When did pressing a comic before every sub become the norm?

[seanfingh]

Jimbo, you're more concerned, overall, than you need to be regarding the preservation of your books.

Id argue hes more concerned, overall, than he needs to be of what others do in regarding the preservation of their own books.

I won't say a word about how you conserve your Nintendo Powers.

 

Nothing says "I just farted in your face" quite as well as a condescending "what I collect is great, what you collect sucks." Well played, sir.

[DiceX]

 

 

[dupont2005]

I don't know why I waited so long to look in here

[originalisbest]

Jimbo, you're more concerned, overall, than you need to be regarding the preservation of your books.

Id argue hes more concerned, overall, than he needs to be of what others do in regarding the preservation of their own books.

I won't say a word about how you conserve your Nintendo Powers.

 

Nothing says "I just farted in your face" quite as well as a condescending "what I collect is great, what you collect sucks." Well played, sir.

 

substitute "person_who_is_obnoxiously_self-impressed" for "sir". There you have it!

[gaz973]

Now jimbo aside (and heck, I really don't have time for this, but I guess it is my lunch hour) I start from the point that a proper pressing job doesn't damage a book. Rather, if anything it is a process which benefits a book. Maybe ff can link yet again to the discussion over whether paper fibers became more, not less supple, etc. after a careful pressing treatment. Or you can take Roy's point of view that it's benign, for properly levels of humidity and pressure can nicely flatten out any given book. All the bottom ones from the milehigh stacks were so pressed. But that is the basis I'm operating from -- it doesn't harm a book.

 

The notion that a staple could pop, a chip come off? That can happen with anything, Francis, pressing included. I have had a chipped corner that must have been hanging on by a thread come off within the CGC well on a mid-grade book -- this is called "stuff happens."

 

As to money and why it ultimately boils down to that. Some people have the notion that to find a virginal, scarce book is a great thing, such that they wouldn't dare even breathe on it. Bully for them, if it's their book. If it's mine, and has a ripple and a NCB bend that can be improved upon, I'm probably going to have it professionally pressed.

 

This seems to annoy some purists to no end. Perhaps because they're worried the book might get damaged, but that seems a white knight dodge - there's any number of ways a book might be accidentally damaged, even when held close to their loving breast. I think it closer to the truth that one of two things has occured -- perhaps they have what used to be a slightly superior copy, now they find the pressed book has been elevated to the level of theirs. Theirs is now a little less scarce, the supply has increased; if demand has remained static -- their copy might now be worth less money/less coolness/less uniqueness in the eyes of their geeksquad buddies.

 

Or perhaps they had their eyes on this pre-pressed copy, while it was merely a VG+. Now it's a nicer-looking F+, in the eyes of CGC and many, and would cost them more to obtain. Well, rats. Guess you shoulda got there first, then you could have done as you liked with the book. But really, what's the problem here? If pressing damages a book and is somehow so easy for you to detect, then you can always differentiate between pressed and not pressed, and continue to look for a virginal unpressed one -- oh wait, you say you can't tell the difference, and are then dependent upon a personal knowledge of the book's entire history since day 1 of its existence? Well gosh - sorry about that. Be happy, eternally grateful then, for tools like the Heritage archives, which do allow you to see a particular book's changing appearance, if it happens to be one they've sold in the past. If it's not in the database and you've not known the owner of the book since January of '42, you're left to your own devices.

 

What has happened, when the newly and properly pressed book enters the marketplace, is there has been a slight increase in the population of nicer-looking books, and it has either made your one existing highgrade copy less unique (and thus perhaps, with demand a constant, less valuable should you wish to sell (or just "less special", if money really doesn't matter, because your buddy now owns a copy with the same grade on the label as yours, and you can't tell whether pressed or not unless they confide that in you)) or, it has taken one lower grade one and bumped it up to a higher grade, thus making it more expensive to compete with other collectors to add that copy to your collection. And now you have to go searching again for one that'll better fit your budget.

