The End Of Pedigrees?

[divad]

I also once suggested to Captain Tripps that any collector who specializes in collecting pedigree books be referred to as a "pedophile", but that didn't go over too well, either.

 

[deathlok]

Damned if I know....... I don't think the word "pedigree" appears on the labels.

 

Good quesion .....maybe Single Owner Collection or SOC would be more descriptive.

 

For instance, someone could then say..."Man, that book really SOCs!"

 

Your books SOC!

 

I like it.

[sckao]

Why PEDIGREE? Who decided the word pedigree for these type of books? Every time I hear PEDIGREE I think of DOGS. What does pedigree have to do with comics being owned by ONE PERSON. Wouldn't it of been better to have called these one person owned books... UNCIRCULATED. Or NOT CIRCULATED. I think it would of been more benifical to the hobby. More desirable if the books were called UNCIRCULATED. Pedigree sounds like your breeding these comics in a kennel. UNCIRCULATED coins or stamps sell just fine with all type of collectors. But Pedgree comics seem to sell to a select group of folk.

 

Uncirculated implies just that... NOT put into Circulation. If you buy a comic off the newstand in 1950 that means that comic was put into circulation. Even then, the term "circulation " has its degrees of difference. Does that mean being taken right off the presses? After the distributor has received it? This is term employed by Coin and Stamp collectors, but those items have very well defined distributors and origination points.

 

The word "pedigree" implies that the lineage is traceable and verifiable. So a single owner collection can be traced although the comics themselves could be purchased from a variety of sources.

 

 

If you snatch a copy before it hits the retail sector, that would be "Uncirculated", in my opinion.

 

In the Green River Collection case, since these comics were "stolen" by the sons before they were sold for retail, they theoretically are "uncirculated." Most of the other pedigrees wouldn't qualify if applied to this standard.

 

Just my opinion...

[jimm94]

(First let me make it clear I have nothing against pedigree books.)

 

Why PEDIGREE? Who decided the word pedigree for these type of books? Every time I hear PEDIGREE I think of DOGS. What does pedigree have to do with comics being owned by ONE PERSON. Wouldn't it of been better to have called these one person owned books... UNCIRCULATED. Or NOT CIRCULATED. I think it would of been more benifical to the hobby. More desirable if the books were called UNCIRCULATED. Pedigree sounds like your breeding these comics in a kennel. UNCIRCULATED coins or stamps sell just fine with all type of collectors. But Pedgree comics seem to sell to a select group of folk.

 

I hear what you're saying, but the word uncirculated would not be an accurate description of these comics. "Uncirculated" or "not circulated" would mean a copy that was never sold/distributed upon release. For example I own several uncirculated Captain America's that were hoarded by an early comics dealer, Bob Sidebottom, that were never actually sold to anyone when the issues were first published. I also own numerous uncirculated bronze books that never made it out of the comic shop until I bought them decades later.

 

Pedigree is actually a term that is used in the coin world, and is completely different from the usage of the word "uncirculated" by our numismatic neighbors.

 

I think of dog shows too when people mention pedigree, but I think it's as good as any other description. "Original owner" or "single owner collection" work fine for me as well, but "pedigree" is the best one to use when referring to a widely recognized, noteworthy collection.

 

BTW, there are a suprising number of legitimate pedigree books available on the market that can be had for $100 or less. If pedigree books were only obtainable by an elite segment of the hobby, I can guarantee you that I wouldn't have any at all!

 

 

EDIT - sckao posted much of the same info while I was still typing. Sorry!

[Timely]

(First let me make it clear I have nothing against pedigree books.)

 

Why PEDIGREE? Who decided the word pedigree for these type of books? Every time I hear PEDIGREE I think of DOGS. What does pedigree have to do with comics being owned by ONE PERSON. Wouldn't it of been better to have called these one person owned books... UNCIRCULATED. Or NOT CIRCULATED. I think it would of been more benifical to the hobby. More desirable if the books were called UNCIRCULATED. Pedigree sounds like your breeding these comics in a kennel. UNCIRCULATED coins or stamps sell just fine with all type of collectors. But Pedgree comics seem to sell to a select group of folk.

