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Better Long Term Investment?? BA 12 vs WD 19

Started by TheMightyMidget,

86 posts in this topic

joecgcmaniac

joecgcmaniac

Posted
Posted

Again, where are you getting 75k? Later issues from the same run indicate printings closer to 35-40k. At least when looking at the data I know of.

It's wayyyyy over 100k for B.A. #12. You cannot look at the numbers from the end of the series, that was around the time of the market crashing. #12 came out during the peak of the boom period, and that book was everywhere in quantity. And because it was a "kids" book, there were tons of newsstand versions printed.

Correct... direct editions of #12 would be around 95,000 copies.

Newsstand are not included in that count.

 

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.arts.comics.misc/ua52laz7cdg

 

Using known print runs from Valiant titles at the time, the value of one index point was 5,250 that month.

 

That puts (#5 seller) X-Men #306 at 525,000 copies... and (#129 seller) Batman Adventures #14 at 89,250 copies.

 

Doing a similar calculation for Batman Adventures #15 and #16 results in:

 

BA #15 = 87,000

BA #16 = 83,250

 

So... using these numbers from 1993, it's likely that Batman Adventures #12 sold around 100,000 (most likely in the 92,000 to 96,000 range).

 

These would be direct editions only... and the newsstand numbers would be separate.

 

Additionally, the 95,000 estimate would be first month sales only... and North American sales only.

 

Throw in another 5% to 10% for other markets and re-orders, and you're over 100K for direct editions.

 

where are they all at then, because this book has dried up

 

There are probably tons of them either at, or headed to CGC right now. Then there are probably lots more buried in old forgotten dealer's stock and collections, unbagged and unboarded. There were also quite a few that probably got junked because it was a "kids" book, and people didn't think that it was worth anything. The book had a high print run, but high grade copies aren't going to be as easy to come by as people think.

 

WD #19 will always have a higher percentage of high grade copies relative to the print run than B.A. #12 will. #19 was bought by collectors and bagged/boarded right away. HG copies are easier to come by than HG copies of B.A. #12.

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Shap

Shap

Posted
Posted

My money is on BA 12 and it's not close. As others have stated, it's inevitable that Michonne will likely be killed off at some point, and even if she isn't, Harley Quinn is much more of a recognizable and transcendent character. 9.8 copies of Walking Dead 19 are easily ascertainable and far more plentiful than BA 12. The print run distinction is inconsequential. The Walking Dead show is more popular than it has ever been and likely continues to attract new fans through word of mouth, yet the price point on Walking Dead 19 hasn't really seen much of an uptick in price and/or market value within the past 2 years. I think they're both great books, but in terms of long term investment, I would definitely go with BA 12.

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troywall-migration

troywall-migration

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I wouldn't discount BA12 over WD19 based just on the larger print run.

 

There are a lot of factors to be considered with BA12, first and foremost that it was a kid's book. I was an actual KID in 1993 (ten-year-old) and a big fan of the cartoon. However, I stayed far, far away from "kid comics", especially those based on animated series, and read and collected only the "real DC universe" comics like Batman, Detective Comics, etc. My comics reading buddies functioned the same way.

 

My point there is that many copies of the book likely went unpurchased, pulped, thrown away by non-specialty vendors. Why? Because in 1993 most grocery stores, convenience stores, and even Wal-Marts still carried at least a rack or two of comic books, and all these places tended to carry the "kids comics" like BA. What did such places do with their unsold comics? They darn sure didn't bag and board them and put them in their back stock. lol.

 

Just some food for thought. If 75k is truly an accurate print run figure for BA12, I'm betting only a fraction of that number exists today, and like other posters have noted, much fewer in high grade. Many books were treated poorly during the speculation boom to top everything off. BA certainly wasn't a comic book that was treated "as important" as the then-running mainstream DC universe titles.

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the authority

the authority

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Posted
I wouldn't discount BA12 over WD19 based just on the larger print run.

