Zen and the art of moderation 2 2

[TupennyConan]

Some folks posted too much in this thread.

 

I haven't posted in here yet.

 

 

I post on your behalf.

 

That's like Jack London writing for Hustler magazine

 

Your post is the pinnacle of my posting career, easily. Thank you, Sal.

[THE_BEYONDER]

Dearest RMA,

 

Please stop pretending there's a sword here to throw yourself upon. This is a message board pertaining to comic books.

 

 

Your pal,

 

Reality Check

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Please stop making the issue about me. I am not the issue.

 

Tearing down individuals because we don't like them, instead of just ignoring them, is part of the toxicity of this board that the moderation team really needs to address.

 

Thank you.

 

What makes you think I don't like you?

 

 

[Jeffro.]

Despite all the memes, sarcasm, snark, etc. going on here in this thread everyone here is an adult. Most of you must see that there are definite problems here on the boards between members.

 

Of course everyone always seems to say too, "Oh, they aren't like that in person".

 

The saying is, "Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit." That's definitely true here.

 

There are 3 primary reasons for sarcasm.

 

1. Insecurity

2. Latent Anger

3. Social Awkwardness

 

This seems to sum up these boards perfectly.

 

Actually, saying "sarcasm is the lowest form of wit" is the lowest form of wit.

 

Typically people that heavily resort to it have deeper issues than what they openly share.

You must see this. There are plenty on these boards, in person or otherwise, that have this trait that tend to only speak when they are being sarcastic.

 

I would expect this type of post to come from Fantastic_Four. (not said with any sarcasm whatsoever)

[Boozad]

It's not the boobies, it's not the swear words, it's not the "PG-13" issues that are the problem.

 

It's the toxicity that motivates a person to make threats against someone else, regardless of the reason, the toxicity that jumps all over noobs for the most innocuous questions, the toxicity that inspires people to provoke people they don't like with snide commentary, the toxicity that allows peopll to openly hate one another instead of trying to resolve differences, or, at worst, not interacting with them at all.

 

That's the problem, that's what the mods, and the mods alone, can control, and that's what is being ignored.

 

There is much truth in this. Much. Too much, in fact.

 

Every single person individually has an opportunity to take something negative and turn it around.

 

It's how the Internet tends to work... anonymity brings out the worst in some people. It hasn't always been like that around here, and I've seen other forums where it isn't like that. You can see the worst of that attitude in video game forums, probably because many of the posters are teenagers.

 

RMA isn't wrong that moderation can fix it, but I've not personally seen a forum from a small company like CGC that did any better job. Well-moderated forums have two things in common that I've seen--they're not tied to companies, and moderation status is given to active users. Only active participants in a forum can moderate that forum as tightly as he's reaming Arch for not doing. It's tough for a small non-Internet company to identify unbiased and objective moderators within the community. I've seen Internet companies find good moderators for their forums--I like the Cracked.com forums and they've done a good job of it--but for companies like CGC, the web site is a peripheral entity and the boards are something they've mostly outsourced.

 

There are some active community members who are objective enough to moderate they could probably get to help a bit. It's not likely they'll do that, but it's worth considering. I'm not sure I would if I were making that decision, but I'd think about it.

 

The moderation here is outsourced, although CGC employees do have moderation capability as well (as most people know).

 

It really boils down to disagreement over how much effort moderators want put into a given site vs. what it takes to keep people here. Whoever said "it's just a comic book chat forum" is right. It's easier for moderators to "hit the squeeky wheel with some grease" than it is to sift through rivalries that are weeks, months or even years old in some cases, to figure out "who is right". Some of these rivalries are a decade old and have carried over from other places. God, how do you deal with that as an outside observer who is supposed to be impartial?

 

If I had to guess, I'd say that these moderators have other jobs to do beyond just moderating a bunch of grown men on a comic book chat forum. They're probably programmers, data entry, whatever (I don't know enough about IT to say) but I'm betting they are not "just" moderators.

 

Ultimately, it always comes down to the group dynamic - whether in public or in a private group such as this one. The ones that stick their heads up enough times get hit with the water hose in the face. You just hit the guy that stands out above the crowd and the rest learn from someone that person's mistakes and punishment.

 

Sometimes RMA is the "hot topic" because he's dicing hair so fine you'd need to find a new species to match the hair to. He's free to do it. Sometimes I am because I have an "agenda". Sometimes Cal is because he's stubborn and difficult to talk to. Sometimes someone else is (my buddy Ogami, you're the flavour of the day! ).

 

My own observation is that most people have a tough time knowing when to stop arguing. I'll include myself in that group, nay, I am the king of it, having had my share of massive debates and feeling like the victim (I may have deserved it, I may not have). Ultimately if no agreement can be made it always comes down to one side walking away to keep the peace.

