How do YOU feel about the "price guide" in the OSPG?

[mackenzie999]

They want quite a bit

 

Maybe it wouldn't be a cash deal. If only Geppi had something to barter that would be of interest to a developer with a deep passion for comics...

[the blob]

So, all of this discussion leads me to a practical question.

 

In other discussion threads, people here have criticized sellers of slabs (rightly so, in many cases) for posting up "misleading" GPA data in their sales threads ("misleading" GPA data has taken several forms, including simply posting the value of the last recorded sale, etc...).

 

So, in a similar vein, if the majority of people think OSPG isn't accurate, how do we feel about sellers of raw books posting the latest OSPG value as a reference point next to the BIN price? Has it reached a point where doing so could be thought of as "misleading"?

 

Personally, my convention has been to include OSPG along with BIN price for my raw sales threads...I have been doing so in an earnest effort to at least provide some reference point, certainly not to be misleading. Is it better to just not list a reference value from any source for raws...i.e., just list the BIN price, period?

 

NO. Your reference to OPG ahould simply be referring to what it lists the book at, not what it is "worth." There's nothing misleading about about a correct reference to the book as there is nothing misleading about stating the last GPA sale of some book was $________ or even that the average of the last 5 sales in 9.8/white pages was $________. Saying that the FMV for a book based on the last sale is perhaps misleading, but averaging values for several sales is what any appraiser does.

[MrBedrock]

They want quite a bit

 

Maybe it wouldn't be a cash deal. If only Geppi had something to barter that would be of interest to a developer with a deep passion for comics...

Geppi and Gemstone don't want to pay a developer, they wants a developer to pay them for the licensing rights to the publication. Then the developer can develop.

[AlexanderM]

In my expeirence the guide overvalues 80% of books, is spot on for 15% and undervalues the 5%.

 

The 5% that are undervalued are generally major keys and hot books.

 

In terms of total value there is probably a balance so that an even $ amount of overvaluing and undervaluing.

[oakman29]

In my expeirence the guide overvalues 80% of books, is spot on for 15% and undervalues the 5%.

 

The 5% that are undervalued are generally major keys and hot books.

 

In terms of total value there is probably a balance so that an even $ amount of overvaluing and undervaluing.

Very interesting. Can you show proof of your hypothesis,or are you blowing those figures out your azz.

[Sqeggs]

Neil, you're not a loser. Knock that crud off.

 

You love comics...that makes you a winner.

 

Peace,

 

Chip

 

+1

[Sqeggs]

Overstreet came out of a very different collecting world. A world where by chatting with a relatively few big dealers, he could come up with reasonably accurate retail prices for what were a fairly limited number of books that were actively collected -- no one much cared what prices he listed for romance, most humor, and most funny animal books because nobody collected them.

 

Right from the beginning, people referred to it as the "Overpriced Guide" because they argued too many prices represented what the dealers he talked to wished they could sell books for rather than what they actually could sell books for. Not entirely a fair criticism, though.

 

I think the guide is still pretty accurate for GA books. Check the prices in recent Heritage auctions and I think you will find that the great majority of them are within 10% of Overstreet. He always said that he didn't think it was the role of the guide to track price increases on hot books -- until the price increases had stood the test of time. This policy is helpful to buyers, I think, by making them think twice about buying books that are currently priced way over guide but that may not be able to sustain those prices. Obviously, that position makes the guide useless for people these days who are looking to flip hot modern books. But who would use an annual guide for that purpose anyway?

 

He was probably too slow to ratchet down prices of mid-grade Marvel SA, most duck books, Classics, and some others that turned out to be very common once eBay started. You could argue that he is still too high on many of those books. As many other people have said, checking eBay, HA's archives, and GPA -- along with Overstreet -- makes sense for sellers trying to determine FMV.

[AGGIEZ]

I like #4 there....

 

**********************************

 

[font:Arial Black]GUIDE

[gahyd] Show IPA verb, guid·ed, guid·ing, noun

 

verb (used with object)

1.

to assist (a person) to travel through, or reach a destination in, an unfamiliar area, as by accompanying or giving directions to the person: He guided us through the forest.

