Do dealers, or private sellers who are d**k's (w/attitude or price) prevent u...

[robert frey]

i just wanted to mention that i distinctly remember some of the pages from the 1st issue of LOTW being available on the website, including some of the DPS.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Spencer,

 

Your response was hilarious. Thanks for the laughs. The bottom line is as a paying customer I expect consistency in procedures and policies. Your response about Legion of Three Worlds is a flat out lie. I visited your website daily and the entire issue 1 never showed up. The only pages you ever had were up there from that issue were the first 3 pages that didn't contain any Legion characters at all. The saddest thing is I honestly think you believe what you wrote. Also, when a person buys something they expect to receive the items they bought correctly and promptly. In the business world "I'm human," doesn't cut the mustard, at least to me. The bottom line is I wouldn't buy anything from you again even if somebody held a gun to my head.

[kbmcvay]

i just wanted to mention that i distinctly remember some of the pages from the 1st issue of LOTW being available on the website, including some of the DPS.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Spencer,

 

Your response was hilarious. Thanks for the laughs. The bottom line is as a paying customer I expect consistency in procedures and policies. Your response about Legion of Three Worlds is a flat out lie. I visited your website daily and the entire issue 1 never showed up. The only pages you ever had were up there from that issue were the first 3 pages that didn't contain any Legion characters at all. The saddest thing is I honestly think you believe what you wrote. Also, when a person buys something they expect to receive the items they bought correctly and promptly. In the business world "I'm human," doesn't cut the mustard, at least to me. The bottom line is I wouldn't buy anything from you again even if somebody held a gun to my head.

 

Robert,

 

If I am mistaken about that I apologize. Like I said the only pages I remember ever being offered on there were the first 3 and I was on there constantly back then. Also, I believe I ended up buying the Avengers page from you that I bought originally from him but he had already sold it (featured Yellowjacket small on the Quinjet).

[Koa]

Recently I've been trying to buy some art from an artist through his web store which is not accepting payment. I've emailed him at his site and on Caf several times over the course of a few weeks to resolve the issue but the only response I got, was to send questions through his website and not CAF. All other communications have been ignored. I'm not sure how to take that because the artist has active social media presence and it's clear they've received at least one of my emails.

 

This isn't a horror story but i would appreciate some input from fellow collectors as I'm beginning to find the situation rather frustrating. I'm a very big fan of this artist and would like to add their artwork to my collection of a regular basis but considering the 4 figure price tags I'm a little put off by the lack of communication. Any thoughts?

 

 

 

 

[malvin]

it sounds like he doesn't want to sell you the art, or its already sold.

 

You have to really want it to pursue any further, but I don't think there is much else you can do.

 

Malvin

[AKA Rick]

Recently I've been trying to buy some art from an artist through his web store which is not accepting payment. I've emailed him at his site and on Caf several times over the course of a few weeks to resolve the issue but the only response I got, was to send questions through his website and not CAF. All other communications have been ignored. I'm not sure how to take that because the artist has active social media presence and it's clear they've received at least one of my emails.

 

This isn't a horror story but i would appreciate some input from fellow collectors as I'm beginning to find the situation rather frustrating. I'm a very big fan of this artist and would like to add their artwork to my collection of a regular basis but considering the 4 figure price tags I'm a little put off by the lack of communication. Any thoughts?

 

 

 

 

"Abandon Ship!!!"

 

Poor communication is a red flag.

 

I'd advise you not to conduct business with anyone online where they don't communicate and instill confidence in you.

 

What will end up happening is, you'll send payment and you'll end up chasing the piece you'll maybe never receive or feel frustrated seemingly nearly begging and pleading to get (especially these direct from artists transactions since artists are notorious for being creative not business folk, so a bit unorganized, not necessarily crooked)

 

Think of it this way... if it's this difficult now to almost feel like you're begging or pleading a person to take your money as a customer, and they're still ignoring you... once they have your money and you have no leverage or empowerment, how much harder is it and how much less incentive will the artist have to even follow through to send you the art? At four figures you have way more to lose than to gain.

 

The words "artist" and "cash in advance" should never cross paths once you feel there's going to be a lapse in follow-through.

 

It's best to buy direct at conventions if possible at that point or just live with the fact that you don't need to own the art.

 

You can appreciate it from afar, look at the nice digital image or published image while holding onto your cash and spending it elsewhere.

 

Never all in love with an art or artist beyond appreciation of the image, not the person nor the possession (ownership).

[otherworldsj33]

"It's better when people who don't agree don't continue to try." -- THAT is a good advice. I have to remember that line.

