CGC or CGG

[Michael JC-migration]

From what I've been seeing, it looks like CGC opened the flood gates over the last few months with their lax grading esp. moderns. Talk about rolling the dice ....SLAB DAMAGE. What is that card grading co. that only grades their cards 9s & 10s??

 

 

Let me put it this way: I would NEVER spend MY own hard earned money on subbing modern books to PGA.

 

1. They don't know how to grade on an even keel! TOO TOUGH on anything 1980 and newer to the point of absurdness!

 

2. Grades not consistent. I saw a Web of Spidey 1 with over 1" LRC crease graded at VF- 7.5, meanwhile from THE SAME BATCH an ASM 317 which had only an off center lower staple (bindery flaw!) as it's ONLY flaw at F/VF 7.0 !!! Something rotten in Denmark , or should that be Oregon??? .....

 

So, sight unseen, I think there is a greater chance that the PGA/ CGG book would be considered "rollling the dice." On the other hand, if one gets a chance to see the book up close & it turns out to be one of those "undergraded" PGA moderns: 1. buy the sucker 2. re-sub to CGC for higher, more reputable grade.

 

 

Were there any grading notes for the ASM 317? They did not grade it a 7.0 for an off-center staple, I am sure of that. And you can't grade a book once it is inside a holder as defects do disappear from sight when in the holder.

 

Would there be a way to set up a consistency trial between PGA & CGC. An independant company to submit books to each service, get them back and then resubmit them, and then compare consistency in grading. It would need to be done w/o the knowledge of either company knowing which books were the test books. The testing company would need separate submittors to submit each set of books, perhaps two submittors for the 1st round, then switch the books around so the same set of books is not being submitted on the same order.

 

This is just a rough draft of a plan to do this, I am just curious whether this would be something that would be worth doing? There was a group that did a test on PGA but it was done on their own accord and I don't think the data could be submitted as acceptable proof, although there test was done very professionally and had spectacular results.

 

[precodekeith]

...SAID the comic geek who quotes lame movie lines about comics...

I sell comics. I don't read them.Little boy.

 

Whatsa matter, NOSHILL, can't do any better than still resorting to name calling?

 

So, what is the name of your shop, mister big time seller?

 

Since you don't read comics, how can you give your customers the information they deserve? Maybe it's because you already apparently know everything anyway...

[VintageComics]

IThink it's one thing to say a book is undergraded because you or I can't see all the flaws in the case, but I owned a Nick Fury #1 CGC 9.6 (1968 or whatever it was) white that had a chip hanging off the back cover (about 1/8" by 1/4") , plus a spine stress , minor flecking on the Marvel overhang at the top of the cover, and that is only what i saw ! I have owned several CGC's that may have been a bit overgraded IMO, but the books I got back from CGG (or PGA) may have been harsh, but consistant. That is my experience. I can call a grade pretty close on books i have submitted to both companies.

[toro]

I myself have had good and bad experiences from both. CGG is consistantly harsh, but you get books in a decent amount of time. CGC will give you a better grade, but you will get your books back maybe within a year or so. The one thing I dislike about both is that grading should be consistant through out the ages. By that I mean a NM golden should be judged the same way a NM modern is. Does that mean silver and golden age books would receive lower grades, yes probably, but when you read most grading guidelines, it isn't a NM according to what year, but the positive aspects of the book regardless of the year.

[Harvey Dude]

Toro, WELCOME TO THE BOARD.

[BassGMan]

The one thing I dislike about both is that grading should be consistant through out the ages. By that I mean a NM golden should be judged the same way a NM modern is. Does that mean silver and golden age books would receive lower grades, yes probably, but when you read most grading guidelines, it isn't a NM according to what year, but the positive aspects of the book regardless of the year.

 

I agree 100%. This has always bugged me and I see the same thing from both companies. I see some SA books graded at 9.4 or 9.6 that would most likely be graded a 9.0 if printed in the 90s.

