Best Pricing Methodology for Silver Comics

[BarryAllen]

I am sure this thread has already come and gone, if nothing else it has probably at least been an episode of the Simpsons...

 

 

 

Just like all of you, I have been given the opportunity to buy or sell a Silver Age comic and many times I have the same discussion with the buyer/seller: how to agree on price...? Assuming we agree on grade (sometimes a BIG assumption), there have been arguments both for and against the regularly available tools. This can be both frustrating and rewarding experience depending on the individual whom you are working with. More often than not the tools seem to be used (or ignored) as a convenient way to increase the price. Similarly PQ, "centering" and whether or not there are slab scratches are frequently used to change the value as well.

 

I am looking for perspective on how to appropriately price a Silver Age comic using the tools available today (GPA, OSPG, Comicspriceguide.com, other).

 

Any and all input is welcome, from both a buying and selling position. Any persuasive approaches, negotiation or argument tactics are welcome!

 

For the sake of keeping the discussion simple, let's assume the transaction is on a Silver Age CGC graded book. Additionally, where possible, please use a practical example of a slab and potentially the data you would use (i.e. GPA pricing, OSPG, etc).

 

I understand that there really is no right answer to this question, but I am genuinely interested in the discussion it could bring.

 

Anyone got any "tricks of the trade?"

 

 

[BarryAllen]

To use a comic that is a key, but not necessarily "hot" right now...

 

What would you price this comic at and why?

-or-

What would you pay for this comic and why?

 

 

 

Disclaimer - I am not going to buy or sell this comic on this site or anywhere else. This is purely an academic exercise, I am not interested in trying to "drive my own agenda."

[jgold22]

I would price it at $2100 if you want to sell it quickly. I might pay anywhere between 1800 and that depending on a the transaction details (shipping, insurance, guarantees, etc.)

 

Price it higher say $2400 - $2500 if you don't mind waiting a week or two longer for the right buyer.

 

It IS a hot book right now and a super key.

 

Additionally, it's a decent looking 2.0. Strong rep for the grade.

 

I think the reason you don't see too many SC4 sales (perhaps even a decline in the number of sales) unlike with AF15s is because there are far less SC4s out there and collectors are holding them.

 

You do see an increase in price over the past year with the few that have sold.

 

Perhaps the book has a lot more interest from the growing SA collecting community.

 

Last reported price on GPA for the sole 2.0 sale in 2012 was $1600.

 

I would treat the purchase of this book far differently than say the purchase of an ASM129 in 9.4 where there are a lot more for sale and I can be far more selective with PQ, centering and minor flaws.

 

With SC4s there is a small window of opportunity to act if you want to own one.

 

 

Good question rfoiii. Is that your copy?

[Iceman399]

Good question rfoiii. Is that your copy?

 

And is it for sale

[Columbia Comics]

I predict low discussion in this thread....

[BarryAllen]

I predict low discussion in this thread....

 

That would be unfortunate. There is a lot to be discussed and a fair amount of opportunity for experienced collectors to share their wisdom.

 

We debate this kind of thing all the time in small pockets all over the forum.

 

Fair pricing (buying or selling) isn't a competitive advantage, it is a good business practice. By educating others on "best practices" to convert value (potential or current) into price, people stand to create the best "win/win" scenarios. High value opportunities will be easier to recognize and people will make more informed decisions increasing their capitol (from not over-spending) for future purchases.

[trmoore54]

I use whatever data I can get my hands on...GPA, and all the major websites/dealers and of course ebay...whether buying or selling...so I'll offer my point of view for both...

 

Buying

If it's a book I really want I will pay market or slightly above. Having said that, I will try and negotiate a price less than market in the 5-10% range...

I will not pay market unless the book is fairly perfect...perfect registration or near-perfect being the primary aspect of the grade, then PQ, then markings (print date stamps don't bother me too much, and sometimes are actually appealing...grease pencil marks a little more annoying)...

When I'm buying a book for my collection I intend (at present) to hold on to it for a long time, so I'd rather wait and buy a perfect copy or near-perfect copy.

I could care less about a scratch or two on the slab...if the slab was truly beat to hell and the book was expensive (say $300 or more) I'd probably negotiate the re-slabbing discount...

I don't buy too many HG raw copies, so I won't expound on that too much...but when I do on rare occasion I try and pay no more than 75% of the CGC market value...

