The Walking Dead #1 vs. New Mutants 98

[Wall-Crawler]

I can see TWD "levelling off" but not crashing.

 

Anyone know the print run of TWD #1 vs NM #98???

 

65 issues too late for that

I don't get that. Why is 100 zombie comics too many, but thousands upon thousands of comics featuring any A list superhero, and people are still begging for more?

 

I think he met it was 65 issues too late for Rick to still be the lead in TWD?

 

 

No in keeping it fresh...what has happened since 48?

 

I follow in trades so yes I am a bit behind now but I guess the newest A few more long-standing characters have died....The development of the whole 'feuding kingdoms' bit?

 

In terms of value, I can see TWD "levelling off" but not crashing.

 

Anyone know the print run of TWD #1 vs NM #98???

[Prince Namor]

I can see TWD "levelling off" but not crashing.

 

Anyone know the print run of TWD #1 vs NM #98???

 

65 issues too late for that

I don't get that. Why is 100 zombie comics too many, but thousands upon thousands of comics featuring any A list superhero, and people are still begging for more?

 

I think he met it was 65 issues too late for Rick to still be the lead in TWD?

 

 

No in keeping it fresh...what has happened since 48?

 

I follow in trades so yes I am a bit behind now but I guess the newest A few more long-standing characters have died....The development of the whole 'feuding kingdoms' bit?

 

In terms of value, I can see TWD "levelling off" but not crashing.

 

Anyone know the print run of TWD #1 vs NM #98???

 

Probably close to 7000 vs 375,000

[paperheart]

 

65 issues too late for that

I don't get that. Why is 100 zombie comics too many, but thousands upon thousands of comics featuring any A list superhero, and people are still begging for more?

 

I think he met it was 65 issues too late for Rick to still be the lead in TWD?

 

 

No in keeping it fresh...what has happened since 48?

 

yes, i still read it but it's been wash, rinse, repeat ad nauseum since #48.

[NewWorldOrder]

Nobody has mentioned the print run yet.

 

7Kish vs what 500k?

 

Exactly...WD was a total sleeper from Image with a 7k+ versus The Marvel printing machine pumping out hundreds of thousands of issues.

 

The fact a NM98 10.0 went that high is it is the lone book at the top of the hill.

 

A single WD 1 10.0 would go for double or more than what the NM 98 sold for (15k?)

 

Just my speculation

 

Don't think it would.

 

Probably similar final auction price on both.

[ComicConnoisseur]

So after reading yet another thread on the walking dead, I see the comment that it is THE modern comic. And immediately I think of New Mutants 98.. Now I understand many members do not still read books, definitely have never read a Deadpool comic, and would be lost as to what was happening in the book. But it has me thinking.... Could you REALLY compare TWD to NM98? I mean seriously? This is totally up for debate, but to pitt a zombie book that should end eventually vs. the most popular Marvel character since Wolverine? I don't see it myself.

Speaking of the Wolverine, maybe Walking Dead #1 should be compared to Incredible Hulk #181 as well?

Right now I would say Walking Dead is more popular than Wolverine.

My reasoning is The Walking Dead has dominated Wolverine in sales when we compare graphic novels, action figures, trading cards and video games. It`s not even close in some cases. Even the last Wolverine movie did mediocre at the box office compared to the Walking Dead`s record breaking ratings.

I am really not a Walking Dead fan boy, but I can`t deny it`s success. It`s the modern generation`s Spider-Man.

 

[ComicConnoisseur]

I can see TWD "levelling off" but not crashing.

 

Anyone know the print run of TWD #1 vs NM #98???

 

65 issues too late for that

I don't get that. Why is 100 zombie comics too many, but thousands upon thousands of comics featuring any A list superhero, and people are still begging for more?

 

I think he met it was 65 issues too late for Rick to still be the lead in TWD?

 

 

No in keeping it fresh...what has happened since 48?