 

And...

 

"Abandon Ship!!!"

 

"Poor communication is a red flag.

 

I'd advise you not to conduct business with anyone online where they don't communicate and instill confidence in you.

 

What will end up happening is, you'll send payment and you'll end up chasing the piece you'll maybe never receive or feel frustrated seemingly nearly begging and pleading to get (especially these direct from artists transactions since artists are notorious for being creative not business folk, so a bit unorganized, not necessarily crooked)

 

Think of it this way... if it's this difficult now to almost feel like you're begging or pleading a person to take your money as a customer, and they're still ignoring you... once they have your money and you have no leverage or empowerment, how much harder is it and how much less incentive will the artist have to even follow through to send you the art? At four figures you have way more to lose than to gain."

 

100% in agreement. Long ago, I learned that the hard way.

[Michael (OML)]

I have dealt with Spencer Beck many times and have ALWAYS found him to be honorable and trustworthy. Like all human beings, I wouldn't be surprised if Spencer makes a mistake once in a blue moon BUT I would be shocked if he didn't try to make it right and because that is the Spencer that I know and in this instance, it seems he did.

 

I also know the buyer of the Legion of Three Worlds and I knew that he made a large offer to buy all of the artwork sight unseen as soon as he was able to and that he sure wished he had been able to get all of it.

 

Not every dealer is a great person but in the case of Spencer, I do think he is absolutely one of the GOOD GUYS in this hobby. Just my two cents.

 

 

Yes. There is one dealer I will not do business with anymore. I had a few bad dealings with him. I bought some Coipel Legion art from him and he sent me some, but not all of the pieces I had paid for. On another occasion I bought a Perez Avengers page from him and then after I paid he told me that page was no longer in his collection and it was a mistake, so I picked something else for the same price (I later got the original page I paid for from somebody else). I inquired about some Perez Brave & The Bold pages which hadn't gone on sale on his website yet. He told me he doesn't engage in discussions about art until they are listed on his website. A year or so later when Legion of Three Worlds came out I asked when the pages would go onsale. He said he had sold them all and they would never be listed (since this contradicted what he told me on the Brave & Bold pages I vowed never to do business with him again).

 

Every other dealer I've bought art from has always been a smooth process.

 

Reading your email made it very easy to identify the dealer so I made him aware of your post and asked him if he would be willing to respond. This is what he had to say ...

 

In response to Mr. McVay's post ... I will out myself. He is referring to me ... Spencer Beck / The Artist's Choice.

 

However, Although I do not like to respond to posts on message boards as you can never tell inflection nor can you have a discussion that won't takes hours which I do not have to spare ... every once in a while I see one that makes me laugh and I feel the record needs to be set straight.

I am going to break down his email one point at a time. My response will be in all caps NOT to be Internet yelling, but simply to separate his comments from mine

 

1) Yes. There is one dealer I will not do business with anymore. I had a few bad dealings with him. THAT WOULD BE ME

 

2) I bought some Coipel Legion art from him and he sent me some, but not all of the pieces I had paid for. On another occasion I bought a Perez Avengers page from him and then after I paid he told me that page was no longer in his collection and it was a mistake, ALTHOUGH I HAVE NO RECOLLECTION OF THESE SPECIFIC TRANSACTIONS ... WHAT HE IS SAYING IS THAT I MADE AN ERROR, TWICE. THE REAL QUESTION IS, WAS I NOTIFIED & DID I ATTEMPT TO MAKE IT RIGHT? LAST TIME I CHECKED I WAS HUMAN AND SUBJECT TO MAKING MISTAKES JUST LIKE ANY OTHER HUMAN BEING. THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS ... IF I TRIED TO MAKE IT RIGHT AS BEST AS I COULD, THAT IS WHAT MATTERS MOST. THERE IS NOT A COLLECTOR, DEALER OR PERSON AMONG US THAT HAS NOT MADE AN ERROR AT THEIR JOB ON AT LEAST ONE OR MORE OCCASIONS. ALTHOUGH I AM NOT A RELIGIOUS PERSON, I BELIEVE THERE IS A STATEMENT IN THE BIBLE SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT OF "LET ANY ONE OF YOU WHO IS WITHOUT SIN BE THE FIRST TO THROW A STONE" OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. YES, I MADE AN ERROR. ONE THAT I AM SURE WAS QUITE ANNOYING. I AM HUMAN AND ALL I CAN DO IS MY BEST TO CORRECT IT AS EFFECTIVELY AS I CAN.