 

It is the group - the dynamic, living, breathing group of individual people (humans - not anonymous chat forum identities) that is personally responsible for how things turn out on this forum. One person's post can and does affect many others.

 

I've seen this place swell up like a dead sewer rat in recent months. New members pouring in by the dozens every week - and don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with new members. Unfortunately, they are taken up by the group dynamic and will reflect whatever the group is projecting. Used to be a time you could log in once a day and get the gist of what was going on. Now it's just frenzy all the time. It's one of the main reasons I personally decided to pull back. I don't need the hassle or distraction of trying to figure out what is going on and I don't want to add to it.

 

In every relationship, whether it's marriage, neighbours, co-workers etc, It is usually the "other person" and it's always "she was a person_without_enough_empathy" or "he was an individual_without_enough_empathy" placing blame on anyone but themselves.

 

This place is no different. It's a group of people with a bunch of different relationships existing at once. What is most interesting is that just like in real life, groups of people form based on their proximity, interests or personal relationships. If a group of people know each other personally outside of this forum, they tend to "band together" in general agreement on board issues and stick up for each other (well, except for Mark1 and sufunk! ) - but partisan politics is sometimes to the detriment of the board.

 

It most often comes down to an external moderator needing to make the decision whether it's in the form of a police officer, an attorney, a bailiff or just a chat forum moderator. Why? Because it's expected that the external moderator will take the time and effort to dissect the problem with a fine toothed comb and get to the root of the problem...only they rarely do because both sides won't be honest about what is actually going on. So moderators (police, attorneys, etc) just see what people allow them to see, they moderate on that limited information and someone gets punished.

 

All that does is drive the negativity deeper, not eliminate it.

 

Eliminating negativity needs to come from within each individual. There is no other way to do it. Zero. None. Nada.

 

That only happens when someone stops talking about other people and what "they are doing wrong" and starts talking about themselves.

 

It's rare to honestly hear someone say "I take responsibility for what happened" but ultimately self moderation eliminates the need for external moderation.

 

This forum is a product of it's members, and whether everyone sees it or not, each and every person has an effect on the entire forum.

 

Overwhelming wall of words

 

 

 

 

Can someone summarise in 10 words or less?

 

Yes.

 

"Me, me , me..hey, look at me"

 

 

 

You're welcome.

 

[Jeffro.]

Despite all the memes, sarcasm, snark, etc. going on here in this thread everyone here is an adult. Most of you must see that there are definite problems here on the boards between members.

 

Of course everyone always seems to say too, "Oh, they aren't like that in person".

 

The saying is, "Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit." That's definitely true here.

 

There are 3 primary reasons for sarcasm.

 

1. Insecurity

2. Latent Anger

3. Social Awkwardness

 

This seems to sum up these boards perfectly.

 

You're absolutely right. I use sarcasm because beating someone with a shovel is frowned upon...

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

RMA doesn't need me to defend him, but he is my friend.

 

So one final thought.

 

Just because you (universal you; this applies to many board members) haven't grown as an individual over the last five years of your board history doesn't mean others have not. If you cannot see that RMA isn't the same poster that he was yesterday, a week ago, a month ago, a year ago, I pity you.

 

I sincerely, lovingly, earnestly pity you.

 

 

So, I remember RMA when he had a different name, from many moons ago...in a galaxy far away called the eBay chatboard. He got into a few "tiffs" there, mostly with one person.

He actually gave up after a while, and drifted off. He was upset, but no where near as upset as he gets on here.

 

Here he's still upset about a perceived slight to Jason (Mr Diggler) that happened eons ago...I never see Jason complain about it, because Jason...well, he's someone who doesn't get all that upset about unimportant stuff.

 

He (RMA) is also upset about a perceived slight from the Mods, something that happened at least a year ago. I don't even remember when it was, but RMA does...because he cannot seem to let go of stuff. I said years ago, that he would make a really good defense attorney, but I don't think that's his profession.

 

He's STILL upset about what? A short vacation from the boards?

 

STILL posting emoticons, making references to this vacation....He's still claiming that the moderator's job is easy,

As far as I can see... it would be easy to do mass bannings...not so easy to take stuff with the many grains of salt that are used here...and it's embarrassing to see the absolute lack of respect for the people who try to keep this place running smoothly.

 

RMA's first thread here was bashing someone who took a return, and paid return postage, he's still posting threads bashing people on eBay, the last one, was someone who didn't seem to do anything wrong other than buy something he was not comfortable keeping.

 

So, no...I don't see a change. It would be NICE to see a change, because it hopefully would result in something more productive.

