If Marvel is broken, how would you recommend they get "fixed"?

[ninanina]

1. stop the series relaunching and get the numbering system straight

 

 

BTW, Marvel solicitations for November have been released, and guess what we have coming?

 

Iron Man Vol.4 # 1

 

and

 

Captain America Vol.5 # 1

 

 

 

That's the second biggest reason I am no longer buying new comics.

[FlyingDonut]

None of us are thinking outside of the box - I believe we are all trying to fix an industry where not only the horse has escaped, but the barn has burned down. The key problem is that Marvel (and DC and others) blew a five year period between 1993-1998 and lost that entire generation of readers, which then has trickled down further. Yes, there were 54K people in Chicago. How many of them were children?

 

What would I do?

 

1) Eliminate half of the line. It is impossible for people to buy all the titles, so they don't. There's no reason for having four FF titles, for example.

 

2) The pamphlet is a rip off. $2.99 for something my 9 year old can read in 15 minutes is a joke. That same $2.99 rents him Halo from Blockbuster for a night. Eliminate the pamphlet and print comics in digest form only. Sell them for $4.99, or whatever and get them into real distribution areas.

 

3) Distribution is a vicious spiraling cycle downward. Because nobody outside of our little world knows books can be bought only in shops, nobody buys them, so no books are introduced, etc. ad nauseum. GET COMICS INTO REAL STORES.

 

4) At a certain point, "Comics aren't just for kids" is a [!@#%^&^] slogan. If comics aren't for kids, who is going to be buying them? Experiment with stuff. Romance comics? Sci-fi comics? Westerns? There's got to be a reason why TokyoPop sells a jillion copies.

 

5) This is the big one. Stop pandering to the fanboy. It is impossible to pick up a copy of X-Men and have ANY idea of what's going on. Try something new.

[UnrulyAppendage]

Oh, and stop relaunching series over and over.Has anyone else mentioned that one yet?

 

This will happen only when collectors stop buying them. As long as they are bought, it will continue.

[Hensley300]

oh yea, one more idea, bring back the letters column

[Illiterati-migration]

Oh, and stop relaunching series over and over.Has anyone else mentioned that one yet?

 

This will happen only when collectors stop buying them. As long as they are bought, it will continue.

 

My thoughts exactly. And THAT is the heart of the problem.

[Silver Surfer]

None of us are thinking outside of the box - I believe we are all trying to fix an industry where not only the horse has escaped, but the barn has burned down. The key problem is that Marvel (and DC and others) blew a five year period between 1993-1998 and lost that entire generation of readers, which then has trickled down further. Yes, there were 54K people in Chicago. How many of them were children?

 

What would I do?

 

1) Eliminate half of the line. It is impossible for people to buy all the titles, so they don't. There's no reason for having four FF titles, for example.

 

2) The pamphlet is a rip off. $2.99 for something my 9 year old can read in 15 minutes is a joke. That same $2.99 rents him Halo from Blockbuster for a night. Eliminate the pamphlet and print comics in digest form only. Sell them for $4.99, or whatever and get them into real distribution areas.

 

3) Distribution is a vicious spiraling cycle downward. Because nobody outside of our little world knows books can be bought only in shops, nobody buys them, so no books are introduced, etc. ad nauseum. GET COMICS INTO REAL STORES.

 

4) At a certain point, "Comics aren't just for kids" is a [!@#%^&^] slogan. If comics aren't for kids, who is going to be buying them? Experiment with stuff. Romance comics? Sci-fi comics? Westerns? There's got to be a reason why TokyoPop sells a jillion copies.

 

5) This is the big one. Stop pandering to the fanboy. It is impossible to pick up a copy of X-Men and have ANY idea of what's going on. Try something new.

 

Donut,

 

All very good points. Perhaps some direct marketing would also help in combination with new distribution points? It seems like the only advertising comic makers do is all secondary by displaying their characters in movies, cartoons but no one has a clue what comics are out there. Surely they could do a much better job of actually showing their product to the masses on a consistent basis.

[Forbush-Man]

Oh, and stop relaunching series over and over.Has anyone else mentioned that one yet?

 

No. Could you elaborate?

 

Jim

 

I agree with smokinghawk on this one!

 

DC has continuity in the issue numbering, Marvel has "re-launched" thier titles so many times, it creates a headache! I believe, as far as this goes, it's too late for Marvel to put it "back into the box"! Sad, as I am a big Marvel collector.

 

DC's staying with the original numering system has finally given them the edge, IMHO.

[Forbush-Man]

,...not to mention I personally feel DC is putting out a superior product these days. The covers are first rate & they're re-tooling the characters without re-launching the titles.

[deathlok]

Oh, and stop relaunching series over and over.Has anyone else mentioned that one yet?

 

No. Could you elaborate?

 

Jim

 

I agree with smokinghawk on this one!

 

DC has continuity in the issue numbering, Marvel has "re-launched" thier titles so many times, it creates a headache! I believe, as far as this goes, it's too late for Marvel to put it "back into the box"! Sad, as I am a big Marvel collector.

 

DC's staying with the original numering system has finally given them the edge, IMHO.