SINCE THESE ARE ONE OF A KIND ITEMS, THERE IS NO WAY TO MAKE IT PERFECT. I MUST AT LEAST TRY TO MAKE THE CUSTOMER HAPPY WHICH I AM SURE I DID. I AM SURE I APOLOGIZED. IF I DID NOT, LET ME APOLOGIZE HERE AND NOW ... I AM SORRY IF MY ERROR CAUSED ANY UNDO DISAPPOINTMENT OR HARDSHIP. CLEARLY THAT WAS NEVER MY INTENTION.

 

3) I inquired about some Perez Brave & The Bold pages which hadn't gone on sale on his website yet. He told me he doesn't engage in discussions about art until they are listed on his website. I AM SURE WHAT I SAID IS THAT I DO NOT GIVE OUT PRICES FOR ARTWORK BEFORE I LIST THEM AS THAT IS MY USUAL AND COMMON RESPONSE TO THAT QUESTION. THE ONLY WAY I EVER SELL SOMETHING BEFORE IT IS LISTED IS IF THE POTENTIAL CUSTOMER MAKES THE ARTIST(S) AN OFFER THAT IS SO RIDICULOUS, THAT THE ARTIST SAYS SELL THEM THE DAMN ARTWORK BEFORE HE OR SHE CHANGES THEIR MIND. IN THOSE CASES I DO SELL THE ARTWORK AND WOULD BE A FOOLISH BUSINESS PERSON NOT TO.

 

4) A year or so later when Legion of Three Worlds came out I asked when the pages would go onsale. He said he had sold them all and they would never be listed - I AM SURE THIS IS A MISCOMMUNICATION OF SOME SORT AS THIS IS NOT TRUE AT ALL. EVERY SINGLE PAGE AND THE COVER TO ISSUE ONE WAS LISTED ON THE WEBSITE TO BE SOLD FIRST COME FIRST SERVE. I SOLD ABOUT 8 OR 9 PAGES TO VARIOUS BUYERS BEFORE ONE BUYER CAME IN AND BOUGHT ALL OF THE REST OF THE PAGES AND THE COVER. THIS SAME BUYER CAME BACK TO ME AND MADE ME A RIDICULOUS OFFER, SIGHT UNSEEN, TO BUY ALL OF THE REST OF THE ARTWORK ( ANY COVERS, INTERIORS AND/OR PROMOTIONAL ARTWORK ) AND OFFERED TO PREPAY FOR ALL OF IT EVEN BEFORE IT WAS DRAWN. AS A REPRESENTATIVE OF THE ARTIST AND AS A BUSINESSMAN ... AM I SUPPOSED TO TURN DOWN A GUARANTEED, NO CHANCE OF LOSING OFFER OF RIDICULOUS PROPORTION SO THAT MAYBE I MIGHT BE ABLE TO SELL MOST OR ALL OF THE REST OF THE PAGES ONE PAGE AT A TIME FOR NOT FOR AS MUCH MONEY AS I WAS OFFERED? I WOULD HAVE BEEN REMISS IN MY REPRESENTATION OF MR. PEREZ IF I DID NOT ACCEPT SUCH A LARGE OFFER WITH THE PREPAYMENT GUARANTEES.

 

I HOPE THIS CLEARS THINGS UP A BIT.

I AM NOT THE MONSTER I AM ALWAYS MADE OUT TO BE.

I WOULD NOT BE IN BUSINESS FOR 27 YEARS WITH THE LARGEST CLIENT BASE IN THE INDUSTRY IF I WAS.

AS THE OLD SAYING GOES, THERE ARE THREE SIDES TO EVERY STORY, YOURS, THEIRS AND THE TRUTH.

 

YES, I ADMIT, I AM NOT PERFECT.

NEVER SAID I WAS.

I HAVE NEVER SEEN PERFECTION, NOR HEARD OF IT.

I GUESS I AM JUST LEFT BEING A FAULTY HUMAN BEING WHO OCCASIONALLY MAKES MISTAKES LIKE EVERYONE ELSE DOES.

 

REGARDLESS OF WHAT RESPONSES THIS POST INCITES, I WILL NOT BE RESPONDING TO ANY OF THEM. SORRY

 

RESPECTFULLY,

Spencer R. Beck

The Artist's Choice

www.theartistschoice.com

[Koa]

Recently I've been trying to buy some art from an artist through his web store which is not accepting payment. I've emailed him at his site and on Caf several times over the course of a few weeks to resolve the issue but the only response I got, was to send questions through his website and not CAF. All other communications have been ignored. I'm not sure how to take that because the artist has active social media presence and it's clear they've received at least one of my emails.