 

Feel free to pity me;) I'll forget about it shortly, because life is just too short to hold grudges over this kind of stuff.

 

Hold grudges over terrorists, people who murder children...but strike vacations?

 

:shrug:

 

Still makes no sense to me...

 

 

I missed this the first time around, because I have skypinkblu on ignore, but skypinblu has lied about me privately to others, borne false witness about me, so anything she has to say about me has to be viewed in that context.

 

Suffice it to say that none of what she has said here is true, either. Skypinkblu doesn't understand the issue, because she's not interested in understanding the issue.

 

That she insists on making the issue personal, about me, in an attempt to discredit me, is also a perfect example of the problem this board has.

 

Anyone...skypinkblu, Dano, whomever...who has to make this issue about INDIVIDUALS is contributing to the toxic environment.

 

Why did skypinkblu post this? Because she is guilty of exactly what she's accusing me of: holding a grudge. She has no problem with shading the truth, or outright lying, because she wants everyone else to believe her version of me.

 

And that's really pretty sad.

 

I bear skypinkblu no ill will, even though she has consistently gone out of her way to damage my reputation. I really just wish she'd stop posting to or about me, publicly and privately.

 

That's not too much to ask, really.

 

It's not too much to ask at all.

And it would help lay to rest another issue around here which is this idea that there is some kind of collective righteousness within the forum of which a few choice individuals hold the keys to.

I'll be a pariah before I ever let someone tell me how I should think.

 

There are plenty of reasons to dislike just about anyone. We're all human, and we all have character flaws. There's no need to invent things about people, if you really want to dislike someone.

 

So when someone does...it's because there's bitterness and unforgiveness that damages the one who carries it, far more than they could ever hope to damage their target.

 

I truly hope that whatever it is I have done to skypinkblu that has caused her to carry this grudge against me, that she feels it necessary to lie about me to harm me...I hope she can someday set it aside.

 

It can only help her.

 

I'm going to finally say this. I did not lie about you. I made an error quoting a word you used in a PM, and I apologized. At one time, you wrote to me and said, that the majority of people here, were" sociopaths". I quoted you as saying "psychopaths" . I have the PM, thought I deleted it, but I did find it later, I just never wanted to go back and get back into what you said, because I didn't think it was worth it..

 

So, once again, I apologize for saying you called people here, psychopaths, you did not, you said "sociopaths. "

 

There is a difference between a "lie" and an error. I was not calm when I posted the words, because your pm to me was not meant to make me calm, it worked.

 

Unfortunately it worked again here. I did try to write to you after, but of course you put me on selective ignore. Refusing a PM (so that I had to post public ally) and then not ignoring me when you feel like it.

 

What I said about you not letting go is the truth, your popcorn stuff, your posts against the moderators, and these postings are mostly venomous.. You have very few positive posts.

 

I don't really care much about whatever else you said, but I will not allow you to post here, that I lied about something that is really so dumb...there is not much difference in the words, and I actually apologized instead of CORRECTING the error on the boards, to try to just take the heat and let it go, but you made such a big deal about breaking your silence then to call me a liar, and you have repeated it...

 

When you use the words righteous, think about the poor person you started a thread about because YOU THOUGHT they might start a charge back against you, when in fact, they had already listed the book you would not take a return for, BEFORE you started the thread (you never even checked), or your rants about stuff like personal PP.

 

 

See, skypinkblu, this is your problem: you're so involved in your version of RMA, you don't even know what I'm talking about, and you won't even bother to find out first.

 

How did you lie about me? You accused me of stealing from sellers on eBay by fraudulently seeking and obtaining partial refunds.

 

You have accused me of committing this fraud against eBay sellers, an accusation that isn't true, that's never been true, and for which you have no proof.

 

That didn't stop you from making it.

 

This isn't about you saying "psychopaths" vs. "sociopaths", and I'd forgotten completely about that because, as you rightfully point out, it's irrelevant.

 

As for the rest...again, none of it is true either. It sounds true, it seems to be true, but it's shaded to cast me in a light that isn't true.

 

You're not interested in the truth, or you wouldn't say such things.

 

Again...whatever it is I did to you to cause you to dislike me so intensely, I really hope you can set it aside, and ignore me. I say this because it's good for you. I don't have to live in your head. You do.

 

Once again...the issue is not about me. It is about the tearing down of people we don't like that contributes to the toxicity of these boards, instead of simply not interacting with them.

[The Troll King]

Despite all the memes, sarcasm, snark, etc. going on here in this thread everyone here is an adult. Most of you must see that there are definite problems here on the boards between members.

 

Of course everyone always seems to say too, "Oh, they aren't like that in person".

