If Marvel is broken, how would you recommend they get "fixed"?

[Silver Surfer]

I like story arcs but the problem is that they are being used all of the time. When you have one issue storyline it generally means that the villain is lame or ist just acting as a filler for the next big storyline. Its hard to find a balance between the two especially when the art is suspect. I think today's writers (Bendis included) are trying to mimic what Simonson did with his Thor run in an effort to create the next epic storyline that people will talk about for years to come-good luck. If you think about it the Doom arc was 17 issues in length.

[deathlok]

I know a lot of issues have been discussed in this thread about how to imporve Marvel comics.

 

Last week I picked up Fantastic Four and noticed a couple things.

 

First, the dropped the relaunch number, it only has the current 500+ number on it.

 

Second, at the back of the book there is contact information to write letters to Marvel. Apparently they are reviving a letters page for Fantastic Four.

 

Although there are many things yet to be corrected by MArvel, these are two things that have been mentioned in this thread.

[Kevin Boyd]

First, the dropped the relaunch number, it only has the current 500+ number on it.

 

Until they decide to cancel and relaunch it again. Perhaps to tie in with the movie next year?

 

Second, at the back of the book there is contact information to write letters to Marvel. Apparently they are reviving a letters page for Fantastic Four

 

Receiving letters and printing them are two different things, but I have heard that DC plans on reviving the letters page for their ongoing monthlies, so Marvel is probably following suit.

 

Although there are many things yet to be corrected by MArvel, these are two things that have been mentioned in this thread.

 

I don't think Marvel is really making headway when two months from now Avengers, Captain America and Iron Man all get cancelled and relaunched and Thor goes on indefinite hiatus. FF and Amazing completely reverting to their original numbering is even more confusing, as much as I like the consistancy of seeing FF and ASM in the 500's, those books were cancelled and relaunched. Will New Avengers #25 become Avengers #528 two years down the line?

[deathlok]

So the glass is half empty?

[Smokinghawk]

I think instead of having a dozen different "limited editions" going on, they should have one or two "watch-all" enduring series in which to present ALL their short shories.

 

For example, have a title (we'll call it "Marvel Stories" for this illustration), and start at issue #1. Run the 5 part Doc Ock limited story to issue 6. Then CONTINUE the series at issue 7 with the Elektra: Hand storyline. Then CONTINUE with the Wolvering: End storyline.

 

And since they want to have severl limited series going on all at once, they could have more than one all-encompassing title that simply continues its numeric sequence.

 

Benefits: a long-term title would encourage investment value (when's the last time a limited series went up in value? And not just slight increases, but NICE appreciate? Dark Knight?), plus it'd keep loyal readers hooked through lots of stories. Completionists would stay with the series if it continued, whereas most collectors skip limited series altogether.

[shadroch]

Hey,SmokingHawk

Some nice ideas there. Would need some fine tuning but I could see the concept working.

One thing,though. Whether or not the books increase in value shouldn't enter into Marvels plans whatsoever.

[PovertyRow]

Newsprint does not a cheap comic make anymore, but let's say they released them at 1970's prices - make it a quarter for ease. Retailers would pretty much be paying the full price to buy them and making little or no profit on them - somewhere in the neighborhood of 5-10 cents per copy, possibly less.

 

Well newsprint SHOULD make thej a heck of a lot cheaper than the gloss junk I despise so much!

 

OK - gloss junk aside - price them, based on your criteria, at 60 cents. If your spec is right that should give the dealers sufficient profit.

 

Apparantly, what is happening in comics now is not working - maybe going back to the 80's, still with newsprint, and 60 cent - hell - 75 cent - cover prices may attract.

 

Thing is they won't kow until they try.

[shadroch]

Several people have stated that comics were abandoned by the newstands some twenty years ago. Its not really that simple.

Lets look at options for now,rather than relive what occured twenty years ago.

Video stores were in their infancy when the direct market replaced newstands.They would seem a perfect fit for a new type of distribution.As video stores are worried about the increase of video on demand,it should be possible to place comics in these stores,if they were on a returnable no risk basis.

The giant drug stores like CVS and Walgreens also are a newish development and quite possibly might carry books on the same basis.

Its the non-returnable basis that books are sold that prevents many outlets from selling comics.

[PovertyRow]

Several people have stated that comics were abandoned by the newstands some twenty years ago. Its not really that simple.

Lets look at options for now,rather than relive what occured twenty years ago.

Video stores were in their infancy when the direct market replaced newstands.They would seem a perfect fit for a new type of distribution.As video stores are worried about the increase of video on demand,it should be possible to place comics in these stores,if they were on a returnable no risk basis.

The giant drug stores like CVS and Walgreens also are a newish development and quite possibly might carry books on the same basis.

Its the non-returnable basis that books are sold that prevents many outlets from selling comics.