 

There are a lot of factors to be considered with BA12, first and foremost that it was a kid's book. I was an actual KID in 1993 (ten-year-old) and a big fan of the cartoon. However, I stayed far, far away from "kid comics", especially those based on animated series, and read and collected only the "real DC universe" comics like Batman, Detective Comics, etc. My comics reading buddies functioned the same way.

 

My point there is that many copies of the book likely went unpurchased, pulped, thrown away by non-specialty vendors. Why? Because in 1993 most grocery stores, convenience stores, and even Wal-Marts still carried at least a rack or two of comic books, and all these places tended to carry the "kids comics" like BA. What did such places do with their unsold comics? They darn sure didn't bag and board them and put them in their back stock. lol.

 

Just some food for thought. If 75k is truly an accurate print run figure for BA12, I'm betting only a fraction of that number exists today, and like other posters have noted, much fewer in high grade. Many books were treated poorly during the speculation boom to top everything off. BA certainly wasn't a comic book that was treated "as important" as the then-running mainstream DC universe titles.

 

In 1993 those retail books that were supposed to be destroyed a lot of time weren't and in fact were sold in boxes by the pallet around here up until a few years ago. I know because I used to by them by the pallet. I'm not saying this is what happened to Baa 12 but I know that this happened with lots of cards and comics. 2c

 

I have no read on which of these books will be the better investment. It is impossible to say. I remember the ASM 129 and Hulk 181 debate and both sides had compelling arguements but Wolverine wiped the floor with the Punisher long term.

 

TWD could be done in 20 years or it could be the next Star Trek. Harley Quinn could be a star or people might find that she has limited uses in the future. Only time will tell.

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troywall-migration

troywall-migration

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Harley's overall popularity and certainly her marketability edges out Michonne's. She routinely appears in Bat-related media like the popular Arkham video game series.

 

I think Harley will eventually appear in a Batman film. Her popularity is simply too high and consistent for this not to happen within the next decade. It would really get the fans excited if announced.

 

I think Harley took a hit with the New 52...her look is terrible. I agree that she couldn't maintain the jester's hat and onesie jump suit indefinitely, but man is her New 52 design awful.

 

Harley-related merchandise always sells well. My LCS owner always orders heavy on it.

 

Of course, that's not to say that Michonne-related merchandise is not also currently hot sellers, like statues...

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brendanb438

brendanb438

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Long term neither book is a good investment at $1000, at $750, hell even $450 with what WD #19s seem to go for these days. Still happy as hell to have sold my #19 9.8 at the eBay peak.

 

I see both books worth less 10 years from now than from current highs.

 

 

Now the real investment is to get a certain board member to come off his #19 original artwork cover.

 

:)

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joecgcmaniac

joecgcmaniac

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Long term neither book is a good investment at $1000, at $750, hell even $450 with what WD #19s seem to go for these days. Still happy as hell to have sold my #19 9.8 at the eBay peak.

 

I see both books worth less 10 years from now than from current highs.

 

 

Now the real investment is to get a certain board member to come off his #19 original artwork cover.

 

:)

 

He already did. :baiting:

 

lol

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Jking3437

Jking3437

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I would say neither to tell you the truth and this is coming from a huge wailing dead fan, and I was a big fan of the cartoon in the 90s batman, Harley was in that " hey mister J"

 

I think in a couple of weeks / months there are going to be a ton of BA12 to hit the market, don't see prices going that much higher than now. I think a lot of the people buying this book right now are just in for a quick couple hundred dollar flip.

 

The waking dead is the walking dead, but I can tell you the price I paid for a #19 a year ago. I will not be able to sell it for that price a year later. #19 will always be a key issue.

 

Look at TMNT #1 is a ridiculously priced book, but do you hear of another key issue from that series like say #12 where some new character is introduced and that's a couple hundred dollar book now?

