Are Golden/Silver age books really safe investments??

[shadroch]

I feel strongly my "Uncensored Mouse" issues will turn the corner and take off in value and be worth a ton of money...Dead today, on everybody's want list tomorrow!

 

A book like this doesn't have to be on everyone's want list. It just needs to be on one persons if you can get it in front of him.

[Topnotchman]

Why did he lose so much on the Avengers book?

He paid too much? Comics aren't a great investment? :shrug:

 

Most people seem to have a very naïve view of what makes a good investment. What you're buying is only half of the equation. How much you're paying is the other, more important half. An AF #15 9.0 might be a great investment at $50K. How about at $500K? How about at $5 million? There is nothing so inherently good about AF #15s that you can ignore your entry price.

 

Like I said, that Avengers #4 9.6 example is not isolated. Many high grade SA books, both keys and commons, were driven up to ludicrous levels during the Schmell/Brulato years (dragging up the value of the lower grades as well) and are now worth nickels and dimes on the dollar. Remember when FF #5 9.6 sold for $27,999 in November 2009? Three years later, in November 2012, it had become a $5.3K book. The SA landscape is littered with examples like this, absolutely littered. Just like Bronze Age. Remember when Hulk #181 9.8 was a $25K book? Look what happened to GL #76 prices as well. "Safe investments" indeed.

 

I realize some of the prices on those books were from a fistful of bidders, do you have any examples of books in the 2.0 to 6.0 grade range that took price declines like those books in above near mint grade.

 

The phrase "investment" to me is better suited for books where there is a large number of potential buyers today and in the future.

[Ghost Town]

Why did he lose so much on the Avengers book?

He paid too much? Comics aren't a great investment? :shrug:

 

Most people seem to have a very naïve view of what makes a good investment. What you're buying is only half of the equation. How much you're paying is the other, more important half. An AF #15 9.0 might be a great investment at $50K. How about at $500K? How about at $5 million? There is nothing so inherently good about AF #15s that you can ignore your entry price.

 

Like I said, that Avengers #4 9.6 example is not isolated. Many high grade SA books, both keys and commons, were driven up to ludicrous levels during the Schmell/Brulato years (dragging up the value of the lower grades as well) and are now worth nickels and dimes on the dollar. Remember when FF #5 9.6 sold for $27,999 in November 2009? Three years later, in November 2012, it had become a $5.3K book. The SA landscape is littered with examples like this, absolutely littered. Just like Bronze Age. Remember when Hulk #181 9.8 was a $25K book? Look what happened to GL #76 prices as well. "Safe investments" indeed.

There are definitely high profile examples of people taking baths on various books. That Dr. Jack guy and his Spidey purchases from a number of years ago comes to mind.

 

It seems like what those stories have in common are the buyers selling the books within a few years of buying them.

 

But for every story like the Avengers #4 or 9.8 Hulk #181 examples above, there are multitudes of collectors who bought great books and have held onto them for many years. I can think of a number of Silver Age collectors who have done very well with the money they've put into books. I don't know the Golden Age world, but I bet a lot of guys have done well there too.

 

That's not to say I think it's wise to write a $20,000 check for a Hulk #181. But to dismiss comics as poor investments is ignoring a lot of evidence to the contrary.

[thehumantorch]

Why did he lose so much on the Avengers book?

He paid too much? Comics aren't a great investment? :shrug:

 

Most people seem to have a very naïve view of what makes a good investment. What you're buying is only half of the equation. How much you're paying is the other, more important half. An AF #15 9.0 might be a great investment at $50K. How about at $500K? How about at $5 million? There is nothing so inherently good about AF #15s that you can ignore your entry price.

 

Like I said, that Avengers #4 9.6 example is not isolated. Many high grade SA books, both keys and commons, were driven up to ludicrous levels during the Schmell/Brulato years (dragging up the value of the lower grades as well) and are now worth nickels and dimes on the dollar. Remember when FF #5 9.6 sold for $27,999 in November 2009? Three years later, in November 2012, it had become a $5.3K book. The SA landscape is littered with examples like this, absolutely littered. Just like Bronze Age. Remember when Hulk #181 9.8 was a $25K book? Look what happened to GL #76 prices as well. "Safe investments" indeed.

There are definitely high profile examples of people taking baths on various books. That Dr. Jack guy and his Spidey purchases from a number of years ago comes to mind.

