Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice movie thread for your reading pleasure 2 2

[krighton]

I don't understand all the hate for Superman in this movie. Whether it's how the character was portrayed or how the franchise has been ruined for years to come, there's a lot of criticism about Superman. That's not what I thought when I watched the movie and I didn't leave the cinema thinking "I preferred Batman to Superman". Cavill did a stand up job of portraying Superman, in both MoS and BvS. A modern actor for a modern Superman.

I can`t understand the hate as well. My thinking is Superman became so PC with Lois and Clark and Smallville over the years that this Snyder version of Superman really shocked the critics.

If we think about it. Most of these critics are PC`ers. This Snyder version of Superman was too much for them. Their vision of Superman is Superman rescuing a cat out of a tree.

 

They're the same reviewers that lambast and down vote every movie to below 30% that has a moral slant that disagrees with their own stubborn ideology and yet those non-reviewers who see it without an agenda give it a 90%+

Edited March 27, 2016 by krighton

[rjrjr]

I don't understand all the hate for Superman in this movie. Whether it's how the character was portrayed or how the franchise has been ruined for years to come, there's a lot of criticism about Superman. That's not what I thought when I watched the movie and I didn't leave the cinema thinking "I preferred Batman to Superman". Cavill did a stand up job of portraying Superman, in both MoS and BvS. A modern actor for a modern Superman.

I can`t understand the hate as well. My thinking is Superman became so PC with Lois and Clark and Smallville over the years that this Snyder version of Superman really shocked the critics.

If we think about it. Most of these critics are PC`ers. This Snyder version of Superman was too much for them. Their vision of Superman is Superman rescuing a cat out of a tree.

 

 

I feel this is still that Superman though. This movie basically took that Superman and put him through the ringer. And in the end, he still did the right thing, despite the public criticism, despite his mom's misgivings, and despite Batman's opposition. He still traveled the world saving people. Maybe Snyder could have spent another scene or two on this, but he rescued a girl from a burning building. He rescued astronauts from a failed rocket launch. He still saved Lois as many times as he did in the 1978 movie. It wasn't shown in the movie, but I still see this Superman saving cats from trees.

 

The only thing different, instead of pitting Superman against a campy villain and his bumbling side kick, they pitted him against a devious villain willing to kill a room full of people to try and bring down Superman. A villain who saw an opportunity to twist a cynical Batman against Superman. A villain willing to tamper with Kryptonian science to create a being of immense power to presumably control for his own purposes. In the end, Superman's idealism won out.

Edited March 27, 2016 by rjrjr

[october]

I don't understand all the hate for Superman in this movie. Whether it's how the character was portrayed or how the franchise has been ruined for years to come, there's a lot of criticism about Superman. That's not what I thought when I watched the movie and I didn't leave the cinema thinking "I preferred Batman to Superman". Cavill did a stand up job of portraying Superman, in both MoS and BvS. A modern actor for a modern Superman.

I can`t understand the hate as well. My thinking is Superman became so PC with Lois and Clark and Smallville over the years that this Snyder version of Superman really shocked the critics.

If we think about it. Most of these critics are PC`ers. This Snyder version of Superman was too much for them. Their vision of Superman is Superman rescuing a cat out of a tree.

 

They're the same reviewers that lambast and down vote every movie to below 30% that has a moral slant that disagrees with their own stubborn ideology and yet those non-reviewers who see it without an agenda give it a 90%+

 

I came here for angry fanboy conspiracy theories and I have not been disappointed.

[Bosco685]

SPOILERS

 

Do not watch this video if you want to avoid any surprises being spoiled.

 

 

 

 

- 'It's not 1938' - Perry White's Action Comics #1 reference (I missed that)

 

- Nicholson Terminal - Jack Nicholson recognition

 

- Lex Luthor's prison # (16-TK-421) - Nod to Star Wars

 

 

[revat]

I don't understand all the hate for Superman in this movie. Whether it's how the character was portrayed or how the franchise has been ruined for years to come, there's a lot of criticism about Superman. That's not what I thought when I watched the movie and I didn't leave the cinema thinking "I preferred Batman to Superman". Cavill did a stand up job of portraying Superman, in both MoS and BvS. A modern actor for a modern Superman.