 

DC relaunches their series also. Although not to the extent Marvel has. The only series that has maintained continuity in numbering without being relaunched is Action Comics and Detective Comics. Every other Dc title has ended and been relaunched in one form or another.

[Kevin Boyd]

Some additional thoughts....

 

In order to get product outside of the direct market they have to look at format and price. Remember, comics didn't drop stores, stores dropped comics... ask yourself why would they want them back?

 

They did so because of (a) format (they were too small and therefore awkward) and (b) too cheap (even at today's prices, they take up space that could be used to rack more expensive product). It's why Savage Sword lasted longer in the corner stores than Fantastic Four did. It's why Mad Magazine still thrives in markets where Amazing Spider-Man used to be present.

 

In order to make comics appealing to grocery stores, corner stores etc. they need to look different than they do now but similar to what they know how to sell - they have to be either digests that can be racked up front with Archie and Disney digests (DC is on the right track) or magazines that can be racked with the other magazines. But then they aren't quite comic books any more, are they?

 

Other things to consider:

 

Paper. Newsprint is great, but the cost between newsprint and better paper is negligible per unit printed. Today's pricing isn't determined by printing costs as it once was.

 

Advertising in comics. They would KILL for more advertising! If you had a product, why would you advertise in a comic book unless it's specifically for a comic book fan? You might potential reach 200,000 people in North Am by advertising in a comic book. That's a fraction of the population of the continent. It's still worth doing for movies and DVDs, because comic fans are determined and mobilized - they support "geek" pop culture if they deem it worthy. They tell two friends, then they tell two friends, etc. Advertise Pop Rocks in a comic book and nobody cares.

 

Comic books advertising outside of comics. Generally they rely on "free press" in newspapers, magazines, etc. I think it's a great idea to put print ads in publications like Rolling Stone, Maxim, Entertainment Weekly, etc. Expose a wider market to your better product. Get that comic book store locating service number out there. Right now Marvel is lucky in that they have characters all over the place - they just need to remind people that these characters are still published. Television is a great idea - do it on the cartoon network and the sci-fi network.

 

Adults over kids. Kids over adults. Comic books can be "all ages" - they don't have to be written down to for kids or written specifically for adults. Tell good stories without getting too violent or sexy and watch the language and they be open to all. Just don't write for the fanboy exclusively... but don't throw everything out to cater to the non-fan either. Tell a good story and if it it ties into a previous story, document how they fit together. The older reader will already know the story and recall it's additional details, the newer reader might be intrigued enough to go back and find the previous story.

[Kevin Boyd]

DC relaunches their series also. Although not to the extent Marvel has. The only series that has maintained continuity in numbering without being relaunched is Action Comics and Detective Comics. Every other Dc title has ended and been relaunched in one form or another.

 

Don't forget (Adventures of) Superman and Batman. They still retain their original numbering.

[Illiterati-migration]

Oh, and stop relaunching series over and over.Has anyone else mentioned that one yet?

 

No. Could you elaborate?

 

Jim

 

I agree with smokinghawk on this one!

 

DC has continuity in the issue numbering, Marvel has "re-launched" thier titles so many times, it creates a headache! I believe, as far as this goes, it's too late for Marvel to put it "back into the box"! Sad, as I am a big Marvel collector.

 

DC's staying with the original numering system has finally given them the edge, IMHO.

 

DC relaunches their series also. Although not to the extent Marvel has. The only series that has maintained continuity in numbering without being relaunched is Action Comics and Detective Comics. Every other Dc title has ended and been relaunched in one form or another.

 

I think the big difference in the re-launches is that DC makes an effort to DIFFERENTIATE the "new" from the "old". When the JLA has gone through various incarnations, they've been WILDLY different not only in the characters involved, but also in tone and style... but when the X-Men get relaunched, it's the same [!@#%^&^], different title.

 

And then you factor in the fact that DC just has flat-out better talent...

[deathlok]

DC relaunches their series also. Although not to the extent Marvel has. The only series that has maintained continuity in numbering without being relaunched is Action Comics and Detective Comics. Every other Dc title has ended and been relaunched in one form or another.

 

Don't forget (Adventures of) Superman and Batman. They still retain their original numbering.

It could be argued that Superman was relaunched from Superman to Adventures of Superman, although they kept the same numbering.

 

[Kevin Boyd]

It could be argued that Superman was relaunched from Superman to Adventures of Superman, although they kept the same numbering.

 

I suppose it could be argued thusly, but it's still the same publication. All they did was add "Adventures of" to the title. That same month "Action Comics" began a new direction as well, but kept the same numbering.

 

Do you consider dropping "Peter Parker" from "Peter Parker, the Spectacular Spider-Man" a relaunch? Or when Marvel added "Peter Parker" to the previously adjectiveless "Spider-Man"? Or when "Saga of the Swamp Thing" became merely "Swamp Thing"? Or when "X-Men" became "The Uncanny X-Men"? Or when "X-Men" Volume 2 became "New X-Men"? Or when "New X-Men" went back to being "X-Men" again?

[deathlok]

It could be argued that Superman was relaunched from Superman to Adventures of Superman, although they kept the same numbering.

