Resto: Proposed Definition

[nearmint]

Yes, a comic with a cover is obviously closer to its original condition than a coverless copy, even one with tape, but I'd still blue label both.

 

How is a book with a foreign material added for the sake of structural improvement or conservation still Universal to you?

 

Because it hasn't been restored. Tape is not an attempt to return a comic to its original condition, which is a cover attached to an interior with staples.

[chrisco37]

Restoration is a process/procedure using materials and/or implements to improve the structural condition and/or appearance of a comic book.

 

Easy.

 

 

We've gone over this a million times over the years, but this definition is way too broad. If a comic has a sticker on its cover and I peel it off with my finger, I've improved its appearance, but have I restored it? If the bottom corner is folded under and I unfold it, I've improved the book's appearance, but have I restored it?

 

 

Ahh...the old "booger-flick impasse".

[miraclemet]

I seriously doubt CGC will go away with the Blue/Purple labels if only because there are already so many out there.

 

I could see them retiring the greens, but those were always "optional" vs universal.

 

It would simplify things (just list the defects/actions and leave the buyer/collector to determine the impact on the value of the book).

 

It also renders GPA useless (not that thats a deciding factor).

[miraclemet]

Yes, a comic with a cover is obviously closer to its original condition than a coverless copy, even one with tape, but I'd still blue label both.

 

How is a book with a foreign material added for the sake of structural improvement or conservation still Universal to you?

 

Because it hasn't been restored. Tape is not an attempt to return a comic to its original condition, which is a cover attached to an interior with staples.

 

Ok, we're just going to live in the world of agreeing to disagree. I see the grey area of conservation as more like restoration than not, so I dont consider it universal.

You see the grey are of conservation more like universal books.

 

Is any use of archival tape "restoration" to you, or is it all universal?

 

[MatterEaterLad]

All one colour, use words to explain what is detected (meaning accurately detected with consistency).

 

It doesn't get simpler than that.

 

+1

 

Professional restoration/conservation is an art-form all by itself. Seems wrong for the PLOD connotation to be implicitly negative.

[Bookery]

I'm for one color label. In the beginning purple made sense. CGC was selling their service, showing they were capable of ferreting out restored comics and highlighted it by making the label obvious.

 

They are past that, they have been established. In phase 2, just one color label and list the defects. If you list the defects or anything known, you can even list known pressing (bad or good) and remove any controversy between the Pro P's and Anti P's as well as any tape controversies.

 

THEN, as an added benefit, all the people who want the new and improved labels, can resubmit:)

 

 

I agree with everything you said. I, too, probably would have gone along with the purple label when CGC first started... it seemed an obvious choice at the time. But times change, and a decade has shown us what does and doesn't work. There's no shame in overhauling the system... and as you say, there will be plenty of "old-system" labels out there to last for many years to come for those who don't want new ones. And as long as they label all known-for-certain defects (briefly, of course), I don't see a problem with even labeling pressing on books they can identify for sure, have been told them by the submitters, or passes through Matt's service.

 

Possible example:

 

A gorgeous 9.6 golden-age Captain America (maybe even a Church copy)... but it has a tiny dot of color-touch in the upper left corner. Knocking this book down 80%-90% because it's in a purple holder makes no sense. But grading it down to a 9.4 or 9.2 does... with a notation such as "small CT UL corner".

 

Have a 4.0 book with a 2" spine split. The same book has archival tape (or glue) applied to keep the tear from spreading. Final grade at this level... still 4.0, but with a notation such as "arch. repair to 2" sp-tear". A high-grade book, might take a hit, however, for even archival repair. That same book with tape (non-archival) might grade a notch lower, however... maybe 3.5, since some damage has been added.

 

 

 

 

 

[Bosco685]

Yes, a comic with a cover is obviously closer to its original condition than a coverless copy, even one with tape, but I'd still blue label both.

 

How is a book with a foreign material added for the sake of structural improvement or conservation still Universal to you?

 

Because it hasn't been restored. Tape is not an attempt to return a comic to its original condition, which is a cover attached to an interior with staples.

 

So is that what the tape cheer was about? CGC was defaulting to PLOD if a book had tape anywhere associated with the cover?

[Cat-Man_America]

[font:Times New Roman]My proposals for change:

 

BLUE LABEL:

 

No detectible restoration

 

Professional restoration/conservation (noted in purple lettering, along with SP, MP or EP, includes cover/interior cleaning, staple replacement, rice paper, etc., reversible repairs by established archivists working in the trade)

 

PURPLE LABEL:

 

Amateur repair (detailed on label, includes non-archival tapes, glue, etc., usually applied by original owner, intended to keep the book from falling apart)

 

Indeterminate repair (may be amateur or professional, designed to artificially improve book's appearance by removal of visible flaws, such as trimming, spine relocation, color fills, pieces added)

 

YELLOW (gold) LABEL:

 

Signature Series (category opened up to include submissions of collectibles authenticated by handwriting experts to document historic signatures, thus eliminating the self-serving appearance of CGC controlled signings)

 

GREEN LABEL:

 

Incomplete or intentionally damaged books (missing pages or coupons, defaced pages with drawings, doodles, extensive soiling or stains, etc., also noted on label)

 

OK, lets see where this goes! [/font] (thumbs u

[Flaming_Telepath]

Restoration is a process/procedure using materials and/or implements to improve the structural condition and/or appearance of a comic book.