 

I find pressing to be a boon, not a detriment at all. With enough searching for a given book, you might find a pressable candidate that can be had for a relative bargain, that can be improved in appearance and thus value, and added to your collection. While it kinda sucks for the demand and "specialness" of the one highgrade copy you happen to have, if all of a sudden two more pop up in a similar grade after careful pressing, perhaps it's really, really cool to me, another collector, because I get to finally add one of those two highgrade gems to my collection; there's a little more comic wealth to go around for everyone. It's probably a commie plot, I admit. Are you a red dupe?

 

All high and mighty protestations aside, the above is why it boils down to money, IMO. With rare exceptions, everyone has just so much of it at any given time, and probably tries to stretch it as far as they can in pursuit of the best-looking books they can uncover. The thought that all "virginal" highgrade comics are going to be rendered common by way of a flood of pressed books is laughable. You can press anything you like, but a VG won't magically become a 9.4. Probably the rarified few highgrade books will, at most, have just a couple added to their ranks - hardly a flood.

 

One last question, if I find an original-owner book in the middle of a stack with a folded-under cover corner, am I allowed to bend it back to the proper position and put it in a mylar? Or am I crook for doing so? Sure wouldn't want to offend anyone. You can resume the butthurt if you're so inclined.

 

Instead of listening to what some of us are saying...Gene, Garry and myself amongst others...why do you feel the need to tell us what we really think?

 

You can't believe our motivations because they aren't yours?

 

I'm not trying to tell you what you really think, I'm trying to say what I think you may be thinking/motivated by, in an attempt to show you the basis of my thinking.

 

I think.

Not sure why you're trying to say what you think we may be thinking/motivated by, I already know and understand my motivations and shared some of them earlier. You may not believe me or others but you don't change anything by projecting the basis of your thinking onto us.

 

To me and others, it really isn't "all about the money" whether you can understand and believe it or not. I feel like a broken record by repeating it again but feel compelled to when someone asserts that it must be everyone's motivation. I'm not saying that it is never a factor but it is far from the main factor in my aversion to pressing. No amount of sarcastic responses will change this.

 

Again, it's too bad that you don't see my explaining my thought process as anything but that; I wouldn't dare to imagine I could surmise what most anti-pressers REALLY think. Sheesh. On the whole topic of "projection" - pot, kettle, black in a majority of instances.

Strange, in your quoted post you said " I'm trying to say what I think you may be thinking/motivated by" and now you say "I wouldn't dare to imagine I could surmise what most anti-pressers REALLY think."

 

Perhaps now you can see my confusion about just exactly what you are trying to say?

[Comicopolis]

Is this the Lance Armstrong thread?

[DrWatson]

Is this the Lance Armstrong thread?

Are you implying that it's low on balls?

[Comicopolis]

Is this the Lance Armstrong thread?

Are you implying that it's low on balls?

 

[DamageInc-migration]

Jimbo, you're more concerned, overall, than you need to be regarding the preservation of your books.

Id argue hes more concerned, overall, than he needs to be of what others do in regarding the preservation of their own books.

I won't say a word about how you conserve your Nintendo Powers.

 

Nothing says "I just farted in your face" quite as well as a condescending "what I collect is great, what you collect sucks." Well played, sir.

 

substitute "dousche" for "sir". There you have it!

 

Oh, so close. Currently the correct insult is "douchenozzle".

 

Roy, Mr Myst, do we have a winner?

[ComicConnoisseur]

You can't continue to insist that you are against pressing for fear of damage to a book when we all endanger books with any sort of action except leaving them to sit in climate controlled, dark closet / mylar / acid free board.

 

Some of you might have seen that annual thread where Golden Age collectors in the GA forum sitting around a table at rarehighgrade's house during SD con and looking at some of the rarest and most precious books in existence. Chuch copies of GA GGA books, Church copies of pre Batman Detective Comics, Superman #1, blah, blah, blah.

 

You know what surprised me? There were drinks on the tables with the books. Wet drinks. The kind cause immediate, irreversible damage.

 

Were people outraged about the possible damage? There were a few jokes made about it, but nobody was called any mean names about it. Jimbo might have even participated in the thread...I can't remember.

