How do YOU feel about the "price guide" in the OSPG?

[Fan Boy]

Looks like my new year's resolvation will be listed for 2014 ... the first thing is to sign in with GPA! I just found out what GPA is ... wow!

 

(staring at my current guide) Good bye!

 

It's true for years I had long known and suspected that OSPG was lacking something until now. I find it strange why Bob has never took that path to keep up with current times. Was there some kind of reason behind his thoughts that prevents him from that?

[slym2none]

As someone else said here earlier - you do know GPA is for CGC graded books and not raw ones, right?

 

 

 

-slym

[DeliBebek]

As someone else said here earlier - you do know GPA is for CGC graded books and not raw ones, right?

 

-slym

So just subtract the slabbing fees and voila! Your raw price.

[Tony S]

As someone else said here earlier - you do know GPA is for CGC graded books and not raw ones, right?

 

-slym

So just subtract the slabbing fees and voila! Your raw price.

 

GPA is a useful tool. One of several useful tools. But it's not a price guide for raw. Using your suggested approach, then books that sell for about $35 or less have a zero net value.

 

GPA isn't even a price guide for slabs. It records almost exclusively auction sales from the auction sites that have agreed to provide that information. There are auction sites that do not participate. Some of the auction sites that do participate will withhold sales data if the customer requests it. And finally - a lot of sales occur outside of auctions that are not included in GPA's data.

 

GPA's data is also full of - I don't know - call it "anomalies". Take forr instance Incredible Hulk : In 4.0, both the 2012 average selling price and the last 12 month selling price is over $200 higher than the 4.5 average selling price. And this isn't just one sale - there five sales at 4.0 and four at 4.5. Now this is not how it really works and you wouldn't publish a "price guide" reflecting this either. But that's my point. GPA isn't a price guide.

 

A smart dealer/collector uses all the tools available. Sales on eBay, the OSPG, GPA AND your own personal knowledge of the market you are using. Expecting any tool to the only tool you need is - well - just going to lead to disappointment.

[Prince Namor]

I'd like the OSPG more if they'd eliminate the post 1990 books and fix a few of the long time errors. Maybe open the suggestion box to this forum.

It's still a handy reference guide and presents well when buying collections.

[Reader's Copy]

I really don't see much of a point to it anymore. A few things jump out at me that seem to make it less-than-useful:

 

1. Comics don't budge off of their cover price unless they're in lower grade. This is just absurd. LCSs around here typically price this way, it seems like; a book comes off of the shelf, slap a sticker on the bag for 25 cents over cover price for a year or two unless it's hot, then move it to the quarter box (or dollar box; haven't seen a quarter box in an LCS in years). If that book is only moving at a dollar in NM and the OSPG says it's worth the 2.99 it originally sold for, the OSPG is wrong. Things devalue for reasons other than degraded condition, and the price guide doesn't seem to reflect this.

 

2. They still don't list underground comics for some reason.

 

3. Why oh why do they list platinum age and victorian age books? Their presence in the market is minimal and they do not move in enough volume for the price to fluctuate that much, and when they do, it's beyond the ability (seemingly) of the OSPG to keep up with it.

 

4. They continue to list prices for old issues of the OSPG as if they are all that collectible. I wish some of my HC Overstreets from the early 80s could be sold for the price it says they are worth.

 

I use MyComicShop for raw prices, and it works just fine, though it too has the same problem as #1 above (for the most part).

 

And I believe an online version of the OSPG is available, isn't it? You can buy the pdf from one of the auction houses or something, I think. Why they wouldn't take the next step and just make an app or something is beyond me.

[Tony S]

I really don't see much of a point to it anymore. A few things jump out at me that seem to make it less-than-useful:

 

1. Comics don't budge off of their cover price unless they're in lower grade. This is just absurd. LCSs around here typically price this way, it seems like; a book comes off of the shelf, slap a sticker on the bag for 25 cents over cover price for a year or two unless it's hot, then move it to the quarter box (or dollar box; haven't seen a quarter box in an LCS in years). If that book is only moving at a dollar in NM and the OSPG says it's worth the 2.99 it originally sold for, the OSPG is wrong. Things devalue for reasons other than degraded condition, and the price guide doesn't seem to reflect this.

 

You answer your own question. The OSPG used to explain this in the guide under a section called "comics with little value". Checking quickly I don't see it in the current guide, but I might be missing it. Basically it said just what you saying - except that it notes that while the material you describe doesn't sell well, when it sells it sells for cover price or a little more. Because LCS all over the country have it priced at that. As for the dollar bin, it would be hard to judge what goes in - it's basically a clearance rack. Conditions vary, titles/issues vary. I don't know that a price guide in any hobby can keep up with the clearance rack

 

2. They still don't list underground comics for some reason.

Well, they don't. Perhaps they feel they don't have the proper advisers for such, IDK. For that matter , they don't list a lot of sci-fi and horror magazines and Playboys, which would also be useful. Price guide for such exists though, so just go buy one.