 

Easy.

 

 

We've gone over this a million times over the years, but this definition is way too broad. If a comic has a sticker on its cover and I peel it off with my finger, I've improved its appearance, but have I restored it? If the bottom corner is folded under and I unfold it, I've improved the book's appearance, but have I restored it?

 

Did you use either materials or a specific implement?

 

No.

 

So it's good.

 

In fairness, as simplistic as the above definition may be, it's the loophole jumping and inconsistancies that have brought us all to this current muddle.

 

Perhaps a loophole-less definition might get us back on track?

[mschmidt]

YELLOW (gold) LABEL:

 

Signature Series (category opened up to include submissions of collectibles authenticated by handwriting experts to document historic signatures, thus eliminating the self-serving appearance of CGC controlled signings)

 

No, thank you. And it's never going to happen either.

[mschmidt]

Restoration is a process/procedure using materials and/or implements to improve the structural condition and/or appearance of a comic book.

 

Easy.

 

 

We've gone over this a million times over the years, but this definition is way too broad. If a comic has a sticker on its cover and I peel it off with my finger, I've improved its appearance, but have I restored it? If the bottom corner is folded under and I unfold it, I've improved the book's appearance, but have I restored it?

 

Did you use either materials or a specific implement?

 

No.

 

So it's good.

 

In fairness, as simplistic as the above definition may be, it's the loophole jumping and inconsistancies that have brought us all to this current muddle.

 

Perhaps a loophole-less definition might get us back on track?

 

What if he removes the sticker with a tweezer?

[Flaming_Telepath]

[font:Times New Roman]My proposals for change:

 

BLUE LABEL:

 

No detectible restoration

 

Professional restoration/conservation (noted in purple lettering, along with SP, MP or EP, includes cover/interior cleaning, staple replacement, rice paper, etc., reversible repairs by established archivists working in the trade)

 

PURPLE LABEL:

 

Amateur repair (detailed on label, includes non-archival tapes, glue, etc., usually applied by original owner, intended to keep the book from falling apart)

 

Indeterminate repair (may be amateur or professional, designed to artificially improve book's appearance by removal of visible flaws, such as trimming, spine relocation, color fills, pieces added)

 

So, we now have two colours for restored books?

 

Yup, that should clear things up right and proper.

[Flaming_Telepath]

Restoration is a process/procedure using materials and/or implements to improve the structural condition and/or appearance of a comic book.

 

Easy.

 

 

We've gone over this a million times over the years, but this definition is way too broad. If a comic has a sticker on its cover and I peel it off with my finger, I've improved its appearance, but have I restored it? If the bottom corner is folded under and I unfold it, I've improved the book's appearance, but have I restored it?

 

Did you use either materials or a specific implement?

 

No.

 

So it's good.

 

In fairness, as simplistic as the above definition may be, it's the loophole jumping and inconsistancies that have brought us all to this current muddle.

 

Perhaps a loophole-less definition might get us back on track?

 

What if he removes the sticker with a tweezer?

 

Don't you bloody start!

 

 

You both know what I mean when I say 'implements'...tools used specifically on comics for the purposes of 'improving' comics.

[miraclemet]

thats it, lets just burn them all and start collecting video games.

[Dr. Balls]

 

Glue is not restoration. You do not add glue to where glue was before, because it was never there.

 

 

You just changed my mind on that one.

But if you are gluing a tear, you are restoring the paper to make it appear whole again, to look like it originally did.

 

I think that's where the grey area comes in that no one can seem to settle on - you're not restoring the paper because you are adding something that was never there. If you were to fix the tear with paper pulp, you would be restoring it, because you are putting something back into the book that was originally there - even if it's a different kind of paper.

[Dr. Balls]

thats it, lets just burn them all and start collecting video games.

 

I think the 'optimized' label is a champion idea, BTW.

[Flaming_Telepath]

Oh, and if we could agree the broad definition of restoration suggested (and yes, pigs might also fly) and CGC adopted it, we could then maybe move on to classifying each process on a sliding scale and then educating the buyers on the benefits/drawbacks of each?

[miraclemet]

thats it, lets just burn them all and start collecting video games.

 

I think the 'optimized' label is a champion idea, BTW.

 

alright you got me to put away the matches....

[Dr. Balls]

thats it, lets just burn them all and start collecting video games.

 

I think the 'optimized' label is a champion idea, BTW.

 

alright you got me to put away the matches....

 

Hell, even a 'optimized' notation on a blue label would be a start. You can't ignore the concerns of collectors about pressing. (I have nothing against pressing) A simple notation of 'pressed' would be a good move for disclosure if CGC wouldn't want another label.

[Bosco685]

A simple notation of 'pressed' would be a good move for disclosure if CGC wouldn't want another label.

 

On all pressed books that CGC can detect, or assume to detect?