I can`t understand the hate as well. My thinking is Superman became so PC with Lois and Clark and Smallville over the years that this Snyder version of Superman really shocked the critics.

If we think about it. Most of these critics are PC`ers. This Snyder version of Superman was too much for them. Their vision of Superman is Superman rescuing a cat out of a tree.

 

 

I feel this is still that Superman though. This movie basically took that Superman and put him through the ringer. And in the end, he still did the right thing, despite the public criticism, despite his mom's misgivings, and despite Batman's opposition. He still traveled the world saving people. Maybe Snyder could have spent another scene or two on this, but he rescued a girl from a burning building. He rescued astronauts from a failed rocket launch. He still saved Lois as many times as he did in the 1978 movie. It wasn't shown in the movie, but I still see this Superman saving cats from trees.

 

The only thing different, instead of pitting Superman against a campy villain and his bumbling side kick, they pitted him against a devious villain willing to kill a room full of people to try and bring down Superman. A villain who saw an opportunity to twist a cynical Batman against Superman. A villain willing to tamper with Kryptonian science to create a being of immense power to presumably control for his own purposes. In the end, Superman's idealism won out.

 

 

I think is all true, and good points, but doesn't make it a good movie. I liked it, barely more than I didn't, like it, like a 5.5-6 out of ten. Many people site the pacing, editing, excessive dreams, and sound editing, and the fact that the plot was given away in trailers as reasons they didn't enjoy the movie. Additionally, many felt there too many plot holes or didn't like lex (I did like him). Those seem to be very objective reasons that have nothing to do with pc, or not. These are generally things that will affect critics more than fanboys, but are not inconsequential. As for rotten tomatoes, when people give a rating, it's all or nothing, fresh or rotten, no nuance. While I would say fresh, it wouldn't be by much.

[jsilverjanet]

I think Synder failed to show how Luthor orchestrated everything. I followed it but I can see how people weren't able to put things together

 

The point about Superman still doing the right thing despite all of it is a great one. The scene when he goes to see Lois (before the fight) you can tell how torn apart he is.

 

I never understood how people accepted that ending to Superman 1 (reverse the earth)

 

 

 

 

[bane]

 

I never understood how people accepted that ending to Superman 1 (reverse the earth)

 

Superman is a product of its time which has aged badly.

[JayT]

They just don't like a movie, and nobody on the planet DIDN'T think this movie was going to make money and I suspect if you see them in conversations regarding movies they didn't like they are saying box office has nothing to do with quality.

 

This movie is the very definition of critic proof, but I am interested in seeing week 2.

 

Rotten Tomatoes is not a single entity it's an aggregate of many different people. Some are better than others, because many were grandfathered in when RT became big but they are the same people who review positively other films people love. I will agree that maybe people have it in for Snyder in a bit of a way people have for Bay (I don't understand people who go overboard on the criticism of Bay), but that may be a natural human reaction of just not liking a style that a guy kind of never goes away from, for better or worse.

 

At the end I think this movie is a minor miracle in that its not terrible but a lot of its parts are and it's a credit to the actors mostly IMHO who many people doubted. I'd love to know who pushed for Eisenberg, whether he already has a Studio deal in place or if someone championed him because if this character is just average it takes away an obvious part of the movie that doesn't feel right. I think he's a quality actor but his take is very odd.

 

I keep hearing references to issues with the story, which puzzles me since David S. Goyer wrote the story, but also wrote the Christopher Nolan Batman movies and Man of Steel with Nolan. He is quite an accomplished superhero writer. Is the difference in these movies the director or the fact that Nolan wrote the screenplays for the Batman trilogy and Man of Steel, but didn't touch BvsS? Maybe it is time for Snyder to leave the franchise.