[VintageComics]

Darn tootin'!! Grade 'em like ya see 'em....What 'n tarnish is this gradin' cerve enyhow?? Ooops...too much Christmas cheer....urp?!?!?!?

[jokersrevenge]

There are other aspects to the companies than grading. I will keep sending my comics to cgc because I like the boards and the registry. I do wish they would get the turn_around times down though. With all the comics they are grading, surely they can hire some more graders @$7 an hour.

[michael clancy]

I just bought a CGC 8.0 Daredevil # 1 comic on ebay and it showed up with marvel chipping and a small chunk missing on right side of cover .CGC is not what it used to be .I would have graded this comic a 7.0 .I used to expect CGC to be tough but not anymore .I think I will buy a 8.0 pga comic and compare .CGC is like the expensive gas station thats 10 cents higher then the PGA cheap gas station .Same gas but there name sounds better .

[nik]

[precodekeith]

 

How IRONIC that someone with one post to their nic would choose to DIG UP this thread which has been dead well over a month now......

 

What are the odds!!??

 

creepy, spooky, eerie, even SHILLY.....uh, I mean CHILLY, yeah!

[the blob]

how about an FF #5 in solid VG - VG+ ish condition? (and i think i'm being fairly conservative on that one.)

 

I'm pretty sure there's no restoration (and I've owned it for about 10 years)

 

it's one of my babies, but the time might be right

 

or a Hulk 2 in VF? (definitely no resto on this one as i got it from an original owner collection and this guy wouldn't even know what resto was)

 

or a TOS 39 in G/VG? (same original owner) (The answer may be "NO" on this one re: slabbing, but it's one I'm having a tough time grading because based on CGC slabs I've seen it could be anywhere between a 2.5 and a 4.5.)

 

I've probably asked this before, but CGC seems so darn expensive for all of these books.

[precodekeith]

Blob -

I'd say both grading parties are relatively close in grading pre-1975 era books. So really, it would be up to you.

 

Are you going to flip the books? If so, you might want to spend the extra $ on CGC because the consensus among the masses right now is that CGC has a better restoration check and an all around better reputation; which may be more incentive for educated potential buyers.

 

If you plan on keeping them long term, and are already certain they haven't been restored (which shouldn't be a problem on g - vg silvers) then I don't see why you couldn't go with the "other" guys without implications. Just My Opinion.

[the blob]

well, i've had them for 10 years and they're in mylar already, so i won't be doing it for archival purposes. i'd probably be selling them. when i'm 55 i'll probably be regretting selling stuff off, but i need a few nice sales to keep my wife off my back and we have a bunch of household expenses. i haven't sold a single one of my (admittedly priced with a fair amount of optimism) slabs that i have up and she's getting pissy about it. not even getting lowball offers or anything.

 

i also ask myself how much more upward movement can there be with these low and mid grade books.

[namralos]

Hmm...CGC or CGG/PGA/PGX?

My choice is...RAW!

 

I don't care whether you put it in a plastic container or not. I trust no dealer(s) to grade a comic book for me. If someone grades a book at VF, but I think it's a F+, then it's a F+ when or if I buy it, and I'll pay no more than the F+ price. I'm also highly skeptical of anyone who believes that a comic book can rate a 10. Show me ANY book, and I'll find something wrong with it. "Trust no one."

 

But the big reason for wanting raw books instead of slabbed ones has to do with their purpose. They were meant to be read. I like to read them, hold them, smell them. I can just imagine Joe Simon and Jack Kirby sitting around the table, having just created what would become Captain America #1.

 

Jack: It's a great character, and a great character will always sell.

Joe: The story is different. I think people will like that, too.

Jack: And the art...don't forget the art!

Joe: Hey...maybe some day people will like Captain America so much that they'll slab it in plastic, so no one will EVER read it again!

 

-------------------

Frank

[drbanner]

Hmm...CGC or CGG/PGA/PGX?

My choice is...RAW!

