• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Crom! How high will it go?

Started by lb jefferies,

59 posts in this topic

jbud73

jbud73

Posted
Posted
I've got a few J Buscema pages and clearly, the inker has an significant influence on the look of his work. Has there been another artist who's desirability of work either soars or falls based on the inker as much as JB?

 

Well there is Kirby. Sinnott inked Kirby and then everything else is a large step behind.

 

For stuff I collect, Perez inking himself is the high water mark and usually brings a premium.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
delekkerste

delekkerste

Posted
Posted
Speaking of Buscema Surfer this unpublished cover on Clink is at $24,000 with 6 days left. Pretty impressive.

 

Burkey has had it offered at $24K for a long time. I think it's a low $20Ks piece, so $24K doesn't strike me as being particularly unusual if it ends around there, which I'm guessing it probably will. 2c

Link to comment
Share on other sites
robert frey

robert frey

Posted
Posted
I've got a few J Buscema pages and clearly, the inker has an significant influence on the look of his work. Has there been another artist who's desirability of work either soars or falls based on the inker as much as JB?

 

Well there is Kirby. Sinnott inked Kirby and then everything else is a large step behind.

 

For stuff I collect, Perez inking himself is the high water mark and usually brings a premium.

 

i don't know-- while i agree that kirby/sinnott demands a premium, i don't think desirability or value is hurt too bad by other kirby inkers: wood, giacoia, royer, stone..............

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
lb jefferies

lb jefferies

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Speaking of Buscema Surfer this unpublished cover on Clink is at $24,000 with 6 days left. Pretty impressive.

 

Burkey has had it offered at $24K for a long time. I think it's a low $20Ks piece, so $24K doesn't strike me as being particularly unusual if it ends around there, which I'm guessing it probably will. 2c

 

I always thought Mike had this too high. And now I'm even more surprised that the potential new owner didn't simply buy it from him. Are there really (big ticket) OA collectors that are oblivious to dealers?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
delekkerste

delekkerste

Posted
Posted
I always thought Mike had this too high. And now I'm even more surprised that the potential new owner didn't simply buy it from him. Are there really (big ticket) OA collectors that are oblivious to dealers?

 

If $24K was too high, I think it wasn't by much - I'm guessing it would have flown off the shelf at $20K, and $22K strikes me as about right.

 

I don't know that there are a lot of OA collectors who are oblivious to dealers - I just think that, when a piece is at auction, and people know it's going to sell and they see other people interested in the piece as well, it creates a frenzied and competitive dynamic that didn't exist when the piece was just sitting on a dealer's website. Case in point the Frazetta Vampi #5 cover that was briefly on Burkey's site earlier this year at 6-figures less than where it sold in the last HA sale. hm

Link to comment
Share on other sites
dem1138

dem1138

Posted
Posted

I think these auctions attract a much larger pool of buyers and many of them may not be aware of or actively searching dealer websites or attending conventions. They may see something at auction and decide to go for it without any background knowledge.

 

I can tell you from limited experience working a booth at cons that you can throw out all of your preconceived notions on buyers from your experiences on these boards. People buy books without negotiating. They treat the prices as if they were buying a product at a store. They don't even ask for a better price. Secondly, people come in from all walks of life and spend their money and then may not buy again until the same convention comes around the next year.

 

I would also add that there are some big spenders that only buy from auctions. They like the fact that if they are the highest bidder when the auction closes, then the piece belongs to them and there are no games and no nonsense. They do not want to deal with dealers or conventions - they just want to bid online, win the piece, and go back to their busy lives.

 

I think these reasons above as well as a few others I'm sure that I'm not aware of, contribute to the erratic prices that we see at auction.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
mtlevy

mtlevy

Posted
Posted
I've got a few J Buscema pages and clearly, the inker has an significant influence on the look of his work. Has there been another artist who's desirability of work either soars or falls based on the inker as much as JB?

 

Well there is Kirby. Sinnott inked Kirby and then everything else is a large step behind.

 

For stuff I collect, Perez inking himself is the high water mark and usually brings a premium.

 

i don't know-- while i agree that kirby/sinnott demands a premium, i don't think desirability or value is hurt too bad by other kirby inkers: wood, giacoia, royer, stone..............