 

Two people are credited with writing the movie, Goyer and Terrio. While I guess nobody but those inside know for sure but it seemed like the talk was that the Terrio story is what we got, or at the very least he cleaned a lot up after Goyer (which makes sense since he he also wrote the Justice League movie being shot soon). Terrio was viewed as "Affleck's guy" because Terrio recently won the Oscar on Affleck's Best Picture winning Argo. The word seems to be that Terrio rewrote the Goyer -script which wasn't good and it may account from some of the jumbled or fractured feeling of the movie, though it could also just be bad editing, and, honestly, rewrites or not entirely uncommon but it did seems like, and maybe because how giant this movie was going to be so the coverage was massive, that Terrio changed the story extensively from what Goyer had.

 

As far as the Nolan movies, Goyer has a story credit but he didn't write either Dark Knight of Dark Knight Rises, Christoper and Jonathan Nolan did, he did co-write Batman Begins with Christopher Nolan.

 

I suspect Nolan is the credit there, he's a guy who also wrote Interstellar, The Prestige, and Memento - he's basically his brother's guy. Nolan typically has incredible input in the films he directs regarding story so it's hard for me to see Goyer having significant input. Nolan movies very much tend to be Nolan movies.

 

I don't want to mess on Goyer because Goyer is a very well known writer and probably among the few that people may know his name, and he's been around for awhile on this superhero thing (Blade), but if you look at his career carefully and see his credits, the guy works and co-writes with unique talents - Del Toro, Proyas on Dark City, the Nolans, everything else is kind of mess (though I get down with Death Warrant ). That said, I think Goyer in many ways was a guy comic movies needed because he was current with his dialogue but I think he then didn't evolve himself in later works. And, a credit to him, he's made enough $ by now he can kind of sit backand produce right around the time where he seems to have been passed by, so win-win.

 

It looked like WB/DC really tried to keep him quiet after he said some really dumb stuff, which he habitually seems to do, though i think the Terrio thing is more the -script wasn't looking good and they want to appease Affleck (a good writer himself), not just because he's the DC Golden Boy now as Batman, but you get the feeling they very much want him to direct multiple movies for them - guy is a big get as an upcoming Director.

 

All in on any Affleck directed DC movies.

[JayT]

There's a lot of posts in this thread so sorry if it's been posted but Google has a way to map/street view Batman's house and lair:

 

https://goo.gl/mAaLNG

[Straw-Man]

I don't understand all the hate for Superman in this movie. Whether it's how the character was portrayed or how the franchise has been ruined for years to come, there's a lot of criticism about Superman. That's not what I thought when I watched the movie and I didn't leave the cinema thinking "I preferred Batman to Superman". Cavill did a stand up job of portraying Superman, in both MoS and BvS. A modern actor for a modern Superman.

I can`t understand the hate as well. My thinking is Superman became so PC with Lois and Clark and Smallville over the years that this Snyder version of Superman really shocked the critics.

If we think about it. Most of these critics are PC`ers. This Snyder version of Superman was too much for them. Their vision of Superman is Superman rescuing a cat out of a tree.

 

They're the same reviewers that lambast and down vote every movie to below 30% that has a moral slant that disagrees with their own stubborn ideology and yet those non-reviewers who see it without an agenda give it a 90%+

 

I came here for angry fanboy conspiracy theories and I have not been disappointed.

 

i've been having a blast with them, andy. it's been exponentially more entertaining than the movie.

[jsilverjanet]

There's a lot of posts in this thread so sorry if it's been posted but Google has a way to map/street view Batman's house and lair:

 

https://goo.gl/mAaLNG

 

Pretty cool

 

[Straw-Man]

what would lex have done with doomsday if clark's mom wasn't named martha? hard to find sleep with that kind of quandary just sitting out there.

[jsilverjanet]

I don't understand all the hate for Superman in this movie. Whether it's how the character was portrayed or how the franchise has been ruined for years to come, there's a lot of criticism about Superman. That's not what I thought when I watched the movie and I didn't leave the cinema thinking "I preferred Batman to Superman". Cavill did a stand up job of portraying Superman, in both MoS and BvS. A modern actor for a modern Superman.

I can`t understand the hate as well. My thinking is Superman became so PC with Lois and Clark and Smallville over the years that this Snyder version of Superman really shocked the critics.

If we think about it. Most of these critics are PC`ers. This Snyder version of Superman was too much for them. Their vision of Superman is Superman rescuing a cat out of a tree.