 

It seems like what those stories have in common are the buyers selling the books within a few years of buying them.

 

But for every story like the Avengers #4 or 9.8 Hulk #181 examples above, there are multitudes of collectors who bought great books and have held onto them for many years. I can think of a number of Silver Age collectors who have done very well with the money they've put into books. I don't know the Golden Age world, but I bet a lot of guys have done well there too.

 

That's not to say I think it's wise to write a $20,000 check for a Hulk #181. But to dismiss comics as poor investments is ignoring a lot of evidence to the contrary.

 

Agreed. Paying a very high price for a high grade copy is very dangerous as pressing is creating more high grade copies, and high auction sales tempt people to sell high grade copies they've been sitting on. Much like the Mark McGwire record setting home run ball, it's value drops when his record is tied or eclipsed.

 

I can say that affordable copies of keys like AF15, Hulk 181, ASM 121 sell all day long at comic shows and the prices they sell for have increased steadily for a long time. If I was gonna buy comics strictly for investment purposes those are the books I'd buy.

[namisgr]

But to dismiss comics as poor investments is ignoring a lot of evidence to the contrary.

 

An excellent point, but still one that doesn't establish comics as a 'safe investment'. Also, as they say for traditional investment vehicles, past performance does not necessarily predict future gains.

[ChrisInBaltimore]

But to dismiss comics as poor investments is ignoring a lot of evidence to the contrary.

 

An excellent point, but still one that doesn't establish comics as a 'safe investment'.

 

Well, what is a safe investment? There are not a lot.

 

Traditionally, key comics have gone up 10%, if not more, each year. There are some crazy examples out there, but comics have done pretty well.

 

Personally, I don't invest in comics. I buy books I like graded.

[MR SigS]

Will people who are being born in the 1990s and 2000s really care about these books when they get much older.

 

Nobody's being born in those years anymore.

 

And who can say what people will like in 20 more years? The hobby could be dead or it could be the hottest thing going. If the future starts looking bleak for comics, it will make no difference to the joy they give me right now.

[thunsicker]

But to dismiss comics as poor investments is ignoring a lot of evidence to the contrary.

 

An excellent point, but still one that doesn't establish comics as a 'safe investment'. Also, as they say for traditional investment vehicles, past performance does not necessarily predict future gains.

 

Exactly. The question wasn't are comics a good investment. It was are comics a safe investment. Two wildly different questions.

[Hamlet]

I don't think the frenzy for high grade books really pulled up the lower grade books that much, at least outside of keys.

 

While people were setting record prices for 9.6-9.8 non-key SA books, I was buying VG-F copies on E-bay and at cons for almost nothing.

 

The books in my lower grade range are actually seeing a little firmer pricing than they were a few years ago, while the non-key top census books have gotten wacked.

 

We've seen a narrowing of the price spread between high grade and low grade books for the first time I've seen.

 

It will be interesting to see if that continues or reverses.

 

Like I said, that Avengers #4 9.6 example is not isolated. Many high grade SA books, both keys and commons, were driven up to ludicrous levels during the Schmell/Brulato years (dragging up the value of the lower grades as well) and are now worth nickels and dimes on the dollar. Remember when FF #5 9.6 sold for $27,999 in November 2009? Three years later, in November 2012, it had become a $5.3K book. The SA landscape is littered with examples like this, absolutely littered. Just like Bronze Age. Remember when Hulk #181 9.8 was a $25K book? Look what happened to GL #76 prices as well. "Safe investments" indeed.

[lizards2]

But to dismiss comics as poor investments is ignoring a lot of evidence to the contrary.

 

An excellent point, but still one that doesn't establish comics as a 'safe investment'. Also, as they say for traditional investment vehicles, past performance does not necessarily predict future gains.

 

Exactly. The question wasn't are comics a good investment. It was are comics a safe investment. Two wildly different questions.

They can be both good and safe if you practice safe collecting, and don't jump on the train to buy the next hot book because of movie hype or other forces. TOS 50 comes to mind - I'm assuming most are now taking a bath from buying high on that issue..., but I don't really know that for sure.

 

GL 76 still seems way overpriced to me. I can wait for prices to halve on that issue - I don't have to have one at the current nose-bleed prices.

[Ghost Town]

But to dismiss comics as poor investments is ignoring a lot of evidence to the contrary.