 

I hear what you are saying but what troubles me is that much of the conversation is about marketing, distribution etc but little about stories and presentation. Thing is, kids are kids. Yes, they have tv and computers but they also have kid-enthusisam. And in looking at many of the modern Marvel comics, I don't see a lot to attract them.I find it hard to believe that most kids would not be fascinated by first encountering AF15 or FF1 or TOS 39 etc etc. But what do they have to look t? And ok - this is kind of a marketing thing but also an artistic thing - riht now they have to look at stories that have been around since their parents wwere born, if not their grandarents. What do we have from Marvel that is dealing directly with the kids the way Marvel was when they came up with that whole teen-angst fairly placed in realtiy type of story?

 

I've been purusing several ofthe current Marvel books at a local store (hard to call it an LCS as their idea of back issues is a TPB) but - how many kids can afford many TPBs today?

 

Just some thoughts.

[deathlok]

You know POV, I used to think the same thing. That by lowering the cost of books, that might encourage kids to buy them.

 

That is until I had a chat with the owner of a one LCS. In his opinion the kids today do not have a lack of money. There are plenty of ways for them to spend money, the just choose to not spend it on comics. He said he watches the spending in his shop and he talks to the kids. They have told him that they would rather spend the money on movies, video games, clothes, etc. He said that not one kid said that comics are too expensive to buy.

 

I know several of you will disagree, I am just passing along what this one owner told me.

[PovertyRow]

You know POV, I used to think the same thing. That by lowering the cost of books, that might encourage kids to buy them.

 

That is until I had a chat with the owner of a one LCS. In his opinion the kids today do not have a lack of money. There are plenty of ways for them to spend money, the just choose to not spend it on comics. He said he watches the spending in his shop and he talks to the kids. They have told him that they would rather spend the money on movies, video games, clothes, etc. He said that not one kid said that comics are too expensive to buy.

 

I know several of you will disagree, I am just passing along what this one owner told me.

 

Probabl true - but still have to wonder how young kids would respond to a modern-day counteropart to AF15 etc. And at a cheap prcie so they could still afford their technology.

 

To me, the stories and art are lacking in the Marvel books I tend to think of as Marvel. (Hell - DC too).

 

I recently made a poll in - well - the Polls area - about what you would want to see in the new FF movie. I was surprised and happy to see two things in particular: stroy over FX and an origin over an established villain.

 

I just have to wonder if a similar approach in comic books could help.

 

Main poblem? If such a venture WERE to be undertaken it probably would have had better results 10 years ago.

 

Hope this makes sense.

[shadroch]

I don't know how anyone can afford some of these TPBs

I went out this weekend to pickup the Sentry mini-series,as I was told he will be a key figure in the New Avengers.None of the three stores had any of the mimi series though one had a TPB of it for $24.95 plus tax.

Way too much for me. I picked up a Legion TPB with an interesting cover but put it right back when the cover on the thin book was $19.95.

[Kevin Boyd]

Thing is they won't kow until they try.

 

They did try. Marvel priced a number of books at 25 cents last year.

 

30 cents does not sufficient profit make when a dealer is used to making $1.50 (or more than $2.50 in the case of magazine sellers - plus they can return what they don't sell...) why would they give up the same rack space as a book they make $1.50 on to make 30 cents/copy? They would have to work five x as hard to get the same money.

 

But dealer are usually willing to try... Free Comic Book Day was not free comic day for retailers. They still had to pay the distributors for the books.

 

Well newsprint SHOULD make thej a heck of a lot cheaper than the gloss junk I despise so much!

 

I learned quite a bit about the cost of printing comics when we decided to do our program booklet comic book size. We approached the same company that printed Cerebus the Aardvark about using newsprint stock as we assumed that it would be cheaper. Turns out the slightly better paper stock cost the same amount and we ended up paying a few cents per copy either way - and that was with a print run of about 5000. Imagine what it would cost for a company like Marvel getting books printed in the 20K to 150K range from a big printing company like Quebecor... printing costs are a MARGINAL cost in the printing of comic books.

[Kevin Boyd]

hear what you are saying but what troubles me is that much of the conversation is about marketing, distribution etc but little about stories and presentation. Thing is, kids are kids. Yes, they have tv and computers but they also have kid-enthusisam. And in looking at many of the modern Marvel comics, I don't see a lot to attract them.I find it hard to believe that most kids would not be fascinated by first encountering AF15 or FF1 or TOS 39 etc etc. But what do they have to look t? And ok - this is kind of a marketing thing but also an artistic thing - riht now they have to look at stories that have been around since their parents wwere born, if not their grandarents. What do we have from Marvel that is dealing directly with the kids the way Marvel was when they came up with that whole teen-angst fairly placed in realtiy type of story?

 

I don't understand why kids buy the pop music they do either, yet kids buy it in mass quantities. Same with the movies directed at kids, I don't get them either.

 

I don't have any idea as to what would appeal to today's 12 year olds, but I've met a few that seem quite content with what they are getting from Marvel... it's only the older collectors (like us) who are vocal about the quality of content because we think we have seen better.

 

Marvel has tried with series like Mary Jane, the Runaways, Sentinel, etc. to produce the kinds of comics kids seem to want to read these days. They have not been very successful, but they are still trying - coming up with the new digest format to reach the kids on the same level as manga, which they are buying.