 

I follow in trades so yes I am a bit behind now but I guess the newest A few more long-standing characters have died....The development of the whole 'feuding kingdoms' bit?

 

In terms of value, I can see TWD "levelling off" but not crashing.

 

Anyone know the print run of TWD #1 vs NM #98???

 

Probably close to 7000 vs 375,000

Supply and Demand.

The Walking Dead was the perfect storm. I remember when the Walking Dead #1 was going for $100, and that was at least two years before any talk of a TV show.

[Mark 1]

Nobody has mentioned the print run yet.

 

7Kish vs what 500k?

 

Exactly...WD was a total sleeper from Image with a 7k+ versus The Marvel printing machine pumping out hundreds of thousands of issues.

 

The fact a NM98 10.0 went that high is it is the lone book at the top of the hill.

 

A single WD 1 10.0 would go for double or more than what the NM 98 sold for (15k?)

 

Just my speculation

 

Don't think it would.

 

Probably similar final auction price on both.

 

I disagree. A 9.9 WD sells for around 10-11k. A 10.0 would sell for over 20k in my opinion. Maybe more

[kidcolt]

Older don't mean jack with regards to the secondary market. Like everything collectible sales are based on supply and demand. TWD has a huge following especially since the TV show and with a low 7000 #1 produced it will remain popular. NM 92 has 500K produced , it has potential to have 7000 books grade at a 9.9 even with the tough black spine on the book. If NM 92 had only 7000 books produced then it would be a different conversation but it don't. Ant to be honest TWD is a better read then NM 92 and I love Deadpool.

[Bosco685]

Do you mean New Mutants 98?

 

[delekkerste]

Could you REALLY compare TWD to NM98? I mean seriously? This is totally up for debate, but to pitt a zombie book that should end eventually vs. the most popular Marvel character since Wolverine? I don't see it myself.

 

The most popular Marvel character since Wolverine is the equivalent of PSY's most popular song after "Gangnam Style". Deadpool might be relatively popular nowadays, but the size of the comic book readership is a fraction of what it used to be, and it looks like Deadpool sells only around 50K copies per issue. I think a Deadpool movie would bomb at the box office, which I guess is so obvious that a movie hasn't been greenlighted yet.

 

I love TWD, but, sorry to the die-hards out there - its popularity isn't going to last forever. You can call it a human drama and call the zombies incidental but, c'mon...not really. Given the attention span of the average person, I'd wager that the series' popularity has either already hit its peak with season 3 or will do so with season 4 of the TV series. The market for both the comics and the OA from the series has probably already peaked as of this spring; I doubt this is just a lull between TV seasons like the apologists claim - as if prices were that correlated with TV broadcast schedules. In any case, even if prices don't tank, I bet overall interest wanes, liquidity on the non-key issues plummets and the keys don't have much upside potential from here. In short - buy 'em if you like 'em, but I don't think anybody is going to get rich here unless they're pressing for profit - hard to see big gains coming from buying and holding.

[Lethal_Collector]

So after reading yet another thread on the walking dead, I see the comment that it is THE modern comic. And immediately I think of New Mutants 98.. Now I understand many members do not still read books, definitely have never read a Deadpool comic, and would be lost as to what was happening in the book. But it has me thinking.... Could you REALLY compare TWD to NM98? I mean seriously? This is totally up for debate, but to pitt a zombie book that should end eventually vs. the most popular Marvel character since Wolverine? I don't see it myself.

 

Venom is next biggest character after Wolvie, THEN Deadpool. Sale prices of ASM 300 are nearly double that of NM 98. So imho, the thread should be WD #1 vs ASM 300. Or better yet, WD #1 vs. TMNT #1

 

 

Jerome

[oakman29]

So after reading yet another thread on the walking dead, I see the comment that it is THE modern comic. And immediately I think of New Mutants 98.. Now I understand many members do not still read books, definitely have never read a Deadpool comic, and would be lost as to what was happening in the book. But it has me thinking.... Could you REALLY compare TWD to NM98? I mean seriously? This is totally up for debate, but to pitt a zombie book that should end eventually vs. the most popular Marvel character since Wolverine? I don't see it myself.