 

An excellent point, but still one that doesn't establish comics as a 'safe investment'. Also, as they say for traditional investment vehicles, past performance does not necessarily predict future gains.

True. But I was responding to Gene's post specifically. He seemed to be talking more about the good/bad continuum. Not the safe/unsafe continuum.

 

Most people seem to have a very naïve view of what makes a good investment. What you're buying is only half of the equation. How much you're paying is the other, more important half. An AF #15 9.0 might be a great investment at $50K. How about at $500K? How about at $5 million? There is nothing so inherently good about AF #15s that you can ignore your entry price.

[kimik]

I don't think the frenzy for high grade books really pulled up the lower grade books that much, at least outside of keys.

 

While people were setting record prices for 9.6-9.8 non-key SA books, I was buying VG-F copies on E-bay and at cons for almost nothing.

 

The books in my lower grade range are actually seeing a little firmer pricing than they were a few years ago, while the non-key top census books have gotten wacked.

 

We've seen a narrowing of the price spread between high grade and low grade books for the first time I've seen.

 

It will be interesting to see if that continues or reverses.

 

I see this trend continuing as collectors focus on affordable key or high demand SA and BA books. There is an entry fee that the vast majority of collectors are willing/able to pay to joint the club and the high grade copies have exceeded that.

 

There is no surprise re: high grade common prices getting hammered - too much supply exists for the demand. Most of the people I sell non-keys to at cons are just looking for decent FN to VF copies to fill runs and saving the bigger $$ for the keys.

 

Right now Copper books through early 90s keys are starting to take their big leap in price and are a good place to make money. You can still find a lot of them for the $10-$20 range that are an easy sell at shows for $50-$100.

[kimik]

Why did he lose so much on the Avengers book?

He paid too much? Comics aren't a great investment? :shrug:

 

Most people seem to have a very naïve view of what makes a good investment. What you're buying is only half of the equation. How much you're paying is the other, more important half. An AF #15 9.0 might be a great investment at $50K. How about at $500K? How about at $5 million? There is nothing so inherently good about AF #15s that you can ignore your entry price.

 

Like I said, that Avengers #4 9.6 example is not isolated. Many high grade SA books, both keys and commons, were driven up to ludicrous levels during the Schmell/Brulato years (dragging up the value of the lower grades as well) and are now worth nickels and dimes on the dollar. Remember when FF #5 9.6 sold for $27,999 in November 2009? Three years later, in November 2012, it had become a $5.3K book. The SA landscape is littered with examples like this, absolutely littered. Just like Bronze Age. Remember when Hulk #181 9.8 was a $25K book? Look what happened to GL #76 prices as well. "Safe investments" indeed.

There are definitely high profile examples of people taking baths on various books. That Dr. Jack guy and his Spidey purchases from a number of years ago comes to mind.

 

It seems like what those stories have in common are the buyers selling the books within a few years of buying them.

 

But for every story like the Avengers #4 or 9.8 Hulk #181 examples above, there are multitudes of collectors who bought great books and have held onto them for many years. I can think of a number of Silver Age collectors who have done very well with the money they've put into books. I don't know the Golden Age world, but I bet a lot of guys have done well there too.

 

That's not to say I think it's wise to write a $20,000 check for a Hulk #181. But to dismiss comics as poor investments is ignoring a lot of evidence to the contrary.

 

Agreed. Paying a very high price for a high grade copy is very dangerous as pressing is creating more high grade copies, and high auction sales tempt people to sell high grade copies they've been sitting on. Much like the Mark McGwire record setting home run ball, it's value drops when his record is tied or eclipsed.

 

I can say that affordable copies of keys like AF15, Hulk 181, ASM 121 sell all day long at comic shows and the prices they sell for have increased steadily for a long time. If I was gonna buy comics strictly for investment purposes those are the books I'd buy.

 

+1

 

Just stay out of the Copper through early 90s books, Dave, so Brian and I can continue to cash in on them at the shows.

[kimik]

Why did he lose so much on the Avengers book?

He paid too much? Comics aren't a great investment? :shrug:

 

Most people seem to have a very naïve view of what makes a good investment. What you're buying is only half of the equation. How much you're paying is the other, more important half. An AF #15 9.0 might be a great investment at $50K. How about at $500K? How about at $5 million? There is nothing so inherently good about AF #15s that you can ignore your entry price.