[hobbes]

They have not been very successful, but they are still trying - coming up with the new digest format to reach the kids on the same level as manga, which they are buying.

 

I really hope Marvel does not give up on this approach. I commented last year in another thread how TokyoPop has twice the shelf space at my local B&N as Marvel and DC combined. This has not changed. When I see kids reading "comics" it is the manga digests. Something is clicking there with kids and the American companies, not just Marvel, would do well to pursue this format. Donut mentioned the TokyoPop success once already in this thread and I agree with him on his point. Someone else mentioned Shonen Jump as being a success also. I can personnally vouch for Shonen Jump as I caught my son reading one last night about an hour after I put him to bed. Marvel needs to put a huge effort into cracking that market. The best part of trying to break in to that market is Marvel could use it as a hook to draw more talent. Why does it have to be the tried and true heroes like Spider-Man and Wolverine? Open up to new ideas in the digest format and turn some creators loose. I am not saying the content has to be a direct rip of Japanese mange either. Marvel could do it there own way but market their product in a similar format as the manga digests.

[Kevin Boyd]

Probabl true - but still have to wonder how young kids would respond to a modern-day counteropart to AF15 etc. And at a cheap prcie so they could still afford their technology.

 

Everyone would ignore it like everything else of quality that gets published that isn't Spider-Man, X-Men, Jim Lee or Michael Turner related.

 

I feel like JC asking this, but can you think of any signficiant new character launched in his/her own book (as in, not an X-Man) that has been successful?

 

Maybe Hellboy. Hellboy comics are marginal sellers though. I sold a lot of the 25 cent Hellboys at a local sci-fi show back in April (for Peter). Everyone was interested, but 200 copies at 25 cents is only $50 in sales. It cost Peter roughly half that amount to buy them from the distributor. It's a good thing that I was volunteering my time as that money wouldn't have covered an employee's shift for the day.

 

Even superstars like Jim Lee (Divine Right anyone?) and Michael Turner (Soulfire?) can't sell big numbers on their own superhero concepts. It's only when they are tied to big existing characters that they have their successes.

[awe4one]

Even superstars like Jim Lee (Divine Right anyone?) and Michael Turner (Soulfire?) can't sell big numbers on their own superhero concepts. It's only when they are tied to big existing characters that they have their successes.

 

I hate saying this....but maybe it's the superhero aspect that passe with kids. I would consider the majority of Manga, proven popular with kids, more adventure oriented than what we consider the typical superhero angle.

 

That could also be one of the answers why no significant superhero has emerged from the Big 2 since Wolverine.

 

Jim

[Kevin Boyd]

I hate saying this....but maybe it's the superhero aspect that passe with kids. I would consider the majority of Manga, proven popular with kids, more adventure oriented than what we consider the typical superhero angle.

 

That could also be one of the answers why no significant superhero has emerged from the Big 2 since Wolverine.

 

Well, traditional comics haven't turned out many, if any, new superstar characters in any genre. But I agree superheroes don't have the appeal to manga buyers.

 

And it's not the adventure manga that are necessarily the big sellers either, some of the top sellers are ROMANCE manga - from teenage girls/boys to gay manga.

The big two haven't produced Romance comics in decades, maybe this was a genre that shouldn't have been dropped?

[shadroch]

That reminds me of a letter to the editor in a DC book from about 1974. The author was trying to make two ponts. One was a complicated scheme to replace the stars of various books with heroes from earth-2,more or less bringing back most of the Golden Age characters.

His second point was that he felt that the Phantom Stranger was a superhero book and shouldn't be listed as a Mystery/Suspense genre on the subscription order form.

The editors thanked him for taking the time to come up with such a plan but explained that DC had better success with its Horror/Mystery lines than its superheroes, and after some thirty odd years many Golden Age characters had lost their edge and were not relevent to kids today.Most Silver Age heroes have now been around longer than their counter-points were when this statement was made.

I remember,as a kid,making fun of the JSAs uniforms whenever they did their guests appearences in the JLA.The Flash,Widcat and Mr. Terrific all looked so stupid.Green Lantern wearing a cape?"Turnabout is Fairplay"? How freak'n quaint!!!!!

But I digress. Why is it, though,that in the mid-70s when newstands were the bulk of sales,that Horror/Suspense books sold beter than Superheroes for DC yet a decade later they were mostly gone or an afterthought?Why did comic shops revive the cult of the hero and not the other genres as well.

[Kevin Boyd]

Good points Shad, Romance, War, Mystery/Suspense/Horror - these were all big sellers back in the early 1970's... but were dead by the end of the decade. What happened?

 

If romance has resurfaced in manga and has connected with the mainstream that way - maybe horror and war (even westerns) can make the break by doing the same thing. Maybe IDW should repackage Thirty Days of Night and other horror comics in a digest format.

 

Perhaps Hellblazer, Lucifer, Books of Magic, Swamp Thing, Witches, etc. should be resold in digest format. Actually, I don't think that's a bad idea... DC?