Where have all the keys gone....OR, the decline of western civilization in comic

[500Club]

Vaughan spoke of wanting Saga to go longer than Ex Machina and YtLM combined.

[jreezy]

In the 70s there's a zillion keys in Marvel alone. Lots of characters debuting.

 

Wolverine

Nightcrawler

Sabretooth

Punisher

Ghostrider

Colossus

Moon Knight

Iron Fist

Luke Cage

Mystique

Ms Marvel

Thanos

Nova

Bullseye

 

And probably many more making first appearances in comic books. At the time they weren't considered key like they are now but we are starring to see interest in copper characters like:

 

Apocalypse

Mr Sinister

Cable (getting hot again)

Darkhawk

Deadpool just keeps getting hotter

Gambit sees peaks and valleys solid $40 guaranteed

Bishop

Carnage

 

The key first appearance books I predict that will be stupid valuable from Marvel in the future:

 

X-23

Fantomex

Flash Thompson as Venom

Superior Spider-Man

Winter Soldier

That's about it for now. Marvel keeps having yearly event books that in my estimation are the equivalent to a story arc in The Avengers in the 70s. Age of Ultron should be told in a regular Avengers comic.

 

Awesome list. I'm actually in the process of trying to acquire all the major copper keys you listed. They can be had for "cheap" and there is potential in a lot of the books listed other than nm 98.

[comicalgems]

In the 70s there's a zillion keys in Marvel alone. Lots of characters debuting.

 

Wolverine

Nightcrawler

Sabretooth

Punisher

Ghostrider

Colossus

Moon Knight

Iron Fist

Luke Cage

Mystique

Ms Marvel

Thanos

Nova

Bullseye

 

And probably many more making first appearances in comic books. At the time they weren't considered key like they are now but we are starring to see interest in copper characters like:

 

Apocalypse

Mr Sinister

Cable (getting hot again)

Darkhawk

Deadpool just keeps getting hotter

Gambit sees peaks and valleys solid $40 guaranteed

Bishop

Carnage

 

The key first appearance books I predict that will be stupid valuable from Marvel in the future:

 

X-23

Fantomex

Flash Thompson as Venom

Superior Spider-Man

Winter Soldier

That's about it for now. Marvel keeps having yearly event books that in my estimation are the equivalent to a story arc in The Avengers in the 70s. Age of Ultron should be told in a regular Avengers comic.

 

Awesome list. I'm actually in the process of trying to acquire all the major copper keys you listed. They can be had for "cheap" and there is potential in a lot of the books listed other than nm 98.

 

I've been surprised by how cheaply I can get Bishop, Mr. Sinister, and even Omega Red's first appearances. They seem like obvious long term investment books especially for the price.

 

All it takes for a character like Omega Red to take off is someone writing a story that makes him popular (again) or a movie appearance. Personally if I were writing X-Men movies I'd "kill off" Wolverine and give him the ESB treatment of Han Solo. Bring him back in the next movie but in the meantime really establish a bad villain.

 

"Ah man Omega Red killed Wolverine!?!"

[Slim Pickins]

Invincible #1 for sure. One of the best on-going series this decade. Call me crazy, but I feel more comfortable investing in that book than the Walking Dead. I feel it links all the image heroes together in a cohesive universe better than any other image book has ever done and it has longer continuity potential.

 

Is Wolverine Origins #10 variant and NYX #3 too obvious?

Will 30 Days of Night still be relevant in 10 years?

 

Here's my small list of moderns that have not been mentioned that I think are important, underestimated and probably worthless due to overprinting :

 

- Hood #1 (first Hood, he's the new Kingpin. I believe this book was not a massive print run, but i could be wrong.)

 

- Runaways #1 (first Runaways)

 

- Immortal Iron Fist #8 (first immortal weapons. Ed Brubaker and Matt Fraction created a rich world of mythology for iron fist with many first appearances of great complicated characters. We haven't seen the last of these stories.)

 

- New X-men #114 (Grant Morrison resurrects the X-Men from 15 years of unreadable garbage and creates the modern X-Men continuity we are still reading today)

 

- Deadpool #1 1997 (Those of us who read comics, and don't just stick 'em in plastic and box them away, know this is thee book. Everything that came before this was just a Deadpool prototype.)

 

As for the Copper age and the 90's that has not been mentioned:

 

-Coyote #11 (first Todd Mcfarlane)

 

-And anything with a Dave Stevens cover in NM+ condition (scarcer the better)

 

thats my 2cents....

 

 

 

[jreezy]

In the 70s there's a zillion keys in Marvel alone. Lots of characters debuting.