 

Venom is next biggest character after Wolvie, THEN Deadpool. Sale prices of ASM 300 are nearly double that of NM 98. So imho, the thread should be WD #1 vs ASM 300. Or better yet, WD #1 vs. TMNT #1

 

 

Jerome

 

TMNT#1 Will always be THE copper grail to achieve.

[newshane]

NM 98 vs. Walking Dead?

 

I pick the Walking Dead. Why?

 

There are a billion NM98s out there...not nearly as many Walking Deads.

 

[Bosco685]

So after reading yet another thread on the walking dead, I see the comment that it is THE modern comic. And immediately I think of New Mutants 98.. Now I understand many members do not still read books, definitely have never read a Deadpool comic, and would be lost as to what was happening in the book. But it has me thinking.... Could you REALLY compare TWD to NM98? I mean seriously? This is totally up for debate, but to pitt a zombie book that should end eventually vs. the most popular Marvel character since Wolverine? I don't see it myself.

 

Venom is next biggest character after Wolvie, THEN Deadpool. Sale prices of ASM 300 are nearly double that of NM 98. So imho, the thread should be WD #1 vs ASM 300. Or better yet, WD #1 vs. TMNT #1

 

 

Jerome

 

TMNT#1 Will always be THE copper grail to achieve.

 

Albedo 2 CGC 9.8 sold for $7,000 last year. I'd say it is up there for high-demand independents.

[ComicConnoisseur]

So after reading yet another thread on the walking dead, I see the comment that it is THE modern comic. And immediately I think of New Mutants 98.. Now I understand many members do not still read books, definitely have never read a Deadpool comic, and would be lost as to what was happening in the book. But it has me thinking.... Could you REALLY compare TWD to NM98? I mean seriously? This is totally up for debate, but to pitt a zombie book that should end eventually vs. the most popular Marvel character since Wolverine? I don't see it myself.

 

Venom is next biggest character after Wolvie, THEN Deadpool. Sale prices of ASM 300 are nearly double that of NM 98. So imho, the thread should be WD #1 vs ASM 300. Or better yet, WD #1 vs. TMNT #1

 

 

Jerome

 

TMNT#1 Will always be THE copper grail to achieve.

+1 brother!

In the last 40 years it is the mega key of all mega keys.

Walking Dead #1 even pales in comparison to TMNT#1

[Old Fashion PB and J]

So after reading yet another thread on the walking dead, I see the comment that it is THE modern comic. And immediately I think of New Mutants 98.. Now I understand many members do not still read books, definitely have never read a Deadpool comic, and would be lost as to what was happening in the book. But it has me thinking.... Could you REALLY compare TWD to NM98? I mean seriously? This is totally up for debate, but to pitt a zombie book that should end eventually vs. the most popular Marvel character since Wolverine? I don't see it myself.

 

Venom is next biggest character after Wolvie, THEN Deadpool. Sale prices of ASM 300 are nearly double that of NM 98. So imho, the thread should be WD #1 vs ASM 300. Or better yet, WD #1 vs. TMNT #1

 

 

Jerome

Deadpool has proven he can carry his own title and sustain. Venom has NOT. I considered this, but since there are 1,000's of ASM collectors, that will carry this book. Eddie Brock is not so hot if he isn't chasing spidey, and that would not work worth a monthly.

[Old Fashion PB and J]

So after reading yet another thread on the walking dead, I see the comment that it is THE modern comic. And immediately I think of New Mutants 98.. Now I understand many members do not still read books, definitely have never read a Deadpool comic, and would be lost as to what was happening in the book. But it has me thinking.... Could you REALLY compare TWD to NM98? I mean seriously? This is totally up for debate, but to pitt a zombie book that should end eventually vs. the most popular Marvel character since Wolverine? I don't see it myself.