 

Selling

I don't sell too many books but for books I might have to sell (usually when having to raise funds fairly quickly to purchase another book) I have a couple of simple positions...

If I really don't want to sell the book I'll not settle for less than market.

If it's not a perfect book so in my mind it's a book that I somewhat need to replace somewhere down the line I'll take 10% less than market...

For raw books I try to sell, in general, at around 60-75% of OSPG/market...if it's a hot book or a harder to find book such as Pre-Heros I try to get 90-100% of market.

 

[BarryAllen]

I use whatever data I can get my hands on...GPA, and all the major websites/dealers and of course ebay...whether buying or selling...so I'll offer my point of view for both...

 

Buying

If it's a book I really want I will pay market or slightly above. Having said that, I will try and negotiate a price less than market in the 5-10% range...

I will not pay market unless the book is fairly perfect...perfect registration or near-perfect being the primary aspect of the grade, then PQ, then markings (print date stamps don't bother me too much, and sometimes are actually appealing...grease pencil marks a little more annoying)...

When I'm buying a book for my collection I intend (at present) to hold on to it for a long time, so I'd rather wait and buy a perfect copy or near-perfect copy.

I could care less about a scratch or two on the slab...if the slab was truly beat to hell and the book was expensive (say $300 or more) I'd probably negotiate the re-slabbing discount...

I don't buy too many HG raw copies, so I won't expound on that too much...but when I do on rare occasion I try and pay no more than 75% of the CGC market value...

 

Selling

I don't sell too many books but for books I might have to sell (usually when having to raise funds fairly quickly to purchase another book) I have a couple of simple positions...

If I really don't want to sell the book I'll not settle for less than market.

If it's not a perfect book so in my mind it's a book that I somewhat need to replace somewhere down the line I'll take 10% less than market...

For raw books I try to sell, in general, at around 60-75% of OSPG/market...if it's a hot book or a harder to find book such as Pre-Heros I try to get 90-100% of market.

 

 

Good perspective, thank you.

 

 

[zosocane]

I generally buy to hold, and I don't sell much. Here is my "buyer's methodology" for Silver.

 

Buying off the Internet, I use GPA. A lot. Only because there are so many reported sales that the "market" really shows its opinion on a particular book. I really focus on the sales trending of the last 10 years (typically there is a graph) to get a sense of whether the market has supported the book over time or whether it's caught in a speculation buying-fest, etc. In fact I don't use OPG anymore for SA. For additional reality checking, sometimes I will see what other dealer sites that are fairly current (Worldwide; Metropolis; Highgrade; Reece) list the book at, which is typically -- not always -- 10% to 20% over a reported GPA sale as auctions tend to fetch a little less than a BIN price.

 

Buying at shows, I try to be uber-careful about getting caught up in the instant gratification vibe. Typically I will pull up GPA on my mobile device for a market check at the show. I don't mind paying about 10% above recently reported sales, but there should be a good reason -- e.g., tough book; hot book; white pages; etc. There are a few dealers at shows (not naming) that consistently price well above market (25% and higher) that I don't even bother countering. As much as I want to support all dealers at a show, I just stay away from those tables.

[BarryAllen]

I would price it at $2100 if you want to sell it quickly. I might pay anywhere between 1800 and that depending on a the transaction details (shipping, insurance, guarantees, etc.)

 

Price it higher say $2400 - $2500 if you don't mind waiting a week or two longer for the right buyer.

 

It IS a hot book right now and a super key.

 

Additionally, it's a decent looking 2.0. Strong rep for the grade.

 

I think the reason you don't see too many SC4 sales (perhaps even a decline in the number of sales) unlike with AF15s is because there are far less SC4s out there and collectors are holding them.

 

You do see an increase in price over the past year with the few that have sold.

 

Perhaps the book has a lot more interest from the growing SA collecting community.

 

Last reported price on GPA for the sole 2.0 sale in 2012 was $1600.

 

I would treat the purchase of this book far differently than say the purchase of an ASM129 in 9.4 where there are a lot more for sale and I can be far more selective with PQ, centering and minor flaws.

 

With SC4s there is a small window of opportunity to act if you want to own one.

 

Thanks for the input, good perspective. I agree it is a valuable book that you don't see everyday.

