a Restoration/Conservation label, and put all the books with tape, glue, etc under the banner.

 

 

tape a detatched cover back on and you've repaired the book, or one could even say you've restored it (poorly) back to an attached state.

[drbanner]

In my example, the best (not perfect) approach should be blue label, document the extent of the taping on the label note -- but NEVER cross over 4.0 territory.

 

Agree with this ALMOST 100%. I do think a book should be able to cross over 4.0. There were a lot of comic collectors in the early days who would put tape on the spine of a comic to reinforce it without knowing that they were damaging it. I've seen NM- level books with tape over the staples for no apparent reason whatsoever, should that make the book a 4.0? Maybe... But not in my opinion.

That would be in line with what Overstreet used to say about tape, I think the highest grade tape was mentioned at was VG (the OS Price Guide version of the grading guide, not the OS Grading Guide version which probably has more detail).

[zosocane]

I think there needs to be pragmatism to the realities of tape. Kids before the 1980s loved their books to death. Sometimes you see a piece of tape on the spine to repair an inch-long spine split. Or just a small piece of tape on the interior front cover to conserve a long tear and keep it from worsening. This was done because they wanted to hold their books together, keep them from getting worse. The taping certainly was not done with the intent of enhancing the book in the hope that nobody notices. I don't consider that book restored. A PLOD should not be the automatic conclusion. In my example, the best (not perfect) approach should be blue label, document the extent of the taping on the label note -- but NEVER cross over 4.0 territory.

 

Your descriptions get into intent (why someone would use tape), which a grader can't necessarily infer just by looking at a book and a piece of tape.

 

So are you saying all tape should maintain a universal tag (but with the grade reduction)?

 

Yes -- because, to paraphrase nearmint, tape repairs and conserves; tape does not restore. On a book-by-book basis, I agree that it's impossible to ascertain intent. And I think because it's impossible to ascertain intent that CGC defers to the blue label. It would be draconian to automotically qualify all taped books as PLOD. But put the VG "ceiling" in place. I just don't think a NM book with a piece of tape on it can ever merit a 7.0 -- personal opinion.

[zosocane]

I don't see how it can be considered anything other than restoration.

 

Tape repairs, it doesn't restore.

 

semantics...

 

Which is why I think they should change it to a Restoration/Conservation label, and put all the books with tape, glue, etc under the banner.

 

 

tape a detatched cover back on and you've repaired the book, or one could even say you've restored it (poorly) back to an attached state.

 

I do agree with you here that taped and glued books should fall under a separate "Conserved/Repaired" label -- but it's too late now. Thousands of taped books on the census that are blue label and floating around. Could also fall under green label ... but, again, too late now.

[DrWatson]

Tape should be treated as a defect and downgraded for it .

[shrunkenhead]

Tape should be treated as a defect and downgraded for it .

 

[ThoseBackPages]

tape is unacceptable