 

I don't care whether you put it in a plastic container or not. I trust no dealer(s) to grade a comic book for me. If someone grades a book at VF, but I think it's a F+, then it's a F+ when or if I buy it, and I'll pay no more than the F+ price. I'm also highly skeptical of anyone who believes that a comic book can rate a 10. Show me ANY book, and I'll find something wrong with it. "Trust no one."

 

But the big reason for wanting raw books instead of slabbed ones has to do with their purpose. They were meant to be read. I like to read them, hold them, smell them. I can just imagine Joe Simon and Jack Kirby sitting around the table, having just created what would become Captain America #1.

 

Jack: It's a great character, and a great character will always sell.

Joe: The story is different. I think people will like that, too.

Jack: And the art...don't forget the art!

Joe: Hey...maybe some day people will like Captain America so much that they'll slab it in plastic, so no one will EVER read it again!

 

-------------------

Frank

 

I'm glad you enjoy reading your comic books and appreciate them in an artistic and literary sense. I must have read thousands of comic books as a young child and have no doubt that both my vocabulary and sense of imagination/adventure were enhanced in elementary and middle school by reading them.

 

These days, I enjoy collecting comic books such as WW-II era Timelys for their historical context, for their rarity (especially in high grade), and basically as antiques. Unfortunately, truly vintage, rare comic books are difficult to find in unrestored condition, and it is even more difficult to find sellers that can actually grade them accurately. Fortunately, CGC provides a service to both buyers and sellers that enable them to buy and sell these antique, collectible treasures with a greater degree of certainty than would otherwise be available.

 

So indeed comic books were meant to be read when originally manufactured, which makes it all the more exciting to find a high-grade, original specimen that has survived the years in tip-top shape. And I sure hope no one will spoil those remaining, pristine specimens by subjecting them to handling wear and potential damage simply to read them, especially since reprints are available for most of the more valuable comic books in circulation.

 

[sfilosa]

I hate when people say comic books were meant to be read. Of course they were, but that's not why collectors pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for them now.

 

Coins were meant to be used to buy other goods (NOT COLLECTED).

 

Stamps were meant to be used to mail goods (NOT COLLECTED).

 

In general, all these items were ORIGINALLY USED for their main purpose, but many years later they have a DIFFERENT INTANGIBLE VALUE.

[precodekeith]

I hate when people say comic books were meant to be read..... that's not why collectors pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for them now....In general, all these items were ORIGINALLY USED for their main purpose, but many years later they have a DIFFERENT INTANGIBLE VALUE.

 

Sfilosa, I agree with you up to a point. I'm all for slabbing a NICE copy of an old comic, whether it be for preservation or restoration check, etc. It makes sense to me.

 

But, people DO still read comics. I know I do, and I've paid hundreds of dollars for a comic that I ended up reading. Being a reader doesn't mean you're not a collector. Yes, these things have an intangible value, but in the case of comics that intangible value (often sentiment) can sometimes be recaptured by rereading a story from years before.

[sfilosa]

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I hate when people say comic books were meant to be read..... that's not why collectors pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for them now....In general, all these items were ORIGINALLY USED for their main purpose, but many years later they have a DIFFERENT INTANGIBLE VALUE.

 

 

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Sfilosa, I agree with you up to a point. I'm all for slabbing a NICE copy of an old comic, whether it be for preservation or restoration check, etc. It makes sense to me.

 

But, people DO still read comics. I know I do, and I've paid hundreds of dollars for a comic that I ended up reading. Being a reader doesn't mean you're not a collector. Yes, these things have an intangible value, but in the case of comics that intangible value (often sentiment) can sometimes be recaptured by rereading a story from years before.

 

Fair enough.

 

I'll clarify. Just because collectors don't want to read the book, doesn't mean, they are getting the FULL USE out of the book. As a high grade collector, I get all the intangible value out of the book by keeping it nice, not by reading it.

 

For those who want to read the book, stiff the pages, whatever, GREAT.

[precodekeith]

I knew we could find an amicable agreement on this!