 

Where did you get your pricing recos ($2,100 to move quickly, $2,400-2,500 if I want to wait a week or two)? Are these based on your gut or from market sales?

 

I agree with your pricing, but I am interested in how you personally derived it. Particularly with GPA significantly lower than the stated window(s).

[BarryAllen]

For Silver, I use GPA. A lot. I really focus on the sales trending of the last 10 years (typically there is a graph) to get a sense of whether a book stands the test of time or is a flash in the pan, etc. In fact I don't use OPG anymore for SA. I will also see what other dealer sites that are fairly current (Worldwide; Metropolis; Highgrade; Reece) list the book at, which is typically -- not always -- 10% to 20% over a reported GPA sale as auctions tend to fetch a little less than a BIN price.

 

Thank you for sharing, I like the long-term trending view! It is funny how quickly a person may want to jump into a fast rising book and forget to take into account where it has been the last 10 years (i.e. a better indicator of where it will be in 10 years after the spike wears off - generally speaking).

 

Do you use the same approach when buying or selling?

[zosocane]

Thank you for sharing, I like the long-term trending view! It is funny how quickly a person may want to jump into a fast rising book and forget to take into account where it has been the last 10 years (i.e. a better indicator of where it will be in 10 years after the spike wears off - generally speaking).

 

Do you use the same approach when buying or selling?

 

I don't sell often, so my methodology is really for buying only. I like to hold books a long time; I want to have the feeling that I'm not going to lose money 10 or 15 years from now, and that there might be some appreciation.

[roulette44]

Good discussion and while books are fun to enjoy too (not just buy and sell), they are very solid investments and (in my mind anyways) the excuse of "honey, these aren't just collectibles, they're diversified investments" allows me a bigger bankroll

 

We've discussed this before, but I would tend to factor in the following

1 - how much do I like the book (completely market irrelevant.....but If i likey, i keepy!)

2 - how hot is the book (what's the demand like)

3 - what do I expect to change in 2) in the next 12-24 months

4 - how strong is supply (CGC census and gross up based on value of book and age)

5 - what is GPA (and if GPA has plenty of recent sales, it's credible, otherwise it's not - i've bought books for way above GPA and sold for way above GPA and below GPA)

6 - what are the comparables for sale priced at (i may decide to come in under if I'm in the book at the right price, or I want to free up capital for something else)

7 - any other factors to affect price (presentation vs. technical grade, page quality, other factors)

 

 

So, for your SC4 (pretty book, brother!), i'd say

 

1 - Irrelevant for this exercise

2 - Pretty hot. good recent sales performance, residual affect of MOS movie, and hype of JLA movie

3 - Expect continued momentum with high probability (not a sure thing, though). Most likely continued hype, but could backfire if Flash not a focal point of JLA movie (or movie does poorly, etc)

4 - While not super rare on the census compared to like-period books, is far more scarce than the other keys......even in 2.0. I don't believe there are that many out there unaccounted for, either (and believe the census numbers are inflated due to people who resub without the label (tsk)

5 - last sale a year ago for $1,566, and $1,673 in 2011. Looking at other grades, where you have recent sales you have big jumps in price ($8,300 for 5.0, plus another sale we know about for a similar price, $3,900 for a 3.0)

6 - $2,500 for a 1.5 and $4,500 for a 3.0 on ebay, not too many copies floating around

7 - decent presenting copy, atleast average for grade.

 

Put it all together and you have:

 

Selling price - $2,895 or best offer

Buying price - $2,000

 

 

[BarryAllen]

Good discussion and while books are fun to enjoy too (not just buy and sell), they are very solid investments and (in my mind anyways) the excuse of "honey, these aren't just collectibles, they're diversified investments" allows me a bigger bankroll

 

We've discussed this before, but I would tend to factor in the following

1 - how much do I like the book (completely market irrelevant.....but If i likey, i keepy!)