 

The saying is, "Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit." That's definitely true here.

 

There are 3 primary reasons for sarcasm.

 

1. Insecurity

2. Latent Anger

3. Social Awkwardness

 

This seems to sum up these boards perfectly.

 

Actually, saying "sarcasm is the lowest form of wit" is the lowest form of wit.

 

Typically people that heavily resort to it have deeper issues than what they openly share.

You must see this. There are plenty on these boards, in person or otherwise, that have this trait that tend to only speak when they are being sarcastic.

 

I would expect this type of post to come from Fantastic_Four. (not said with any sarcasm whatsoever)

 

I've been hacked?

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

You are like Cal without the histrionics. When someone disagrees with you they are either lying, impugning your reputation, are full of hate towards you , etc.

After a while when the common denominator in discussion/argument/debate is you, then part of the issue that you are struggling against is you.

You are just as involved in the types of behavior that you claim to abhor. Condescension and holier-than-thou attitudes being the most often seen.

Just a little example: You know I teach, many people here know I teach and it is a source of pride in my life.

Yet in one exchange we had (before you put me on ignore) you made a comment about my teaching and interaction with kids insinuating it must be horrible to have me as a teacher.

You make a very serious accusation yet you have no basis for the grounds you make that assumption on. You are, in short, guilty of the same behavior you accuse others.

 

Never once, in any discussion that I have seen you in have you ever shown any ability to see the other side of an argument. Never been able to see that there might be another point that is valid or worthy of consideration if it is not your own. The ability to say "you know I can see your side and while I disagree with it I can understand where you are coming from" seems to be impossible with you.

 

Once again...the issue is not about me. Please stop making this into a personal discussion. This is the problem.

 

I'm not going to defend myself; it won't solve anything, because even not posting anything at all isn't good enough for you. If that's not good enough, nothing is, and you will forever be stuck in a caricature of me that you rail against, instead of just not interacting with someone who posts very little besides emoticons and memes.

 

So please..let's focus on the issue, rather than the individual.

[Park]

Good morning, all.

[Ogami]

There are people acting in bad faith in this thread who are considered to be acting in good faith.

 

There are people acting in good faith in this thread who are considered to be acting in bad faith.

 

It has ever been thus.

[Sal]

Some folks posted too much in this thread.

 

I haven't posted in here yet.

 

 

I post on your behalf.

 

That's like Jack London writing for Hustler magazine

 

Your post is the pinnacle of my posting career, easily. Thank you, Sal.

 

 

You earned it, buddy! Hard work does pay off in the end. Also in the beginning and the middle, but no one really pays attention to those

[BlowUpTheMoon]

Good morning, all.

 

Good morning, Park.

[DiceX]

There's so much irony in this thread all the wrinkles disappeared from my clothes.

It's like the train wreck that you just can't look away from.

 

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

?

[Logan510]

Good morning, all.

 

Is it?

[Comicopolis]

Thread of the year.

 

Until tomorrow.

[Logan510]

There's so much irony in this thread all the wrinkles disappeared from my clothes.

It's like the train wreck that you just can't look away from.

 

 

I've thrown up in my mouth at least 3 times so far

Edited April 16, 2013 by Logan510

[THE_BEYONDER]

Thread of the year.

 

Until tomorrow.

 

This thread is sooooo yesterday....

[RockMyAmadeus]

At one time, you wrote to me and said, that the majority of people here, were" sociopaths". I quoted you as saying "psychopaths" . I have the PM, thought I deleted it, but I did find it later, I just never wanted to go back and get back into what you said, because I didn't think it was worth it..

 

So, once again, I apologize for saying you called people here, psychopaths, you did not, you said "sociopaths. "

 

Anyone...skypinkblu, Dano, whomever...who has to make this issue about INDIVIDUALS is contributing to the toxic environment.

 

Why did skypinkblu post this? Because she is guilty of exactly what she's accusing me of: holding a grudge. She has no problem with shading the truth, or outright lying, because she wants everyone else to believe her version of me.

Sharon doesn't hold a grudge, shade the truth or lie. You have been corrected, and I would appreciate it If you wouldn't say this about my friend again.

 

 

 

Sorry, CD, but you're wrong, and I've got proof. As already stated, what skypinkblu said wasn't what I was referring to at all.

 

The truth should be more important than blind loyalty.

 

I know you are friends with skypinkblu, so my question for you is...why don't you encourage your friend to not post to or about people she doesn't like?

 

[DiceX]

There's so much irony in this thread all the wrinkles disappeared from my clothes.

It's like the train wreck that you just can't look away from.

 

 

I've thrown up in mouth at least 3 times so far

 

Did you spit it out, or swallow?