Here is one for undergrounds: http://hippycomix.com/home.html

 

3. Why oh why do they list platinum age and victorian age books? Their presence in the market is minimal and they do not move in enough volume for the price to fluctuate that much, and when they do, it's beyond the ability (seemingly) of the OSPG to keep up with it.

I don't think it would make the price guide better to remove stuff. In your point #2, didn't you just say they needed to cover more comic related areas? Just skip over the sections that you don't need to read.

 

4. They continue to list prices for old issues of the OSPG as if they are all that collectible. I wish some of my HC Overstreets from the early 80s could be sold for the price it says they are worth.

Well, they are consistent, anyway. Hasn't the overriding theme to this thread been that common stuff sells for a lot less than what the OSPG lists it at?

 

I use MyComicShop for raw prices, and it works just fine, though it too has the same problem as #1 above (for the most part).

 

And I believe an online version of the OSPG is available, isn't it? You can buy the pdf from one of the auction houses or something, I think. Why they wouldn't take the next step and just make an app or something is beyond me.

 

Amen. Should have been done five years ago. An app, cloud storage of one's collection and/or inventory. So much could be done, so many tools and add on could be created. So much value could be added. Lots of people have suggested it, including people at Gemstone. Maybe someday.

[Bookery]

Over time I've come to realize that with the OPG, their position is a bit complicated. While my biggest criticism is that they won't drop all of the clutter... if a book isn't worth at least $10 in 9.2, it shouldn't be in a collectibles guide... they have a rather impossible task before them due to the nature of many comics collectors.

 

Rightly or wrongly Oversteet set it as his duty to try to maintain market stability and long-term collector interest in the hobby. The problem is, the vast majority of even golden and silver-age issues are truly collected by very few individuals in the overall scheme of things.

 

Many comics maintain a value based simply on it being seen as a bargain compared to Overstreet. I might sell an obscure 1940s humor issue at $10 if OPG says it's worth $20, because a buyer will likley feel, what the heck, if it's half-price, even though it's a goofy issue, how can I go wrong? But if OPG reduces the price to actual selling value of $10, it immediately is now worth only $5 because the book will rarely sell unless it is peceived as a "bargain". Reduce it again, etc., etc.

 

Moreover, as a dealer BUYING collections, it is difficult to buy them at too low a percentage below OPG, because the public sees OPG as definitive... especially non-collectors looking to move estates. Thus the OPG actually creates its own market prices, as dealers are often forced to buy at certain fixed percentages and then retail-price accordingly. Up to a point, OPG is a self-fulfilling prophecy. That has eroded somewhat over the years, of course, but is still a powerful force when dealing with would-be sellers.

 

I laugh when people suggest using eBay, especially for raw books. And the number of raw books I purchase vs. slabbed books per year is about 5,000 to 1. eBay has no meaning since there is no standardized grading, no way of confirming real bids vs. shilled ones, no way to know if buyers even received what was advertised, etc. I can't imagine, either, someone selling me 500 silver-age books in a wide range of conditions, waiting while I check them all out for current values on eBay!

 

GPA, which I subscribe to, is essential for large dealers, but extremely limited. It's great for hot trend books, very high grades, and keys.

 

For example, awhile back I bought a complete run of Top-Notch Comics from the '40s. The highest grades were about 6.0, while most were in a range of 1.0 to 4.0, with some restored books and even a few incompletes. Not a single one of these issues in these grades were well-represented in GPA because collectors simply don't get lower-grade books like these slabbed. Many of the later issues were represented on GPA by only 1 or 2 copies, and these were obviously high-grade pedigrees. Needless to say, the odds of there being recent sales of this sort of material on eBay are also remote.

 

So OPG, combined with lots of experience (so many would-be dealers never understand this) is about the only way to determine value, especially comparatively between issues. It at least gives you a starting point not available in other mediums.

 

 

 

[Fan Boy]

I see... then since I'm not in the business of running a LCS (store) and using GPA with OSPG may or may not help much. That takes too much of time in checking up both while being in the store. I supose one should use as much data possible to the best.

 

Some have mentioned that OSPG often don't list some comic books that should be there. Have seen that happened few times over the years with the guides I had from years past. I have found that there are factors to take in considering - like, region, character, how many copies exist or variant ,,, such as that. I would like see OSPG go a bit better than what it was.

[Jeffro.]

 

I laugh when people suggest using eBay, especially for raw books. And the number of raw books I purchase vs. slabbed books per year is about 5,000 to 1. eBay has no meaning since there is no standardized grading, no way of confirming real bids vs. shilled ones, no way to know if buyers even received what was advertised, etc. I can't imagine, either, someone selling me 500 silver-age books in a wide range of conditions, waiting while I check them all out for current values on eBay!