 

Venom is next biggest character after Wolvie, THEN Deadpool. Sale prices of ASM 300 are nearly double that of NM 98. So imho, the thread should be WD #1 vs ASM 300. Or better yet, WD #1 vs. TMNT #1

 

 

Jerome

 

TMNT#1 Will always be THE copper grail to achieve.

+1 brother!

In the last 40 years it is the mega key of all mega keys.

Walking Dead #1 even pales in comparison to TMNT#1

Strictly due to scarcity. Another title that gets no attention. The big issue here is staying power. TMNT will ALWAYS be scarce, but never be "that" popular a title. TWD will be "that" popular a title, but will eventually fall off.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Come on, folks, this is 2013. We don't need to make stuff up out of thin air anymore. We have Google and the internet; this information is at the tips of our fingers.

 

Facts:

 

Statement of Ownership, New Mutants #99.

 

Filing Date: Oct 1, 1990.

 

So the single issue nearest to filing date published for purposes of item #10A, Net Press Run, since #99 was printed and published in Jan of 1991, would be either #95 or #96...probably #95...well after Liefeld and Cable became "hot."

 

Average number of copies printed for the preceding period was 289,387, and the actual press run of the single issue nearest to filing date for which this information was known (#95) was 318,102.

 

Next, we have total paid circulation, item #10C, with the following numbers: avg number of copies sold was 182,499, while the single issue nearest to filing date for which this information was known was 194,300. This is the ACTUAL NUMBER OF COPIES SOLD.

 

Now...there is some debate as to whether or not the issue "nearest to filing date" for net press run and the issue "nearest to filing date" for paid circulation is THE SAME ISSUE. If they are not, those numbers would be represented by issues #95 and probably #93, respectively. If they are, obviously they didn't have the paid circulation numbers until approximately two months after the issue first went on sale, so in this case, it would be #93.

 

However...it must be pointed out that in the PREVIOUS statement of ownership, published in issue #89, the numbers were HIGHER, with average print run 313,910; average paid circulation 210,335, so even with blips, the average was still about 10% LESS during the first 8-10 months of Liefeld's tenure than the previous year. New Mutants, sadly, was a declining title, which is the most often cited reason as to why it was given to Liefeld in the first place.

 

It would make sense, either way, as a Wolverine appearance was still a force to be reckoned with, and numbers for #93 OR #95 were up substantially from previous issues, which explains the higher numbers. #95, it must be noted, was part of the first round of X-Tinction Agenda, a crossover so popular, it created the very first demand-based second printings in X-Men history. X-Men #270, New Mutants #95, and X-Factor #60 all sold out at the distribution level, prompting second printings of all three issues almost immediately, a phenomenon that was totally unknown to Marvel before 1990.

 

If we look at Capital City order numbers, which are known, the order numbers for New Mutants #98 was 55,200. According to established sources, Capital City accounted for about 25-30% of all comics sales at that point, with Diamond accounting for another 40-45% and the newsstand distribution system accounting for the remaining 25-35%. It is important to remember that Net Press Run can be deceiving, as the Direct Market bought comics at a steeper discount that could NOT be returned, while newsstands were returnable. So, while sales at the newsstand accounted for 25-35% of the market, the print run for the newsstand accounted for about 50% of the total print run, with about 70% of the newsstand run ending up as returns (destroyed.) Quite astonishing numbers, but fairly standard at the time. Obviously, the bulk of actual sales at this point was to the Direct Market. (70%+)

 

It is also important to keep in mind that AFTER X-Tinction Agenda was over, orders naturally sank back down. Deadpool as a character did not ignite the world on fire. He would not reappear in the pages of any comic for another 6 months, in the pages of X-Force #1, and then not in a story until issue #2. Unlike both Cable and Gambit, who were immensely popular at or relatively near the time of their first appearances, Deadpool would take 3 years...until his first mini by new fav Joe Maduriera...to "break out", and then it was only a temporary blip. it would be another nearly 15 years before the character finally gained traction with the collecting community as anything beyond a $5 book.