 

The coin world uses the term "uncirculated" for coins that are not in circulation. The comic world uses the term "File copy" for that same designation. Almost every important collection discovered were bought off the news stands and in "circulation". "Pedigree" is defined in websters as a "certificate of ancestry". That seems to be the correct term for these collections.

 

West

[thewallcrawler-migration]

Redhook, keep us updated on when that website will be going up. It sounds very interesting.

[FFB]

So anyway -- what was the last big silver age pedigree find? Of the ones recognized on the label by CGC I mean. Seems like it's been a long time.

[Red Hook]

Capt. Tripps' site is already up....he's got a couple of short articles about the other pedigrees already. I know he intends to expand the article section over time.

 

www.pedigreecomics.com

[namisgr]

So anyway -- what was the last big silver age pedigree find? Of the ones recognized on the label by CGC I mean. Seems like it's been a long time.

 

The Pacific Coast books were first listed for sale on Roter's web site in May of '99. I don't believe any other pedigree that is considered as such on the CGC label has been found since that time. As for original owner collections not recognized as pedigrees by CGC, I suspect it is the fabulous "Sid's Luncheonette" pedigree of Burntboy that can be considered the most recent to emerge on the market.

 

Also, I know of at least one large high grade original owner collection of early Silver Age books that is being sold currently, but not being marketed as a pedigree...

[sckao]

 

Why wasn't that recent find of Golden Age books labeled a pedigree? It was a single owner collection wasn't it? Was it because the average grade was too low?

 

I think I saw only one 9.4 and a couple of comics that graded above 9.0.

 

http://www.proxibid.com/asp/Catalog.asp?aid=1145

[FFB]

Why wasn't that recent find of Golden Age books labeled a pedigree? It was a single owner collection wasn't it? Was it because the average grade was too low?

 

I think I saw only one 9.4 and a couple of comics that graded above 9.0.

 

http://www.proxibid.com/asp/Catalog.asp?aid=1145

 

The one in Kansas? I asked Mark Haspel about it on the phone a while back and he said no because of the lack of depth of high grade key issues.

[tth2]

So anyway -- what was the last big silver age pedigree find? Of the ones recognized on the label by CGC I mean. Seems like it's been a long time.

 

Late 90s definitely was the golden age of silver age pedigrees (pun intended). From memory, Winnipeg, Oakland and Golden State (non-recognized by CGC) all came out around '97, and then Pacific Coast came out in '99. Does anyone know when Curator and Mass first emerged?

 

I'm really surprised that with the advent of CGC and the explosion of prices that no major GA or SA pedigrees have emerged post-CGC.

[tth2]

Also, I know of at least one large high grade original owner collection of early Silver Age books that is being sold currently, but not being marketed as a pedigree...

 

They really need an "I'm all ears" gremlin. Can you give us some of the issues and grades of the books from this collection, and details of publicly reported sales from this collection (if any)?

[chromium]

They really need an "I'm all ears" gremlin.

 

 

[tth2]

[namisgr]

Late 90s definitely was the golden age of silver age pedigrees (pun intended). From memory, Winnipeg, Oakland and Golden State (non-recognized by CGC) all came out around '97, and then Pacific Coast came out in '99. Does anyone know when Curator and Mass first emerged?

 

Northlands made their first appearance in '97 as well. Mass books were sold by Marnin Rosenberg several years earlier - I bought a couple (wish it had been many more) in '94.

 

We're due....

[tth2]

So no details of this OO collection?

[Aman619]

The Northlands were handled by Motor City, not Marnin, right?

[greggy]

The Northlands were handled by Motor City, not Marnin, right?

Correct!

[namisgr]

So no details of this OO collection?

 

Remember the ASM19 in 9.9? It made $12,600 on Heritage last year, down from the price paid by an earlier buyer. From the same collection, an ASM17 in 9.8 just sold (for something like $16K according to my source). A BSD of great repute acquired it from another BSD of great repute (think top tier Silver Age collectors here), who acquired it from a dealer who acquired it from the dealership that bought the OO collection. As fallout, the Curator ASM17 in 9.6 is no longer a top-census copy, and is now being offered on Pedigree.com. The OO collection consists of full high grade Marvel and DC runs from 1963 on, and many of the books have entered the marketplace already.