 

Wolverine

Nightcrawler

Sabretooth

Punisher

Ghostrider

Colossus

Moon Knight

Iron Fist

Luke Cage

Mystique

Ms Marvel

Thanos

Nova

Bullseye

 

And probably many more making first appearances in comic books. At the time they weren't considered key like they are now but we are starring to see interest in copper characters like:

 

Apocalypse

Mr Sinister

Cable (getting hot again)

Darkhawk

Deadpool just keeps getting hotter

Gambit sees peaks and valleys solid $40 guaranteed

Bishop

Carnage

 

The key first appearance books I predict that will be stupid valuable from Marvel in the future:

 

X-23

Fantomex

Flash Thompson as Venom

Superior Spider-Man

Winter Soldier

That's about it for now. Marvel keeps having yearly event books that in my estimation are the equivalent to a story arc in The Avengers in the 70s. Age of Ultron should be told in a regular Avengers comic.

 

Awesome list. I'm actually in the process of trying to acquire all the major copper keys you listed. They can be had for "cheap" and there is potential in a lot of the books listed other than nm 98.

 

I've been surprised by how cheaply I can get Bishop, Mr. Sinister, and even Omega Red's first appearances. They seem like obvious long term investment books especially for the price.

 

All it takes for a character like Omega Red to take off is someone writing a story that makes him popular (again) or a movie appearance. Personally if I were writing X-Men movies I'd "kill off" Wolverine and give him the ESB treatment of Han Solo. Bring him back in the next movie but in the meantime really establish a bad villain.

 

"Ah man Omega Red killed Wolverine!?!"

 

I totally agree with you. It just takes a movie appearance for a book to creep up and get hot. Marvel will have to venture out of the main characters eventually to keep things fresh IMO. Look at xfactor 6. That book is killin it on eBay. I don't think keys necessarily died when we got to copper or modern age. Not at all.

[comicsnyc22]

Not many DC readers on the boards? These are all Marvels...

[mysterio]

All it takes for a character like Omega Red to take off is someone writing a story that makes him popular (again) or a movie appearance. Personally if I were writing X-Men movies I'd "kill off" Wolverine and give him the ESB treatment of Han Solo. Bring him back in the next movie but in the meantime really establish a bad villain.

 

"Ah man Omega Red killed Wolverine!?!"

 

Did it work for Doomsday?

[paul747]

Invincible #1 for sure. One of the best on-going series this decade. Call me crazy, but I feel more comfortable investing in that book than the Walking Dead. I feel it links all the image heroes together in a cohesive universe better than any other image book has ever done and it has longer continuity potential.

 

Is Wolverine Origins #10 variant and NYX #3 too obvious?

Will 30 Days of Night still be relevant in 10 years?

 

Here's my small list of moderns that have not been mentioned that I think are important, underestimated and probably worthless due to overprinting :

 

- Hood #1 (first Hood, he's the new Kingpin. I believe this book was not a massive print run, but i could be wrong.)

 

- Runaways #1 (first Runaways)

 

- Immortal Iron Fist #8 (first immortal weapons. Ed Brubaker and Matt Fraction created a rich world of mythology for iron fist with many first appearances of great complicated characters. We haven't seen the last of these stories.)

 

- New X-men #114 (Grant Morrison resurrects the X-Men from 15 years of unreadable garbage and creates the modern X-Men continuity we are still reading today)

 

- Deadpool #1 1997 (Those of us who read comics, and don't just stick 'em in plastic and box them away, know this is thee book. Everything that came before this was just a Deadpool prototype.)

 

As for the Copper age and the 90's that has not been mentioned:

 

-Coyote #11 (first Todd Mcfarlane)

 

-And anything with a Dave Stevens cover in NM+ condition (scarcer the better)

 

thats my 2cents....

 

 

+1 your list is spot on !

[paul747]

Have to add.

Marvel Boy ,Young avengers (2005) #6 and #10 key first modern appearances.

[the authority]

Invincible #1 for sure. One of the best on-going series this decade. Call me crazy, but I feel more comfortable investing in that book than the Walking Dead. I feel it links all the image heroes together in a cohesive universe better than any other image book has ever done and it has longer continuity potential.

 

Is Wolverine Origins #10 variant and NYX #3 too obvious?

Will 30 Days of Night still be relevant in 10 years?

 

Here's my small list of moderns that have not been mentioned that I think are important, underestimated and probably worthless due to overprinting :

 

- Hood #1 (first Hood, he's the new Kingpin. I believe this book was not a massive print run, but i could be wrong.)

 

- Runaways #1 (first Runaways)

 

- Immortal Iron Fist #8 (first immortal weapons. Ed Brubaker and Matt Fraction created a rich world of mythology for iron fist with many first appearances of great complicated characters. We haven't seen the last of these stories.)

 

- New X-men #114 (Grant Morrison resurrects the X-Men from 15 years of unreadable garbage and creates the modern X-Men continuity we are still reading today)

 

- Deadpool #1 1997 (Those of us who read comics, and don't just stick 'em in plastic and box them away, know this is thee book. Everything that came before this was just a Deadpool prototype.)