 

They're the same reviewers that lambast and down vote every movie to below 30% that has a moral slant that disagrees with their own stubborn ideology and yet those non-reviewers who see it without an agenda give it a 90%+

 

I came here for angry fanboy conspiracy theories and I have not been disappointed.

 

i've been having a blast with them, andy. it's been exponentially more entertaining than the movie.

 

I don't consider myself a fanboy and I can understand how people cannot like this movie. I just hope if we are judging movies based on content we can do the same with the Marvel ones.

 

Unfortunately those who defend those movies aren't just fanboys but stockholders and speculators

[jsilverjanet]

what would lex have done with doomsday if clark's mom wasn't named martha? hard to find sleep with that kind of quandary just sitting out there.

Excellent post. :thumbsup:

[Straw-Man]

I don't understand all the hate for Superman in this movie. Whether it's how the character was portrayed or how the franchise has been ruined for years to come, there's a lot of criticism about Superman. That's not what I thought when I watched the movie and I didn't leave the cinema thinking "I preferred Batman to Superman". Cavill did a stand up job of portraying Superman, in both MoS and BvS. A modern actor for a modern Superman.

I can`t understand the hate as well. My thinking is Superman became so PC with Lois and Clark and Smallville over the years that this Snyder version of Superman really shocked the critics.

If we think about it. Most of these critics are PC`ers. This Snyder version of Superman was too much for them. Their vision of Superman is Superman rescuing a cat out of a tree.

 

They're the same reviewers that lambast and down vote every movie to below 30% that has a moral slant that disagrees with their own stubborn ideology and yet those non-reviewers who see it without an agenda give it a 90%+

 

I came here for angry fanboy conspiracy theories and I have not been disappointed.

 

i've been having a blast with them, andy. it's been exponentially more entertaining than the movie.

 

I don't consider myself a fanboy and I can understand how people cannot like this movie. I just hope if we are judging movies based on content we can do the same with the Marvel ones.

 

Unfortunately those who defend those movies aren't just fanboys but stockholders and speculators

 

daredevil pretty bad, both ghost rider's wretched, first hulk bad, second one a little better, first two ff's bad, won't watch the new one, elektra abysmal, can't stand wolvy origins. and so forth. bad is bad, regardless of source material, publisher, etc.

[jsilverjanet]

Iron man 2?

Iron man3???

Thor

Avengers age of sleep?

[Gatsby77]

I don't understand all the hate for Superman in this movie. Whether it's how the character was portrayed or how the franchise has been ruined for years to come, there's a lot of criticism about Superman. That's not what I thought when I watched the movie and I didn't leave the cinema thinking "I preferred Batman to Superman". Cavill did a stand up job of portraying Superman, in both MoS and BvS. A modern actor for a modern Superman.

I can`t understand the hate as well. My thinking is Superman became so PC with Lois and Clark and Smallville over the years that this Snyder version of Superman really shocked the critics.

If we think about it. Most of these critics are PC`ers. This Snyder version of Superman was too much for them. Their vision of Superman is Superman rescuing a cat out of a tree.

 

They're the same reviewers that lambast and down vote every movie to below 30% that has a moral slant that disagrees with their own stubborn ideology and yet those non-reviewers who see it without an agenda give it a 90%+

 

I came here for angry fanboy conspiracy theories and I have not been disappointed.

 

i've been having a blast with them, andy. it's been exponentially more entertaining than the movie.

 

I don't consider myself a fanboy and I can understand how people cannot like this movie. I just hope if we are judging movies based on content we can do the same with the Marvel ones.

 

Unfortunately those who defend those movies aren't just fanboys but stockholders and speculators

 

daredevil pretty bad, both ghost rider's wretched, first hulk bad, second one a little better, first two ff's bad, won't watch the new one, elektra abysmal, can't stand wolvy origins. and so forth. bad is bad, regardless of source material, publisher, etc.

 

Exactly. I'd add Thor 2 to the mediocre train too -- only movie since the '90s where I literally fell asleep.