 

This isn't a horror story but i would appreciate some input from fellow collectors as I'm beginning to find the situation rather frustrating. I'm a very big fan of this artist and would like to add their artwork to my collection of a regular basis but considering the 4 figure price tags I'm a little put off by the lack of communication. Any thoughts?

 

 

 

 

"Abandon Ship!!!"

 

Poor communication is a red flag.

 

I'd advise you not to conduct business with anyone online where they don't communicate and instill confidence in you.

 

What will end up happening is, you'll send payment and you'll end up chasing the piece you'll maybe never receive or feel frustrated seemingly nearly begging and pleading to get (especially these direct from artists transactions since artists are notorious for being creative not business folk, so a bit unorganized, not necessarily crooked)

 

Think of it this way... if it's this difficult now to almost feel like you're begging or pleading a person to take your money as a customer, and they're still ignoring you... once they have your money and you have no leverage or empowerment, how much harder is it and how much less incentive will the artist have to even follow through to send you the art? At four figures you have way more to lose than to gain.

 

The words "artist" and "cash in advance" should never cross paths once you feel there's going to be a lapse in follow-through.

 

It's best to buy direct at conventions if possible at that point or just live with the fact that you don't need to own the art.

 

You can appreciate it from afar, look at the nice digital image or published image while holding onto your cash and spending it elsewhere.

 

Never all in love with an art or artist beyond appreciation of the image, not the person nor the possession (ownership).

 

I didn't think of it in those terms but you're right and now I'm a little more than upset. This kills me because not only is this guy in my top 5 all time favorites nostalgia-wise he's probably the artist whose current work I'd most like to collect on a regular basis but I think it's best to appreciate it from afar. Thanks for providing a logical assessment of the likely pitfalls that may follow.

 

Malvin, it's still for sale online.

 

 

 

[Mighty Hal]

In my limited interactions with Spencer Beck, he's always treated me well. When I did make a purchase, he sold me an X-Factor page I desperately wanted and at a terrific price.

 

"Abandon Ship!!!"

Poor communication is a red flag.

 

This is almost always good advice. However...

 

I really enjoy Ben Roman's artwork from I Luv Halloween. Quite awhile ago, he offered a page on eBay, I won the auction and sent payment...and no response. Weeks passed. Emails were ignored and I got grumpy. Mostly, I was grumpy I wouldn't get the page because this was a gift for my wife, who REALLY loves Roman's work.

 

Finally, he contacts me. There was a family issue, which he shared with me, and he had to leave as the auction was ending. When he returned, he responded to my emails and shipped my page -- and three others, including a splash.

 

In our house, we like B. Roman.

[oceans11]

I have had a negative experience with only one dealer in the short period of time that I've been collecting comic art. First experience was in person at Wondercon in S.F. circa 2010. There he pretty much ignored me when I was looking through the pages at his booth and then came across very standoff-ish when I was asking about some pages. I chalked that up to personality and left it at that.

 

This would have been fine except I had another negative experience with him at the 2011 Wondercon show. I walk up to his table and look through the comic art. The booth wasn't super busy but I wasn't acknowledged by anybody there. Not even eye contact. I'm ok with that mostly as if there was something that I wanted, I'm more than capable of asking. I left and wandered back a bit of time later and looked through some more art pages. I saw some Tom Grummett New Titans pages for sale that aren't super expensive, but I like Grummet's art so I'm interested in them. Once again, the booth isn't busy but the people at the booth are more interested in talking to each other and are content to ignore me. So I walk away, figuring it's just how they are, and I want to go catch a panel that's going to be starting soon. The real kicker comes after the show.

 

I go home and look for the pages on the dealer's website and see that they're not there. So I e-mail him inquiring about them and asking for prices. What I get back is an e-mail of a couple sentences saying that he has the pages but he's going to list them for sale on ebay.

 

So what I got out of those two experiences is that I wasn't considered worthy of buying comic art from him in person, and then he has stuff for sale but would rather sell it at the con or on ebay then selling it directly to a collector.

 

So, while the dealer reps some artist's that I really like (Sam Kieth being one), I won't bother dealing with him at all. ( as evidentially I'm not worthy of buying art from him).