 

If I'm wrong on the TMNT reference please correct me and I will edit the post

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Hekla

Hekla

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Define long term...

 

Rule of 25 long term?

 

Harley's a 20 yo character & Michonne is an 8 yo character. My kids know who Harley Quinn is, but they LOVE TWD. My bet is they will hunt down a WD19 thirteen years from now but probably not BA12 in 5 years

Did your kids pick up on the WD all by themselves or did you have some sort of push there? I'm sure they discovered Harley without your help.

 

They are more influenced from their friends than from me on what to read. TBH, I wasn't happy when I found my oldest was hanging out at Barnes and Noble reading the WD trades - he was 15 at the time & I thought it wasn't age appropriate. FWIW, they were really big fans of the Teen Titans cartoons and anime on Nick when they were younger... I suspect that will be what they will be most nostalgic about when they are a little older.

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James J

James J

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This thread reminds me how lucky I am to be only a collector. I am ready to go down with the ship if need be. Like any good captain would. That is the walking dead ship I'm talking about. Good luck to you investors out there. Anyone know what the HQ OA goes for? BTW I don't even know who HQ is......If WD had super hero's in it I would not be collecting the comic or the OA. But we are all different. But do you guys invest in comic keys that you yourself don't like?

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the authority

the authority

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Posted
This thread reminds me how lucky I am to be only a collector. I am ready to go down with the ship if need be. Like any good captain would. That is the walking dead ship I'm talking about. Good luck to you investors out there. Anyone know what the HQ OA goes for? BTW I don't even know who HQ is......If WD had super hero's in it I would not be collecting the comic or the OA. But we are all different. But do you guys invest in comic keys that you yourself don't like?

 

I wouldn't spend much on anything I don't like. I will buy moderns based on the writer or artist that will sometimes be a dud but overall, I buy what I enjoy. There are books that get hot that I'm not crazy about that I will buy to cash in quickly but they don't happen very often.

 

 

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retrothecollector

retrothecollector

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This thread reminds me how lucky I am to be only a collector. I am ready to go down with the ship if need be. Like any good captain would. That is the walking dead ship I'm talking about. Good luck to you investors out there. Anyone know what the HQ OA goes for? BTW I don't even know who HQ is......If WD had super hero's in it I would not be collecting the comic or the OA. But we are all different. But do you guys invest in comic keys that you yourself don't like?

 

+1 James!! I'll go down with the ship with you. I am saving up for a WD cover, and by God I will own one, yes I will.

 

And no I do not collect any keys that I don't like. I only collect what I like.

 

Take for example ASM #1, it is a huge key, but I would never own it. I don't like the cover and I don't care for FF. Sorry FF fans. lol

 

I would however love to own a AF #15, now that's an even bigger key. And the cover is awesome! But you wanna know what's more awesome than Spiderman & HQ?

 

WALKING DEAD!!!!!!!!

 

edit: Had to add "HQ" since it's a HQ thread. lol

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James J

James J

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Posted
This thread reminds me how lucky I am to be only a collector. I am ready to go down with the ship if need be. Like any good captain would. That is the walking dead ship I'm talking about. Good luck to you investors out there. Anyone know what the HQ OA goes for? BTW I don't even know who HQ is......If WD had super hero's in it I would not be collecting the comic or the OA. But we are all different. But do you guys invest in comic keys that you yourself don't like?

 

+1 James!! I'll go down with the ship with you. I am saving up for a WD cover, and by God I will own one, yes I will.

 

And no I do not collect any keys that I don't like. I only collect what I like.

 

Take for example ASM #1, it is a huge key, but I would never own it. I don't like the cover and I don't care for FF. Sorry FF fans. lol

 

I would however love to own a AF #15, now that's an even bigger key. And the cover is awesome! But you wanna know what's more awesome than Spiderman & HQ?

 

WALKING DEAD!!!!!!!!

 

edit: Had to add "HQ" since it's a HQ thread. lol

 

:banana:

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