 

As for the Copper age and the 90's that has not been mentioned:

 

-Coyote #11 (first Todd Mcfarlane)

 

-And anything with a Dave Stevens cover in NM+ condition (scarcer the better)

 

thats my 2cents....

 

 

+1 your list is spot on !

 

+2

 

I would also add

 

The Watchmen

 

Sandman (Gaiman rocked it from beginning to ebd.)

 

The Authority/Planetaey ( Ellis is the man )

 

Hellboy

 

and I think you nailed Invincible. He is the freshest character in a long time and I think dollar for dollar, a better long term bet than TWD. I'm sure I've left some good ones out buy...I'll be back

[Bosco685]

Not many DC readers on the boards? These are all Marvels...

 

More for us.

[Bosco685]

-Coyote #11 (first Todd Mcfarlane)

There were quite a few creators that debuted in the Copper Age. May as well list a few of those if you are going for a hunt list. Alpaha Flight #51 is another super bargain, along with other 1st work contributions. Neil Gaiman started off at DC with the Black Orchid mini-series. A super little read.

 

And if anyone is a great buy, it would be a certain someone that helped Gaiman make the jump into comic books. You can't go wrong with Copper Age greatness!

 

When waiting for a train at Victoria Station in 1984, Gaiman noticed a copy of Swamp Thing written by Alan Moore, and carefully read it. Moore's fresh and vigorous approach to comics had such an impact on Gaiman that he would later write; "that was the final straw, what was left of my resistance crumbled. I proceeded to make regular and frequent visits to London's Forbidden Planet shop to buy comics".

[Naelbis]

I consider G.I. Joe #21 to be a key issue, both for the first appearance of Stormshadow and because it was the "silent" issue. It has dropped a lot in value because of the movies, but it is still an unique and talked about title. It even made waves outside of the comic world as a pure artistic work which is pretty notable.

[Bosco685]

I consider G.I. Joe #21 to be a key issue, both for the first appearance of Stormshadow and because it was the "silent" issue. It has dropped a lot in value because of the movies, but it is still an unique and talked about title. It even made waves outside of the comic world as a pure artistic work which is pretty notable.

 

I would say it was long before the movies this book went down in value. More than anything, it was the flood of high-grade books that filled the market.

 

When there were only three 9.8s in the census, this book was bringing $1,700 (+). But that caught the attention of the market, and the CGC census climbed.

[comicalgems]

All it takes for a character like Omega Red to take off is someone writing a story that makes him popular (again) or a movie appearance. Personally if I were writing X-Men movies I'd "kill off" Wolverine and give him the ESB treatment of Han Solo. Bring him back in the next movie but in the meantime really establish a bad villain.

 

"Ah man Omega Red killed Wolverine!?!"

 

Did it work for Doomsday?

 

To clarify I mean a villain onscreen that convincingly takes out Wolverine. If in an X-Men movie Wolverine gets killed off or taken out (like ESB made Boba Fett a bad arse)

[Slim Pickins]

Invincible #1 for sure. One of the best on-going series this decade. Call me crazy, but I feel more comfortable investing in that book than the Walking Dead. I feel it links all the image heroes together in a cohesive universe better than any other image book has ever done and it has longer continuity potential.

 

Is Wolverine Origins #10 variant and NYX #3 too obvious?

Will 30 Days of Night still be relevant in 10 years?

 

Here's my small list of moderns that have not been mentioned that I think are important, underestimated and probably worthless due to overprinting :

 

- Hood #1 (first Hood, he's the new Kingpin. I believe this book was not a massive print run, but i could be wrong.)

 

- Runaways #1 (first Runaways)

 

- Immortal Iron Fist #8 (first immortal weapons. Ed Brubaker and Matt Fraction created a rich world of mythology for iron fist with many first appearances of great complicated characters. We haven't seen the last of these stories.)

 

- New X-men #114 (Grant Morrison resurrects the X-Men from 15 years of unreadable garbage and creates the modern X-Men continuity we are still reading today)

 

- Deadpool #1 1997 (Those of us who read comics, and don't just stick 'em in plastic and box them away, know this is thee book. Everything that came before this was just a Deadpool prototype.)

 

As for the Copper age and the 90's that has not been mentioned:

 

-Coyote #11 (first Todd Mcfarlane)

 

-And anything with a Dave Stevens cover in NM+ condition (scarcer the better)

 

thats my 2cents....

 

 

+1 your list is spot on !

 

+2

 

I would also add

 

The Watchmen

 

Sandman (Gaiman rocked it from beginning to ebd.)

 

The Authority/Planetaey ( Ellis is the man )

 

Hellboy

 

and I think you nailed Invincible. He is the freshest character in a long time and I think dollar for dollar, a better long term bet than TWD. I'm sure I've left some good ones out buy...I'll be back

 

Hellboy..... Good call. Thats definitely one of the key books this next generation of collectors will be searching for in 10 years.