 

2.

to accompany (a sightseer) to show points of interest and to explain their meaning or significance.

 

3.

to force (a person, object, or animal) to move in a certain path.

 

4.

to supply (a person) with advice or counsel, as in practical or spiritual affairs.

 

5.

to supervise (someone's actions or affairs) in an advisory capacity

 

6.

a person who guides, especially one hired to guide travelers, tourists, hunters, etc.

 

7.

a mark, tab, or the like, to catch the eye and thus provide quick reference.

 

8.

a guidebook.

 

9.

a book, pamphlet, etc., giving information, instructions, or advice; handbook: an investment guide.

 

10.

a guidepost.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Origin:

1325–75; Middle English giden (v.), gide (noun) < Old French gui ( d ) er (v.), gui ( d ) e (noun) < Germanic; akin to wit2

 

Related forms

guid·a·ble, adjective

 

guide·less, adjective

 

guid·er, noun

 

guid·ing·ly, adverb

 

non·guid·a·ble, adjective

 

Synonyms

1. pilot, steer, escort. Guide, conduct, direct, lead imply showing the way or pointing out or determining the course to be taken. Guide implies continuous presence or agency in showing or indicating a course: to guide a traveler. To conduct is to precede or escort to a place, sometimes with a degree of ceremony: to conduct a guest to his room. To direct is to give information for guidance, or instructions or orders for a course of procedure: to direct someone to the station. To lead is to bring onward in a course, guiding by contact or by going in advance; hence, fig., to influence or induce to some course of conduct: to lead a procession; to lead astray. 5. regulate, manage, govern, rule. 6. pilot, director, conductor. 7. sign, signal, indication, key, clue.

 

 

Antonyms

1. follow.[/font]

 

 

Rupp, I get what you're saying but this is just silly...

 

All comic books are worth $2.99! Can I publish that and call it a "guide"?

 

There's guidance and then there's crappy information, and OSPG is crappy information.

[the blob]

Right from the beginning, people referred to it as the "Overpriced Guide" because they argued too many prices represented what the dealers he talked to wished they could sell books for rather than what they actually could sell books for. Not entirely a fair criticism, though.

 

-------------------

 

yet many dealers back then charged well over OPG prices. go figure.

[slym2none]

I think people continously miss the word "guide" when talking about these sorts of things.

 

They aren't the be all and end all. They aren't the most up-to-the-second references. They are guides. They are a piece of the whole, in helping you determine a price.

 

I don't use the guide so much for pricing as I do for just general key/issue information, but I do like to get a sense of pricing for some issues I don't follow much.

 

How valuable of a guide is it when 95% of the prices are off by 50% or more?

 

 

 

-slym

[slym2none]

the price guide is worthless.

 

+ 1,000

 

It makes me when people try to defend the OSPG by saying things like, "well, everyone knows that, for this segment of books, you have to multiply Guide by 4x to get to the right price, and for this other segment of books, everyone knows that you have to take 30-50% off of Guide values..." I mean, here's a novel concept: just report the most accurate values possible so people don't have to apply arbitrary multipliers to adjust every inaccurate number in the Guide.

 

Thank you!

 

 

 

-slym

[slym2none]

the price guide is worthless.

 

+ 1,000

 

It makes me when people try to defend the OSPG by saying things like, "well, everyone knows that, for this segment of books, you have multiply Guide by 4x to get to the right price, and for this other segment of books, everyone knows that you have to take 30-50% off of Guide values..." I mean, here's a novel concept: just report the most accurate values possible so people don't have to apply arbitrary multipliers to adjust every inaccurate number in the Guide.

 

So without a baseline, how would you determine the value of a book? By taking in reports from Ebay? Paying someone to comb through sales of the CGC boards? GPA is doing that now, but is missing being able to account for private sales, convention sales and sales in smaller online venues. Nothing can be perfect because full disclosure 100% of the time is not realistic or possible.