 

I'll pay Sinnott prices for Everett inks!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
mtlevy

mtlevy

Posted
Posted
I've got a few J Buscema pages and clearly, the inker has an significant influence on the look of his work. Has there been another artist who's desirability of work either soars or falls based on the inker as much as JB?

 

Well there is Kirby. Sinnott inked Kirby and then everything else is a large step behind.

 

For stuff I collect, Perez inking himself is the high water mark and usually brings a premium.

 

Bolland?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
glendgold

glendgold

Posted
Posted
I've got a few J Buscema pages and clearly, the inker has an significant influence on the look of his work. Has there been another artist who's desirability of work either soars or falls based on the inker as much as JB?

 

Neal Adams.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Hekla

Hekla

Posted
Posted
I've got a few J Buscema pages and clearly, the inker has an significant influence on the look of his work. Has there been another artist who's desirability of work either soars or falls based on the inker as much as JB?

 

Neal Adams.

 

Really? I haven't seen many of Adams' pages in person, but I've always thought of his work as consistant. Maybe I should study a wider range his work ...

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Lago32

Lago32

Posted
Posted
I've got a few J Buscema pages and clearly, the inker has an significant influence on the look of his work. Has there been another artist who's desirability of work either soars or falls based on the inker as much as JB?

 

Neal Adams.

 

It's funny, I started typing a response indicating that I wouldn't necessarily agree that Adams art values fluctuate at such extremes as soaring or falling based on who inked him....but then I started thinking about the pretty big value gap between Wrightson, Palmer and Adams inks as opposed to Giordano, Giacoia, Adkins, Sinnott and Verpooten.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Brian Peck

Brian Peck

Posted
Posted
I've got a few J Buscema pages and clearly, the inker has an significant influence on the look of his work. Has there been another artist who's desirability of work either soars or falls based on the inker as much as JB?

 

Neal Adams.

 

It's funny, I started typing a response indicating that I wouldn't necessarily agree that Adams art values fluctuate at such extremes as soaring or falling based on who inked him....but then I started thinking about the pretty big value gap between Wrightson, Palmer and Adams inks as opposed to Giordano, Giacoia, Adkins, Sinnott and Verpooten.

 

Trying to compare inkers over John across series is tough. Many worked with him on popular series, Silver Surfer, Submariner, Avengers. Palmer is a perfect example of content and timing, his inks over JB on their first run when John did full pencils is much more than their 2nd run when John did layouts/breakdwns.

Best comparison on inkers would be his Conan run since w he worked with so many inkers. When Neal inked him they didn't do many issues together but with Chan and Dezuniga they did a lot of issue together.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
jbud73

jbud73

Posted
Posted
I think these auctions attract a much larger pool of buyers and many of them may not be aware of or actively searching dealer websites or attending conventions. They may see something at auction and decide to go for it without any background knowledge.

 

I can tell you from limited experience working a booth at cons that you can throw out all of your preconceived notions on buyers from your experiences on these boards. People buy books without negotiating. They treat the prices as if they were buying a product at a store. They don't even ask for a better price. Secondly, people come in from all walks of life and spend their money and then may not buy again until the same convention comes around the next year.

 

I would also add that there are some big spenders that only buy from auctions. They like the fact that if they are the highest bidder when the auction closes, then the piece belongs to them and there are no games and no nonsense. They do not want to deal with dealers or conventions - they just want to bid online, win the piece, and go back to their busy lives.

 

I think these reasons above as well as a few others I'm sure that I'm not aware of, contribute to the erratic prices that we see at auction.

 

Not that I' a big spender (usually in 2K-10K range) but I definitely fall into the category of those that only buy at auction (I bought a 1K piece off Albert this year, a 4 yr gap between my last piece from Will Gabriel). Here are some factors that have led my purchases to favor auction houses.

 

- Historical over paying with dealer purchases. I've always just come away with a sense that I paid a too much through the dealers. I know there are pieces on record that have gone for more at auction, but all those pieces that sell at auction only to turn up on dealer sites a few weeks later with 50 to 100 % mark ups. Well that creates a mentality that everything on the site is 50 to 100 percent more expensive than it would close for at auction.