 

As a side note, I ended up buying several pages of New Titans art through Grummet's art rep, Byron, who was more than happy to sell the art to me. I've had deals with many other dealers (Mike Burkey -Romitaman, Anthony Snyder, Mark Hay-Splash Page, Tom Fleming - Fanfare, and Spencer Beck - Artist's Choice, and a few others) who have all been more than happy to sell pages of art to me over time (regardless of price- high or low). I've gone back to all of these dealers and worked multiple deals with them and constantly recommended them to everyone one I know. Conversely I've also told this story about Moy every chance that I've gotten to anyone who would listen (for what it's worth). See how it works?

 

Don

still unsure why ebay was a better option than even quoting me prices on the pages

[Marwai]

Hi Don,

 

I can understand your point of view. I am one of those people in his booth and we're not his salesmen. No one at his booth gets paid money to be at his booth to be salesmen. He'll get us badges, treat us to a meal, we get to look at art that comes in, get autographs from a few artists that stop by, etc. Officially, we're set up, tear down, and security. Being friendly depends on the person and how their convention is going.

 

A lot of collectors who just wish to sit down and talk to each other find their way there because he often has the biggest booth, lots of chairs, and he allows them to sit there because they are loyal customers or friends. etc.

 

I can only guess that he had a lot of Grummett pages at the time (more than what he brought to the con) and didn't want to scan every single one of them to sell one or two pieces. This is because if you've looked through that art, you'll notice that a lot of them have 1 or more vellum for color surprints for a single page which would mean even more scans and explanations on condition. So it was probably better to sell that stuff at cons where the person can hold it in their hands than trying to put it on his website and then have people return the art for not being thorough enough on describing condition.

 

You would think that ebay would be the last place to try to sell these pages, but if you didn't already know, he doesn't write the descriptions himself on those. He can pass the headache of describing this stuff to someone else.

 

If you asked for a specific page and knew what it looked like already, then I would think you would have gotten a different response from him.

 

Marcus

[Superhero]

Albert is the same to everyone. I have been collecting for a long time and know many collectors and dealers. He is rarely friendly and has little in the way of people skills...in fact, he is often flat out rude. BUT, I have done several deals with him over the years and found him to be honest and that he does what he says he is going to do. I have also dealt with several other dealers and I don't have anything bad to say about them. Some dealers reputations proceed them and when a lot of collectors say the same bad things about the same dealers...avoid them *ahem coughDonnellyscough^

 

[Koa]

Hi Don,

 

I can understand your point of view. I am one of those people in his booth and we're not his salesmen. No one at his booth gets paid money to be at his booth to be salesmen. He'll get us badges, treat us to a meal, we get to look at art that comes in, get autographs from a few artists that stop by, etc. Officially, we're set up, tear down, and security. Being friendly depends on the person and how their convention is going.

 

A lot of collectors who just wish to sit down and talk to each other find their way there because he often has the biggest booth, lots of chairs, and he allows them to sit there because they are loyal customers or friends. etc.

 

Marcus

Wow. Wait. here's the thing, if you're helping out with somebody's art booth, lemonade stand or school car wash don't be surprised if people think you're there to actually help out. Albert was kind enough to pay your way into a show, buy you lunch and introduce you to artists for autographs. Maybe point a customer to the person who will take their money? How in hard is it to say "that guy over there will take your money"? seriously.

[Marwai]

We do point him out when asked about something we don't know about. We only see his artwork during the show (3 - 6 days a year) so we are not familiar with all of his inventory and every artist he carries. I'm just saying we are not officially salespeople and are not really employees. All of us can afford to pay our own way and don't need the hassle of helping him if we didn't want to be there. We're helping him because he's a friend and he knows he can trust us to handle $XXXXXXX worth of artwork.

 

Don may have pointed out collector guests who get to sit around and talk to each other inside the booth that have no obligation to do anything. From his post, he did not bother to speak up to ask for help from the group that was talking to each other either. Those people also post here and are usually friendly too.

 

Marcus

 

 

[Terry Doyle]

Personally, if I'm browsing through a dealer's inventory, I prefer to be left alone to peruse. I actually find it very off-putting when I get the, "Can I help you, sir?" approach. If I need assistance, I'll ask.

 

Did one deal with Albert some years back (he traded me a Wally Wood Weird Science cover). When forwarding him my own package of art I did my best to make it tamper-proof (I tend to go a bit over-the-top making parcels secure). When Albert sent me an e-mail confirming receipt, he made a single comment:

 

"You sure like duct tape!"

 

That made me laugh, as he was absolutely spot on!

 

He was more than fair and good to do business with. As such a very positive experience for me. (thumbs u

 

 

[Eric Seffinga]

I got a very similar phonecall from Albert last year, but it was worse because it was a pseudo-crate and he was afraid it wouldn't fit in his SUV.