 

If you created a new guide that was 30-50% below OSPG, people would be looking for discounts off that guide. To me, OSPG maintains a solid baseline that buyers and sellers can realistically utilze as the name implies (as "guide") and that it applies to a majority of comics books.

 

We aren't looking for another price guide to compete with the OS - it seems we just want OS to have a more accurate PG.

 

 

 

-slym

[Sqeggs]

Right from the beginning, people referred to it as the "Overpriced Guide" because they argued too many prices represented what the dealers he talked to wished they could sell books for rather than what they actually could sell books for. Not entirely a fair criticism, though.

 

-------------------

 

yet many dealers back then charged well over OPG prices. go figure.

 

Especially for books in "strict Mint," which was the equivalent of modern VF, at best.

[Bio-Rupp]

I like #4 there....

 

**********************************

 

[font:Arial Black]GUIDE

[gahyd] Show IPA verb, guid·ed, guid·ing, noun

 

verb (used with object)

1.

to assist (a person) to travel through, or reach a destination in, an unfamiliar area, as by accompanying or giving directions to the person: He guided us through the forest.

 

2.

to accompany (a sightseer) to show points of interest and to explain their meaning or significance.

 

3.

to force (a person, object, or animal) to move in a certain path.

 

4.

to supply (a person) with advice or counsel, as in practical or spiritual affairs.

 

5.

to supervise (someone's actions or affairs) in an advisory capacity

 

6.

a person who guides, especially one hired to guide travelers, tourists, hunters, etc.

 

7.

a mark, tab, or the like, to catch the eye and thus provide quick reference.

 

8.

a guidebook.

 

9.

a book, pamphlet, etc., giving information, instructions, or advice; handbook: an investment guide.

 

10.

a guidepost.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Origin:

1325–75; Middle English giden (v.), gide (noun) < Old French gui ( d ) er (v.), gui ( d ) e (noun) < Germanic; akin to wit2

 

Related forms

guid·a·ble, adjective

 

guide·less, adjective

 

guid·er, noun

 

guid·ing·ly, adverb

 

non·guid·a·ble, adjective

 

Synonyms

1. pilot, steer, escort. Guide, conduct, direct, lead imply showing the way or pointing out or determining the course to be taken. Guide implies continuous presence or agency in showing or indicating a course: to guide a traveler. To conduct is to precede or escort to a place, sometimes with a degree of ceremony: to conduct a guest to his room. To direct is to give information for guidance, or instructions or orders for a course of procedure: to direct someone to the station. To lead is to bring onward in a course, guiding by contact or by going in advance; hence, fig., to influence or induce to some course of conduct: to lead a procession; to lead astray. 5. regulate, manage, govern, rule. 6. pilot, director, conductor. 7. sign, signal, indication, key, clue.

 

 

Antonyms

1. follow.[/font]

 

 

Rupp, I get what you're saying but this is just silly...

 

All comic books are worth $2.99! Can I publish that and call it a "guide"?

 

There's guidance and then there's crappy information, and OSPG is crappy information.

 

Oh I agree with you... the OSPG is definitely behind the times. I just feel that is just ANOTHER source to use when accumulating data.

 

Back in the old days... it was really all we had.

 

I TOTALLY agree that Geppi has dropped the ball on using the internet and searchable sales databases to be the "end all / be all" of comic pricing information. I guess museums with oodles of Archie art that he didn't want to pay for and baseball teams are how he wants to waste his change

[dgarthwaite-migration]

Any use the OPG had has been replaced by www.comicspriceguide.com

 

1) It's free (upon registration)

2) It doesn't discriminate. It attempts to be comprehensive and list everything..

3) It is online in a database format.

4) It does have a schedule for periodically updating titles (but they are overwhelmed)

5) They do allow users to submit titles and covers that are missing.

6) They seek advice from the "experts" when it comes to obscure items or rarities.

7) They have amassed a huge gallery of scans so you can see the actual books/versions you are trying to price.