 

Like I said, that Avengers #4 9.6 example is not isolated. Many high grade SA books, both keys and commons, were driven up to ludicrous levels during the Schmell/Brulato years (dragging up the value of the lower grades as well) and are now worth nickels and dimes on the dollar. Remember when FF #5 9.6 sold for $27,999 in November 2009? Three years later, in November 2012, it had become a $5.3K book. The SA landscape is littered with examples like this, absolutely littered. Just like Bronze Age. Remember when Hulk #181 9.8 was a $25K book? Look what happened to GL #76 prices as well. "Safe investments" indeed.

 

Definitely, but that applies to any type of investment. How are those people buying Apple near the peak feeling now?

[Kevin76]

It really depends on what you buy and how much you pay for it. I'd never pay 5K+ for a comic post 1963. Has a 9.6 Hulk 181 6K yet? Nope. Will it ever? maybe buy I'm not going to test it by buying one. Why? Too many high grade copies avaliable! How many 9.6's of AF 15 do you see for sale? Ok then, No only is it a tough book in high grade to find, there is so much demand for it it's insane and supply cannot keep up with it. Comic market does take dips, just like any investment does. In 2000 I said to my brother when Hulk 1 9.2 was being sold 45K. Sure it's expensive and it's 300X guide but I knew that was nothing to what was going to happen in the future, fast forward 13 years and I was right and still believe that pre 1963 comics' prices are still going to skyrocket. I don't see much of a future for BA, CA and MA books, sure they will spike and get hot but people today are much smarter about storage and condition these day than they were 50 years ago. Which is why they are so expensive now.

[roulette44]

So my answer is that comics are generally not safe investments as investments inherently incur some level of risk.

 

WTF? where to even begin with this......

[Kevin76]

So my answer is that comics are generally not safe investments as investments inherently incur some level of risk.

 

WTF? where to even begin with this......

 

 

You could print it out and use it as toilet paper

[comicwiz]

OP is the same knucklehead that auto posted/spammed 4800+ posts over here.

 

Wow why would you do that?...

 

From the 1930's (circa). Refers to a person of questionable intelligence. The size of the brain being given relative size of a human knuckle. Similar to pinhead.

That guy just sat on a bench with wet paint. What a knucklehead.

 

I was testing a macro program I created and figured the test forum, where test are allowed would be a funny place for it. As to how any of that is the slightest bit relevant to my original post, I know not.

 

It appears some people wish they were back in high-school and like to bring drama to threads whenever possible, clearly the knucklehead here.

 

Just curious, and I know off topic, but what use would that serve?

 

Flooding scripts or bloatware is the work of a hacker, plain and simple. The test area of this site is strictly meant for the manual entry of posts made by a real person, and not automated software.

 

Regardless of intent, as soon as any automated -script posts in a test or experimental run, the mods should be alerted and the member at least warned never to do it again.

[Bronty]

Why did he lose so much on the Avengers book?

He paid too much? Comics aren't a great investment? :shrug:

 

Most people seem to have a very naïve view of what makes a good investment. What you're buying is only half of the equation. How much you're paying is the other, more important half. An AF #15 9.0 might be a great investment at $50K. How about at $500K? How about at $5 million? There is nothing so inherently good about AF #15s that you can ignore your entry price.

 

Like I said, that Avengers #4 9.6 example is not isolated. Many high grade SA books, both keys and commons, were driven up to ludicrous levels during the Schmell/Brulato years (dragging up the value of the lower grades as well) and are now worth nickels and dimes on the dollar. Remember when FF #5 9.6 sold for $27,999 in November 2009? Three years later, in November 2012, it had become a $5.3K book. The SA landscape is littered with examples like this, absolutely littered. Just like Bronze Age. Remember when Hulk #181 9.8 was a $25K book? Look what happened to GL #76 prices as well. "Safe investments" indeed.

 

I get your general point but there is something seriously amiss with your FF 5 example. I don't believe for one second that a 9.6 sold for 5k.

 

Perhaps #25, or some other later issue, is what you are thinking of? I haven't been watching close enough to know but that would be my guess? ....because let me tell you I'd write 5k checks for 9.6 ff5s all day long and I don't even like buying high grade SA.

[Beige]

Does the OP know that 'Chew' is not a GA/SA/BA book?

I ask purely as 90% of his posts were:

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In the "testing" thread - thought it was best to check.