 

Good points.

[Tony S]

Over time I've come to realize that with the OPG, their position is a bit complicated. While my biggest criticism is that they won't drop all of the clutter... if a book isn't worth at least $10 in 9.2, it shouldn't be in a collectibles guide... they have a rather impossible task before them due to the nature of many comics collectors.

 

Rightly or wrongly Oversteet set it as his duty to try to maintain market stability and long-term collector interest in the hobby. The problem is, the vast majority of even golden and silver-age issues are truly collected by very few individuals in the overall scheme of things.

 

Many comics maintain a value based simply on it being seen as a bargain compared to Overstreet. I might sell an obscure 1940s humor issue at $10 if OPG says it's worth $20, because a buyer will likley feel, what the heck, if it's half-price, even though it's a goofy issue, how can I go wrong? But if OPG reduces the price to actual selling value of $10, it immediately is now worth only $5 because the book will rarely sell unless it is peceived as a "bargain". Reduce it again, etc., etc.

 

Moreover, as a dealer BUYING collections, it is difficult to buy them at too low a percentage below OPG, because the public sees OPG as definitive... especially non-collectors looking to move estates. Thus the OPG actually creates its own market prices, as dealers are often forced to buy at certain fixed percentages and then retail-price accordingly. Up to a point, OPG is a self-fulfilling prophecy. That has eroded somewhat over the years, of course, but is still a powerful force when dealing with would-be sellers.

 

I laugh when people suggest using eBay, especially for raw books. And the number of raw books I purchase vs. slabbed books per year is about 5,000 to 1. eBay has no meaning since there is no standardized grading, no way of confirming real bids vs. shilled ones, no way to know if buyers even received what was advertised, etc. I can't imagine, either, someone selling me 500 silver-age books in a wide range of conditions, waiting while I check them all out for current values on eBay!

 

GPA, which I subscribe to, is essential for large dealers, but extremely limited. It's great for hot trend books, very high grades, and keys.

 

For example, awhile back I bought a complete run of Top-Notch Comics from the '40s. The highest grades were about 6.0, while most were in a range of 1.0 to 4.0, with some restored books and even a few incompletes. Not a single one of these issues in these grades were well-represented in GPA because collectors simply don't get lower-grade books like these slabbed. Many of the later issues were represented on GPA by only 1 or 2 copies, and these were obviously high-grade pedigrees. Needless to say, the odds of there being recent sales of this sort of material on eBay are also remote.

 

So OPG, combined with lots of experience (so many would-be dealers never understand this) is about the only way to determine value, especially comparatively between issues. It at least gives you a starting point not available in other mediums.

 

 

Great post. Thanks

[Bropper]

I agree with your idea of the OSPG sell at 50% or lower than their listed price.

Maybe the OSPG should adjust about 90% of their listings back to about half-price to show what present day market prices really are?

Also

I would state on the first page of OSPG that all 1990 comics and up are worth less then cover price unless noted. So I don't have to hear Craigslist people say but guide says it`s worth at least cover?

An example is I will offer them a dollar, but they will come back and say OSPG says it`s $3.99!

 

Why not price everything from 1980-up at 10 cents a piece? Get rid of all grade prices below NM for moderns because anything less than Mint has little or no value. There might be 1-2% of moderns worth cover price or more. The guide could highlight those exceptions to the 10 cent rule and list at market value. Not that complicated. And it would prevent people from thinking their modern comics are worth serious money. This would also save guide space to highlight golden/silver/bronze books that deserve more recognition.

[Bio-Rupp]

I like #4 there....

 

**********************************

 

[font:Arial Black]GUIDE

[gahyd] Show IPA verb, guid·ed, guid·ing, noun

 

verb (used with object)

1.

to assist (a person) to travel through, or reach a destination in, an unfamiliar area, as by accompanying or giving directions to the person: He guided us through the forest.

 

2.

to accompany (a sightseer) to show points of interest and to explain their meaning or significance.

 

3.

to force (a person, object, or animal) to move in a certain path.

 

4.

to supply (a person) with advice or counsel, as in practical or spiritual affairs.

 

5.

to supervise (someone's actions or affairs) in an advisory capacity

 

6.

a person who guides, especially one hired to guide travelers, tourists, hunters, etc.

 

7.

a mark, tab, or the like, to catch the eye and thus provide quick reference.

 

8.

a guidebook.

 

9.

a book, pamphlet, etc., giving information, instructions, or advice; handbook: an investment guide.