 

Need to pick up a few of those for the long term.

Which "1st appearance of Hellboy" do you guys think has the best (highest) investment potential?

There seems to be three different books in the running.

-next men 21

-sdcc comics 2

-dime press 4

[Bosco685]

Hellboy..... Good call. Thats definitely one of the key books this next generation of collectors will be searching for in 10 years.

 

Need to pick up a few of those for the long term.

Which "1st appearance of Hellboy" do you guys think has the best (highest) investment potential?

There seems to be three different books in the running.

-next men 21

-sdcc comics 2

-dime press 4

 

- Dime Press #4: Prototype appearance, and potentially not as rare as originally advertised (photo of a recent Ebay listing, where the seller is offering these up one book at a time). But still, a great book to track down for a completest.

 

 

- San Diego Comic-Con Comics #2: 1st full appearance of Hellboy, which is a four-page B&W story. Estimated print run of 1,500 to 2,000 books given out at the show.

 

- John Byrne's Next Men #21: Produced four months later, and contains the 1st color appearance of Hellboy in comics (there is a 1st color drawing of Hellboy in a team sketch, never published previously). Mistakenly listed as 1st appearance by CGC for a few years before its label was corrected.

 

I would go for SDCC #2, though the other two books are also high on the Hellboy collector list. And NM #21's front and back cover art is a fantastic shot of Hellboy.

[Dr. Balls]

Comic books have a hard time pushing new characters because it's so easy to fall back on the established ones. That's probably the worst self-defeating crime that Marvel perpetrates on itself.

 

The major keys from the 60s and 70s contain all sorts of new characters that were pushed and caught on. By the time 10 years had passed, Wolverine was on the cusp of becoming very popular, and by 1988, he was in X-Men, had his own regular series and appeared in Marvel Comics Presents.

 

In 2003, Marvel introduced us to X-23, Wolverine's daughter, who - initially - was written pretty well, and considering her pedigree - she had the assets to make her a popular "new" Marvel character.

 

10 years later, she's as hot as day-old eggs and on one of the worst ensemble titles Marvel has ever produced. If X-23 makes it out of Avengers Arena and onto another book, I will be amazed (and happy). My point is, that Marvel used to know how to push characters - they have seemingly lost that ability with the changing of the guards in the past 20 years.

 

Sadly, sales dictate what happens with comics, and character development will never blossom at Marvel or DC because it's too easy to make money by making Batman or Spider-Man comics that revisit, rehash and repackage old ideas.

 

And - even when the big publishers nail something unique and new - the editorial staff is too dimwitted to figure out how to implement it and establish the character after the storyline. It's sad.

 

So I guess my is that our "key issues" have far less new characters, and more rehashing of old stuff. I mean, how many 'retrun of Gwen Stacy' keys are there going to be before people stop referring to her "return" as a key moment?

[Muaythai607]

we DID have a a new character in the AMS arc with "alpha" lets see how this character pans out..

 

Some people are enjoying the mini series big time alpha..

[Vagabond142]

A non-DC/non-Marvel studio to pay attention to, for me, is Aspen (and by association in the early days, Image and Top Cow).

 

Fathom, Soulfire, Witchblade... Vol 1 Iss 1 of each of those are heating up. I remember in 2010 I could buy a Witchblade #1 at Con for ~$20. Now? $50, mininum. And it's going up month by month.

 

Why do I think these are keys? First appearances of:

-Sara Pezzini, bearer of the Witchblade, she who holds the balance between the Darkness and the Angelus (which are both spin-off series now). Also spawned The Magdalena as a seperate series that eventually crossed over in one of the best crossover arcs in modern comics... that no one notice.

-Aspen Matthews, who becomes Fathom and literally fights an underwater civil war

-Grace and Malikai. A warrior protector of a boy, and said boy, bringing magic back to a distopian future world. (Seriously, if you haven't read Soulfire yet, GO READ IT. Truly an amazing series)

 

I will grant that Marvel and DC, being the big hairy gorillas in the room, will stamp loudest and usually get the best commanded prices for rares... but don't count the small guys out In fact, apart from X-Men, I PREFER Image, Aspen MLT, Top Cow for rarer, collectible series. I think it may be because that these are smaller publishing houses that like to keep things in house and low key. Sales are important, yes, but Witchblade, as the experiment it was in 1997, would NEVER have made it at DC or Marvel. But at Top Cow.... it did.

 

(I also cleaned up like a maniac at the Aspen booth at the Calgary Comic Con $600 worth of full runs, rare books, SUPER rare books, limited prints, limited hardcovers, JT Krul's new prose book, and a free Grace sketch by Peter Steigerwald for dropping so much money on them )