2 - how hot is the book (what's the demand like)

3 - what do I expect to change in 2) in the next 12-24 months

4 - how strong is supply (CGC census and gross up based on value of book and age)

5 - what is GPA (and if GPA has plenty of recent sales, it's credible, otherwise it's not - i've bought books for way above GPA and sold for way above GPA and below GPA)

6 - what are the comparables for sale priced at (i may decide to come in under if I'm in the book at the right price, or I want to free up capital for something else)

7 - any other factors to affect price (presentation vs. technical grade, page quality, other factors)

 

 

So, for your SC4 (pretty book, brother!), i'd say

 

1 - Irrelevant for this exercise

2 - Pretty hot. good recent sales performance, residual affect of MOS movie, and hype of JLA movie

3 - Expect continued momentum with high probability (not a sure thing, though). Most likely continued hype, but could backfire if Flash not a focal point of JLA movie (or movie does poorly, etc)

4 - While not super rare on the census compared to like-period books, is far more scarce than the other keys......even in 2.0. I don't believe there are that many out there unaccounted for, either (and believe the census numbers are inflated due to people who resub without the label (tsk)

5 - last sale a year ago for $1,566, and $1,673 in 2011. Looking at other grades, where you have recent sales you have big jumps in price ($8,300 for 5.0, plus another sale we know about for a similar price, $3,900 for a 3.0)

6 - $2,500 for a 1.5 and $4,500 for a 3.0 on ebay, not too many copies floating around

7 - decent presenting copy, atleast average for grade.

 

Put it all together and you have:

 

Selling price - $2,895 or best offer

Buying price - $2,000

 

 

Great input as always, thank you!

 

In your experience, what usually makes GPA less relevant or completely irrelevant?

[thunsicker]

Great input as always, thank you!

 

In your experience, what usually makes GPA less relevant or completely irrelevant?

 

Of course the thing that makes GPA less relevant or irrelevant is if a title is not sold that often or the last sale of a title is an obvious outlier. Also if the last sale was a pedigree issue of the comic.

[BarryAllen]

Great input as always, thank you!

 

In your experience, what usually makes GPA less relevant or completely irrelevant?

 

Of course the thing that makes GPA less relevant or irrelevant is if a title is not sold that often or the last sale of a title is an obvious outlier. Also if the last sale was a pedigree issue of the comic.

 

That has been my experience as well, just wanted to see if there was anything I had not heard yet. Essentially, for most books, GPA is a solid tool.

 

Thanks for the input!

[DamageInc-migration]

Great input as always, thank you!

 

In your experience, what usually makes GPA less relevant or completely irrelevant?

 

Of course the thing that makes GPA less relevant or irrelevant is if a title is not sold that often or the last sale of a title is an obvious outlier. Also if the last sale was a pedigree issue of the comic.

 

Also the fact that Comiclink won't report any (all) of their sales to GPA.

[G.A.tor]

Great input as always, thank you!

 

In your experience, what usually makes GPA less relevant or completely irrelevant?

 

Of course the thing that makes GPA less relevant or irrelevant is if a title is not sold that often or the last sale of a title is an obvious outlier. Also if the last sale was a pedigree issue of the comic.

 

Also the fact that Comiclink won't report any (all) of their sales to GPA.

comiclink is probably the largest non reporting seller but gpa , in my estimation, probably captures less than 1/3 of sales on any random book, and the majority of sales gpa does capture are auction sales not retail sales (typically lower)

 

So yes it is a good tool, best used to view pricing trends (it doesnt predict prices just reports hindsight) but not all that "accurate" for pricing hot or trending books.

[roulette44]

Agree with this post (and "trending" goes in both directions too).

 

If you exclude books where GPA has only one sale in the last 6 months to a year, your remaining subset is far more accurate.......but plenty of books trade rarer than this too.

 

 

[BarryAllen]

Great input as always, thank you!

 

In your experience, what usually makes GPA less relevant or completely irrelevant?

 

Of course the thing that makes GPA less relevant or irrelevant is if a title is not sold that often or the last sale of a title is an obvious outlier. Also if the last sale was a pedigree issue of the comic.

 

Also the fact that Comiclink won't report any (all) of their sales to GPA.

comiclink is probably the largest non reporting seller but gpa , in my estimation, probably captures less than 1/3 of sales on any random book, and the majority of sales gpa does capture are auction sales not retail sales (typically lower)

 

So yes it is a good tool, best used to view pricing trends (it doesnt predict prices just reports hindsight) but not all that "accurate" for pricing hot or trending books.

 

Thank you, makes sense. How do you normally approach pricing or buying a book that is trending?

 

Ideally you want to attract buyers, make solid sales (with reasonable profit) or pay appropriately for a trending book (without significantly overshooting FMV).