 

10.

a guidepost.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Origin:

1325–75; Middle English giden (v.), gide (noun) < Old French gui ( d ) er (v.), gui ( d ) e (noun) < Germanic; akin to wit2

 

Related forms

guid·a·ble, adjective

 

guide·less, adjective

 

guid·er, noun

 

guid·ing·ly, adverb

 

non·guid·a·ble, adjective

 

Synonyms

1. pilot, steer, escort. Guide, conduct, direct, lead imply showing the way or pointing out or determining the course to be taken. Guide implies continuous presence or agency in showing or indicating a course: to guide a traveler. To conduct is to precede or escort to a place, sometimes with a degree of ceremony: to conduct a guest to his room. To direct is to give information for guidance, or instructions or orders for a course of procedure: to direct someone to the station. To lead is to bring onward in a course, guiding by contact or by going in advance; hence, fig., to influence or induce to some course of conduct: to lead a procession; to lead astray. 5. regulate, manage, govern, rule. 6. pilot, director, conductor. 7. sign, signal, indication, key, clue.

 

 

Antonyms

1. follow.[/font]

[Mister_Comics]

OVERSTREET should STOP calling it a PRICE GUIDE and change it to simply a COMIC CATALOG. It is not a price guide. Take that off the cover and everyone's problem is solved.

 

It's a book about all the comics out there. Nothing more.

 

Yeah! 3000 posts!

[EC ed]

So, all of this discussion leads me to a practical question.

 

In other discussion threads, people here have criticized sellers of slabs (rightly so, in many cases) for posting up "misleading" GPA data in their sales threads ("misleading" GPA data has taken several forms, including simply posting the value of the last recorded sale, etc...).

 

So, in a similar vein, if the majority of people think OSPG isn't accurate, how do we feel about sellers of raw books posting the latest OSPG value as a reference point next to the BIN price? Has it reached a point where doing so could be thought of as "misleading"?

 

Personally, my convention has been to include OSPG along with BIN price for my raw sales threads...I have been doing so in an earnest effort to at least provide some reference point, certainly not to be misleading. Is it better to just not list a reference value from any source for raws...i.e., just list the BIN price, period?

[Dr. Balls]

I have not bought a copy in years. When pricing my stuff I use "sold items" in eBay as a gauge.

 

 

The downside in doing that (for you) is that the Ebay "sold items" listings are chock full of random chance grading. If a book was worth $30 in the OSPG at NM 9.2, there is a definite risk in paying $30 for a VF or VF/NM and then you're hosed - unless you get a deal on it or win it under OSPG.

 

If a person is a solid grader, using OSPG is a great tool to get your money's worth - because it favors accurate grading. Using Ebay is like a shotgun effect: everyone has a different idea of what NM is, and that makes a pretty big difference. You could easily be selling something for less than what it's worth simply because other sellers are overgrading their books or ambiguously describing grading flaws.

 

For example:

 

If a 9.2 NM book on Ebay goes for $20, and it's $30 in OSPG - but the majority of those Ebay books are more like 9.0, then the pricing is accurate - however, your book which is a solid 9.2 is worth the $30 because the others are overgraded, except you just sold it for $20, leaving $10 on the table.

 

It might not work like that every time, but in my experience, it works like that a lot. It's rare that I get a dead-on grade from Ebay, but I always seem to get a good deal on books when I buy, so the overgrading tends to even out.

 

I use OSPG to help discount books when I want to have a sale for slow-moving books. Going at 50% of OSPG is a good motivator, and that's part of the need for the guide as well.

[oakman29]

I feel what I feel,when I feel it.Only to look back and question whether I felt it quite the same way as I have felt it before.and that's how I feel about that.

[Erndog]

I think people continously miss the word "guide" when talking about these sorts of things.

 

They aren't the be all and end all. They aren't the most up-to-the-second references. They are guides. They are a piece of the whole, in helping you determine a price.

 

I don't use the guide so much for pricing as I do for just general key/issue information, but I do like to get a sense of pricing for some issues I don't follow much.

[Dr. Balls]

I feel what I feel,when I feel it.Only to look back and question whether I felt it quite the same way as I have felt it before.and that's how I feel about that.

 

[Designer Toast]

I don't understand how anyone could complain about anything that makes it so easy to get underpriced books all over the country. It's un fathomable. The fact that the OSPG sucks is the greatest thing about it.

 

Yep. Dealers count on the guide to obtain books on the cheap - and who, I ask, sets those prices? The dealers, perhaps...

 

The OSPG doesn't want to come into the digital age. Period. I'm frankly surprised Heritage has worked it out so they can offer the guide in digital format. Bob Overstreet is missing out on a very large revenue stream by not offering an updated version of the guide online.

 

How does one keep track of all those books to reflect current market prices? Oh, I don't know...maybe computers? Algorithms? A little work? Buying access to data, perhaps? There's far too much technology available out there to use the excuse that it would be too much work. GPA seems to not have any trouble doing it.

 

I buy the OSPG every year and while Overstreet badly needs to embrace technology to make itself more viable, I'll continue to buy the guide each year regardless.