 

Our books are endangered every single time they are not sitting at criogenic rest so for me that negates the "oh, it might get damaged during pressing" fear. It might get damaged during grading / shipping / reading (on or off the toilet) / showing off to family and friends / sharing / lugging them around at shows / sitting in the back of a truck being driven across the country, etc.

 

In some circles logic like this is called straining at gnats but swallowing camels.

 

It just doesn't take into perspective the big picture.

 

That's a well-reasoned position. One I can't really disagree with all that much.

 

For me, this is a hobby with relations driven by transactions, whether that be talking shop, buying or selling. In every instance, those transactions hinge on our reputations and integrity.

 

Following this path of logic to it's conclusion, when the transaction involves the exchange of goods for money, you are in essence buying that sellers reputation.

 

The idea of transacting under false pretenses is one thing I simply cannot reconcile about the play on reconditioning books and manipulating their appearance without disclosure of the work carried out.

 

This should not mean one should adopt a take no prisoners attitude simply because the certification market has enabled, commodified and legitimized the practice of transacting without the need to divulge "hidden" work or defects between the covers.

 

It might not happen overnight, in a week, in a month or for several years. But the perception problems associated to the way this hobby has used reconditioning methods to salt grades, values and hyper-inflated market gains purely for greed will eventually catch-up with it.

 

I disagree. Using an example from the coins world (I often get jumped on for equating coins to comics, but whatever) there are acceptable degrees of altering a coin's appearance, and definitely fraudulent ones. Dipping a coin (if silver or gold, sometimes nickel, copper no (copper don't dip well) is an accepted practice, particularly if done by one with skills and experience. To the point where mention of same is hardly noted, UNLESS the coin is "dipped out", to the point where the appearance is unfavorably altered. Liken this to a good press job (undetectable) vs a bad one (way overdone, waffled, fanning, crushed what have yous.) So dipping = OK, if done right and well.

 

However, there are coin doctors who further the pursuit of enhancing a coin with chemicals, lasering, puttying, smoking, etc. with intent to deceive. Liken this to unmentioned ct, tear seals, glue pot and paste (underlining: when not mentioned -- not jabbing here at honest restoration techniques meant to be reversible/preserve books.)

 

The coin market says dipping is OK; more nefarious work, not OK. I see many parallels to comics with the one exception: it's actually pretty easy, with a practiced eye, to know dipped (and especially, dipped out) from not. I maintain that with a pressed book, absent personal knowledge of its history - not so much.

 

How would you treat a book, which spent nearly its entire life dismembered and trapped behind drywall, only to be salvaged, reassembled, and sold under the pretense the book had always been intact? Does the need to make "mo money" and thump ones chest on another "rare find" trump the need to know the history of the book and the lab work that allowed it to grade true blue?

 

I don't think it's all that necessary in the context of what I'm describing to list comparable practices in other collecting categories because this hobby is replete with it's own historical reference and vantage point. Namely, that comic certification played both sides long enough for those who saw a financial benefit in gamifying grades to give this activity legitimacy. What I'm saying is that reasons like "everyone else was doing it" or "if I didn't do it, someone else would" are what most of the players will find themselves saying to excuse the conduct and behaviour.

 

I won't be that guy.

I kind of think I know what golden age comic book your alluding to, and right off the bat a flag went up when I read about it.

It just seemed too perfect a story for my tastes.

 

[VintageComics]

Roy, Mr Myst, do we have a winner?

There is no winner, there's just understanding between sides.

 

 

[Ditch Fahrenheit]

[Davenport]

[Ditch Fahrenheit]

 

[bababooey]

 

Coles That's the Canadian price variant!

[miraclemet]

no magic left in that book, so sad.

[comix4fun]

no magic left in that book, so sad.

 

 

 

[comix4fun]

Roy, Mr Myst, do we have a winner?

There is no winner, there's just understanding between sides.

 

 

 

 

[sufunk]

[Spiderphill]

Just want to shout out all of the closet pressers who bash pressing. May the grade bumps be with you.