 

My only complaint is that they are overwhelmed because the volume of data to maintain is very large and response time on getting things included can take months.

 

DG

[Hamlet]

Yeah, there are huge numbers of lower-grade books from the late SA and later that are just insanely overpriced in Overstreet.

 

Think about what a VG copy of a late 60s Superboy, Lois Lane, or Jimmy Olsen actually will sell for. They guide for $10-$12 dollars. When was the last time any of them sold for more than $3 ? A third of guide is pretty much full retail on those books. I pull them out of dollar boxes because I can't seem to pass up a 12 cent cover price comic in decent shape for a dollar, but I'm not confident that I could sell them for more. I suspect that my wife will be stuck with them when I keel over.

 

He was probably too slow to ratchet down prices of mid-grade Marvel SA, most duck books, Classics, and some others that turned out to be very common once eBay started. You could argue that he is still too high on many of those books. As many other people have said, checking eBay, HA's archives, and GPA -- along with Overstreet -- makes sense for sellers trying to determine FMV.

[TomG]

Just how are they supposed to keep all of the thousands of comics listed in the guide updated?

What amount of market research would make this possible?

Do they scour ebay for sold listings?

Do they canvass every comic seller in the world?

 

Thank about the enormity of what's being asked here and then ask yourself if it's possible. If you answer yes, then you're wrong

 

 

Ask the boardie that runs Valiantfans.com. His price guide is pulled directly from E-bay, which I think is probably the best "guide" we have out there. That and GPA for slabbed.

 

http://www.valiantfan.com/valiant/guide.asp

 

Greg does an amazing job with Valiantfans.com! He was heavily involved as a resource for Valiant comic data when I previously worked at Gemstone Publishing ten years ago.

 

Realistically there are a number of different markets within the comic book marketplace and they include but are not limited to:

 

-raw

-certified

-bulk/wholesale

-low grade

-high grade

-pedigree

-retail stores

-online businesses

-auction houses (Clink, ComicConnect, eBay, Hakes, Heritage, Pedigree, etc)

 

To accurately evaluate and price comic books all of these need to be factored into a price guide.

 

 

[rjrjr]

Just how are they supposed to keep all of the thousands of comics listed in the guide updated?

What amount of market research would make this possible?

Do they scour ebay for sold listings?

Do they canvass every comic seller in the world?

 

Thank about the enormity of what's being asked here and then ask yourself if it's possible. If you answer yes, then you're wrong

 

 

Ask the boardie that runs Valiantfans.com. His price guide is pulled directly from E-bay, which I think is probably the best "guide" we have out there. That and GPA for slabbed.

 

http://www.valiantfan.com/valiant/guide.asp

 

Greg does an amazing job with Valiantfans.com! He was heavily involved as a resource for Valiant comic data when I previously worked at Gemstone Publishing ten years ago.

 

Realistically there are a number of different markets within the comic book marketplace and they include but are not limited to:

 

-raw

-certified

-bulk/wholesale

-low grade

-high grade

-pedigree

-retail stores

-online businesses

-auction houses (Clink, ComicConnect, eBay, Hakes, Heritage, Pedigree, etc)

 

To accurately evaluate and price comic books all of these need to be factored into a price guide.

 

 

I think E-Bay could create a price guide of their own with a few tweaks to the site.

[dupont2005]

I consider it completely worthless, as well as all other price guides. eBay completed listings is what I use. I don't deal in slabs but if I did I'd use the census as well. Anything written on paper based on anything but auction results I'm not interested in.

[AlexanderM]

In my expeirence the guide overvalues 80% of books, is spot on for 15% and undervalues the 5%.

 

The 5% that are undervalued are generally major keys and hot books.

 

In terms of total value there is probably a balance so that an even $ amount of overvaluing and undervaluing.

Very interesting. Can you show proof of your hypothesis,or are you blowing those figures out your azz.

 

Mostly the latter

 

This is of course just a gut feeling... no hard science...