 

And "downvoting anything that has a moral slant that disagrees with their own stubborn ideology?"

 

Puh-lease.

 

Show me how that reconciles with Deadpool, which is about as un-PC and anarchic as it gets, yet got an 84% positive rating from these same critics?

[Straw-Man]

gatsby, I hear you, but please try your best not to post something that would discourage these true believers from telling us how great the movie is. this shiznit is hilarious, and, best of all, FREE!

[JayT]

I don't understand all the hate for Superman in this movie. Whether it's how the character was portrayed or how the franchise has been ruined for years to come, there's a lot of criticism about Superman. That's not what I thought when I watched the movie and I didn't leave the cinema thinking "I preferred Batman to Superman". Cavill did a stand up job of portraying Superman, in both MoS and BvS. A modern actor for a modern Superman.

I can`t understand the hate as well. My thinking is Superman became so PC with Lois and Clark and Smallville over the years that this Snyder version of Superman really shocked the critics.

If we think about it. Most of these critics are PC`ers. This Snyder version of Superman was too much for them. Their vision of Superman is Superman rescuing a cat out of a tree.

 

They're the same reviewers that lambast and down vote every movie to below 30% that has a moral slant that disagrees with their own stubborn ideology and yet those non-reviewers who see it without an agenda give it a 90%+

 

I came here for angry fanboy conspiracy theories and I have not been disappointed.

 

i've been having a blast with them, andy. it's been exponentially more entertaining than the movie.

 

I don't consider myself a fanboy and I can understand how people cannot like this movie. I just hope if we are judging movies based on content we can do the same with the Marvel ones.

 

Unfortunately those who defend those movies aren't just fanboys but stockholders and speculators

 

Well, I'm a stockholder but the idea that what I post has any effect on the rise and fall of those stocks or my bottom line is a bit farfetched. DC doing well doesn't hurt my stock at all, in fact a healthy DC cinematic universe making quality movies insures the continuation of the era we are living in at the movies.

 

Marvel movies that I hated: Iron Man 2. Hulk.

 

They did reclaim Hulk in a big way w/ Avengers though, and there was more joy in that than anything I've seen at DC.

 

Most of the others are okay but many do have third act issues, which as I've said before tends to plague a lot of comic book movies, though for the first wave of Marvel films, and this was smart, the third acts tended to be replaced by Avengers for all of them. If you think about Batman V. Superman it kind of would have been a great third act for 3 more stand alone films prior.

 

One's above okay (in whatever degree people want to choose): Avengers, Guardians of the Galaxy, and Winter Soldier. Those are all incredibly satisfying, have their own genres, and just good sits. I know some will put Iron Man ere and it's definitely just under those for me, but that third act is kind of a let down for me

 

 

DO I think there is a significance difference between the "okay" Marvel movies and the Man of Steel and BvS? Not a ton actually BUT the problem is that those are Batman and Superman. Antman, Thor, Iron Man, Cap, Hulk, have really no business being as interesting as Batman and Superman, but they are kind of all the same to me, and Winter Soldier is better than Man of Steel or Batman V. Superman and that should not happen.

 

It's very much like Spidey at Sony, which made good money but it isn't hitting whee it should be. At Marvel or not that's the flag character fir it to be making same ballpark as other character, even a little more, is enough for studios to reboot that franchise. When Spider-Man is being threatened by lesser properties (and we are talking about still the most valuable comic book property in the world if you follow the money, Batman is a distant 2nd) it's both alarming and speaks to the work Marvel has done with, let's be honest, their B-characters. We all grew up and know that Spidey and Wolverine/X-men are really the a-list characters of the last 30 years for them from a publishing standpoint. It got so bad Sony is working with Marvel and Feige now.

 

As we sit here, are we really worried about Dr.Strange or Civil War? Because I'm not , and that's baffling because it's Dr. Strange, that's the earned goodwill Marvel has, which means if they aren't good it's going to be incredibly disappointing. Have people seen the cast of Dr. Strange? It's stacked.

 

 

 

 

[MCMiles]

I think people disparage things that don't cater to their personal expectations, rather than just give an honest evaluation over what the final product is.

 

Word.