 

I suppose it could be argued thusly, but it's still the same publication. All they did was add "Adventures of" to the title. That same month "Action Comics" began a new direction as well, but kept the same numbering.

 

Do you consider dropping "Peter Parker" from "Peter Parker, the Spectacular Spider-Man" a relaunch? Or when Marvel added "Peter Parker" to the previously adjectiveless "Spider-Man"? Or when "Saga of the Swamp Thing" became merely "Swamp Thing"? Or when "X-Men" became "The Uncanny X-Men"? Or when "X-Men" Volume 2 became "New X-Men"? Or when "New X-Men" went back to being "X-Men" again?

 

I wouldn't call any of those relaunches, nor would I consider Superman a relaunch. Just giving a viewpoint. DC does not have the continuity everyone seems to give them credit for. Perfect example is the new Green Lantern series. Dc ends their titles and restarts them just the same as Marvel does.

 

Marvel realized they erred with the numbering and attempted to correct it. Someone mentioned on another thread that Iron Man and Captain America were ending and being started again. The cycle continues.

[Kevin Boyd]

Marvel realized they erred with the numbering and attempted to correct it. Someone mentioned on another thread that Iron Man and Captain America were ending and being started again. The cycle continues.

 

I honestly think Joe Quesada has MPD. The renumbering thing was an idea of Bob Harras' and the Marvel execs. Quesada doesn't like it and puts the "correct" issue of Daredevil in his sig box on the covers but eventually gets bored with it.

 

Then he becomes editor in chief and restores the original number to the covers of selected titles like Cap, Iron Man, FF. Avengers, Amazing, Peter Parker. But he doesn't do it for others like Thor and Hulk.

 

Peter Parker gets cancelled and relaunches as Spectacular. No dual numbering.

 

Then he cancels Cap again, but drops the dual numbering. (And he's doing it again). He's going to do it again with Iron Man now. There won't be dual numbering on Iron Man Vol. ?.

 

Then he returns Amazing and FF to their original numbering when they hit what would have been their respective 500th issues. He also plans to do it for the Avengers, but decides to cancel it a few months later and relaunch.

 

What are you doing Joe? Which number should we be following?

[Aman619]

5) This is the big one. Stop pandering to the fanboy. It is impossible to pick up a copy of X-Men and have ANY idea of what's going on. Try something new.

 

Donut, this last one is suicide!! All thats left nowadays is the fanboys. Alienate them in an effort to go after the mythical new comics reader is one bad business decision. Like .... theres got to be a perfect analogy, but Ill get back to ya!

[shadroch]

Shad just curious how Diamond's monopoly plays into this. It is likely more cost effective unless Marvel can set up their own inhouse distribution but I doubt they would commit that kind of capital. Why bother?

 

You do realize that Marvels decision to set up an in house distribution system is what drove them bankrupt,and is a leading factor in the mess the current marketplace has become.

Competion amongst distributors was what allowed retailers to greatly expand their advertising in the 80s.

In the space of some 18 months, I recieved a new store sign,thousands of flyers,uncounted posters,a new cash register, and new racks. Simply by switching,or threating to switch my small stores monthly order.All of my print ads were heavily subsitized by my distributors.

Geppi has squeezed the profit margin on comics to such a degree that many stores can't afford to take a chance on many titles and it is almost suicidal to risk over-ordering a book.

I used to get my books delivered to my door at 50% off.

Now,many stores barely get 40% and they have to pay for the shipping on top of that.Plus no co-op money to advertise and upgrade their stores.Its no wonder the LCSs are constantly looking for the next big thing,be it Magic,or the next generation of pet rocks.

By having a single distributor,you open up many problems.

[blowout]

What are you doing Joe? Which number should we be following?

 

Like I said earlier, short-termism.

[Silver Surfer]

Shad just curious how Diamond's monopoly plays into this. It is likely more cost effective unless Marvel can set up their own inhouse distribution but I doubt they would commit that kind of capital. Why bother?

 

You do realize that Marvels decision to set up an in house distribution system is what drove them bankrupt,and is a leading factor in the mess the current marketplace has become.

Competion amongst distributors was what allowed retailers to greatly expand their advertising in the 80s.

In the space of some 18 months, I recieved a new store sign,thousands of flyers,uncounted posters,a new cash register, and new racks. Simply by switching,or threating to switch my small stores monthly order.All of my print ads were heavily subsitized by my distributors.

Geppi has squeezed the profit margin on comics to such a degree that many stores can't afford to take a chance on many titles and it is almost suicidal to risk over-ordering a book.

I used to get my books delivered to my door at 50% off.

Now,many stores barely get 40% and they have to pay for the shipping on top of that.Plus no co-op money to advertise and upgrade their stores.Its no wonder the LCSs are constantly looking for the next big thing,be it Magic,or the next generation of pet rocks.

By having a single distributor,you open up many problems.

 

Interesting stuff. I guess if Marvel contracts an outside company to handle the distribution and it flops then they have to crawl back to Diamond again and be at their mercy. Sounds like a terrible risk to take unless they can find a big player in the distribution business to sign a new contract with, but who?