 

With the 52,500 Cap City number, that puts an actual sales total of *approximately* 175,000-210,000 copies of New Mutants #98 sold, on a print run of about 300,000 (again, this is generous, as the print run for #93 or #95...probably #95...the first part of X-Tinction Agenda...was 318,000 copies, and while the print run would go up for #96 and #97, they would have sunk back down again for #98.)

 

What does all of that mean? Practically speaking, an absolute print run of between 250,000-350,000 TOPS, against actual sales of 175,000-225,000, with the rest BEING DESTROYED (or, at least, mangled beyond collectability.)

 

Remember...print runs in the days of the newsstand are fairly meaningless as indicators of existing copies when dealing with books that were distributed to the newsstand (as nearly every single Marvel book was and is even to this day.) It wasn't until the newsstand pretty much died in the mid-90's that print runs came near to being absolute numbers in terms of existing copies, meaning that there was NEVER a print run of "500,000 or more" of this book, and actual surviving copies in collectable condition is somewhere around 200,000 in the best case scenario.

 

This book was printed, published, and placed on sale in December of 1990. It would be another nearly 2 years before print runs would increase drastically for nearly all mainstream comics. Yes, you had the anomalous Spiderman #1, but that was all Todd McFarlane. Prior to that, the modern record holder was Legends of the Dark Knight, with 800,000 copies printed. Yes, you read that correctly. The modern RECORD HOLDER (post 1969) for most copies printed was Legends of the Dark Knight #1 at about 800,000. Spiderman came along and topped it at ~1.75 million, but the real craziness didn't even start until 1991's X-Men, then 1992's Spawn #1 and Superman #75...and THEN the lunacy that was 1993 came about.

 

December of 1990...? Not so much.

 

So...can we please put to rest the claims that New Mutants #98 has hundreds and hundreds of thousands of copies, all in pristine condition, sitting around waiting to be subbed...? Tens of thousands, yes. Hundreds....? No.

[Comicopolis]

So after reading yet another thread on the walking dead, I see the comment that it is THE modern comic. And immediately I think of New Mutants 98.. Now I understand many members do not still read books, definitely have never read a Deadpool comic, and would be lost as to what was happening in the book. But it has me thinking.... Could you REALLY compare TWD to NM98? I mean seriously? This is totally up for debate, but to pitt a zombie book that should end eventually vs. the most popular Marvel character since Wolverine? I don't see it myself.

 

Deadpool is the most popular Marvel character since Wolverine?

 

That is sad.

[Ryan.]

Come on, folks, this is 2013. We don't need to make stuff up out of thin air anymore. We have Google and the internet; this information is at the tips of our fingers.

 

Facts:

 

Statement of Ownership, New Mutants #99.

 

Filing Date: Oct 1, 1990.

 

So the single issue nearest to filing date published for purposes of item #10A, Net Press Run, since #99 was printed and published in Jan of 1991, would be either #95 or #96...probably #95...well after Liefeld and Cable became "hot."

 

Average number of copies printed for the preceding period was 289,387, and the actual press run of the single issue nearest to filing date for which this information was known (#95) was 318,102.

 

Next, we have total paid circulation, item #10C, with the following numbers: avg number of copies sold was 182,499, while the single issue nearest to filing date for which this information was known was 194,300. This is the ACTUAL NUMBER OF COPIES SOLD.

 

Now...there is some debate as to whether or not the issue "nearest to filing date" for net press run and the issue "nearest to filing date" for paid circulation is THE SAME ISSUE. If they are not, those numbers would be represented by issues #95 and probably #93, respectively. If they are, obviously they didn't have the paid circulation numbers until approximately two months after the issue first went on sale, so in this case, it would be #93.

 

However...it must be pointed out that in the PREVIOUS statement of ownership, published in issue #89, the numbers were HIGHER, with average print run 313,910; average paid circulation 210,335, so even with blips, the average was still about 10% LESS during the first 8-10 months of Liefeld's tenure than the previous year. New Mutants, sadly, was a declining title, which is the most often cited reason as to why it was given to Liefeld in the first place.