 

- Time: There is something to be said for the method of an auction, in that it eases you into the price. They start off at $1 which everyone can afford and start to move from there. You get to see the pieces for weeks at preview, start saving and getting a war chest together - knowing that the piece is not going anywhere you have time to get it together. The auction slowly builds usually and if the piece goes over your comfort level in the build up you can walk away, No one ever knowing you were interested. You could conceivable enter into (by bidding) and never close on 100s of pieces without wasting anyone's time but your own.

 

- Negotiation: In that there is no negotiation at auction and some people do not like to negotiate, I happen to do it for a living. That said, anyone who deals with or understands negotiation also understands that factors like, opening contact, environment, ability to walk away, context of relationship and a whole myriad of factors go into the process. Really when buying a piece from an OA dealer you are almost immediately at a disadvantage in classic negotiation - on their turf, making the first contact / move, unaware of other parties of interest etc.

 

- Anonymity: The process of buying a piece with a few clicks of the mouse verses having to contact the dealer, discuss the piece, arrive at a price (assuming you don't pay the ask) transfer funds. Now this can of course work to your disadvantage as good dealers will remember what you bought, discuss other things you may be interested in and contact you in the event they become aware of them.

 

Of course the Karma comeback of that is in every instance where a dealer has contacted me because they were aware of a piece I would be interested in, the ask was significantly above market value, in fact 3 of the 5 pieces in this scenario would later be auctioned off and hammer at 30-70% less than the dealer quoted me. Again being first to market, or getting first crack through a dealer will usually cost you more. The off set is that you get the piece without going to competition and depends on how much more you are willing to pay. However, for me this was positive reinforcement that I would be overpaying for a piece procured through a OA dealer verses one bought at auction.

 

2c2c

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dick O.

Dick O.

Posted
Posted
I would also add that there are some big spenders that only buy from auctions. They like the fact that if they are the highest bidder when the auction closes, then the piece belongs to them and there are no games and no nonsense. They do not want to deal with dealers or conventions - they just want to bid online, win the piece, and go back to their busy lives.

 

Spot on David. Doesn't apply to a small fish like me who still enjoys contacting and purchasing from other collectors though :P

 

- Historical over paying with dealer purchases. I've always just come away with a sense that I paid a too much through the dealers. I know there are pieces on record that have gone for more at auction, but all those pieces that sell at auction only to turn up on dealer sites a few weeks later with 50 to 100 % mark ups. Well that creates a mentality that everything on the site is 50 to 100 percent more expensive than it would close for at auction.

 

Totally agree Jason. As you mentioned, it isn't always the case but constantly seeing auctioned pieces appearing marked-up on dealer sites does give that impression. To be fair, this practice isn't just confined to dealers and everybody's gotta eat somehow!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
jbud73

jbud73

Posted
Posted
I would also add that there are some big spenders that only buy from auctions. They like the fact that if they are the highest bidder when the auction closes, then the piece belongs to them and there are no games and no nonsense. They do not want to deal with dealers or conventions - they just want to bid online, win the piece, and go back to their busy lives.

 

Spot on David. Doesn't apply to a small fish like me who still enjoys contacting and purchasing from other collectors though :P

 

- Historical over paying with dealer purchases. I've always just come away with a sense that I paid a too much through the dealers. I know there are pieces on record that have gone for more at auction, but all those pieces that sell at auction only to turn up on dealer sites a few weeks later with 50 to 100 % mark ups. Well that creates a mentality that everything on the site is 50 to 100 percent more expensive than it would close for at auction.

 

Totally agree Jason. As you mentioned, it isn't always the case but constantly seeing auctioned pieces appearing marked-up on dealer sites does give that impression. To be fair, this practice isn't just confined to dealers and everybody's gotta eat somehow!

 

Just to elaborate on the other side of the fence as I have had a lot of discussions lately with some of the more seasoned OA collectors who have more experience in purchasing items off the Big Dealers. On one hand there is a lot more fresh to market material going straight to the auction houses, I view this as a good thing based on the aforementioned percentage of OA I buy at auction.

 

However, there is something to be said for being a customer of an OA dealer and have them understand some of the things that you may be interested in. Of course there are unscrupulous entities that may buy a piece only to hold it hostage and flip it to you, but many of the top OA dealers do understand that customer service is a requirement for long term business. The mentality is that it may not be cheap, but every once in a while getting first shot is more important than the extra money you may need to spend in order to acquire it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Go to topic listing