 

It would make sense, either way, as a Wolverine appearance was still a force to be reckoned with, and numbers for #93 OR #95 were up substantially from previous issues, which explains the higher numbers. #95, it must be noted, was part of the first round of X-Tinction Agenda, a crossover so popular, it created the very first demand-based second printings in X-Men history. X-Men #270, New Mutants #95, and X-Factor #60 all sold out at the distribution level, prompting second printings of all three issues almost immediately, a phenomenon that was totally unknown to Marvel before 1990.

 

If we look at Capital City order numbers, which are known, the order numbers for New Mutants #98 was 55,200. According to established sources, Capital City accounted for about 25-30% of all comics sales at that point, with Diamond accounting for another 40-45% and the newsstand distribution system accounting for the remaining 25-35%. It is important to remember that Net Press Run can be deceiving, as the Direct Market bought comics at a steeper discount that could NOT be returned, while newsstands were returnable. So, while sales at the newsstand accounted for 25-35% of the market, the print run for the newsstand accounted for about 50% of the total print run, with about 70% of the newsstand run ending up as returns (destroyed.) Quite astonishing numbers, but fairly standard at the time. Obviously, the bulk of actual sales at this point was to the Direct Market. (70%+)

 

It is also important to keep in mind that AFTER X-Tinction Agenda was over, orders naturally sank back down. Deadpool as a character did not ignite the world on fire. He would not reappear in the pages of any comic for another 6 months, in the pages of X-Force #1, and then not in a story until issue #2. Unlike both Cable and Gambit, who were immensely popular at or relatively near the time of their first appearances, Deadpool would take 3 years...until his first mini by new fav Joe Maduriera...to "break out", and then it was only a temporary blip. it would be another nearly 15 years before the character finally gained traction with the collecting community as anything beyond a $5 book.

 

With the 52,500 Cap City number, that puts an actual sales total of *approximately* 175,000-210,000 copies of New Mutants #98 sold, on a print run of about 300,000 (again, this is generous, as the print run for #93 or #95...probably #95...the first part of X-Tinction Agenda...was 318,000 copies, and while the print run would go up for #96 and #97, they would have sunk back down again for #98.)

 

What does all of that mean? Practically speaking, an absolute print run of between 250,000-350,000 TOPS, against actual sales of 175,000-225,000, with the rest BEING DESTROYED (or, at least, mangled beyond collectability.)

 

Remember...print runs in the days of the newsstand are fairly meaningless as indicators of existing copies when dealing with books that were distributed to the newsstand (as nearly every single Marvel book was and is even to this day.) It wasn't until the newsstand pretty much died in the mid-90's that print runs came near to being absolute numbers in terms of existing copies, meaning that there was NEVER a print run of "500,000 or more" of this book, and actual surviving copies in collectable condition is somewhere around 200,000 in the best case scenario.

 

This book was printed, published, and placed on sale in December of 1990. It would be another nearly 2 years before print runs would increase drastically for nearly all mainstream comics. Yes, you had the anomalous Spiderman #1, but that was all Todd McFarlane. Prior to that, the modern record holder was Legends of the Dark Knight, with 800,000 copies printed. Yes, you read that correctly. The modern RECORD HOLDER (post 1969) for most copies printed was Legends of the Dark Knight #1 at about 800,000. Spiderman came along and topped it at ~1.75 million, but the real craziness didn't even start until 1991's X-Men, then 1992's Spawn #1 and Superman #75...and THEN the lunacy that was 1993 came about.

 

December of 1990...? Not so much.

 

So...can we please put to rest the claims that New Mutants #98 has hundreds and hundreds of thousands of copies, all in pristine condition, sitting around waiting to be subbed...? Tens of thousands, yes. Hundreds....? No.

 

So WD1 or NM98?