FOOM #2 – The First Appearance Of Wolverine, In 1973?

[comix4fun]

For generic, we could line up 5 random super-heroes (e.g. Spider-man, Superman, Batman, and so forth) in a police line-up.

 

Then people see the Wolverine name and sketch.

 

Then they pick which super-hero it was the prototype for.

 

I doubt almost anyone would not pick the Marvel Wolverine. If it was truely generic we would expect people to assign it to other super-heroes at random.

 

 

 

How about line it up next to 5 that wear some sort of mask or have gears/machinery in their chest and next to Olson's image and see which one they pick?

 

Like, say...

 

 

 

 

 

Sure.

 

Then add the other information we know.

 

It has the name Wolverine.

 

It came out only months before Hulk 180/1

 

etc.

 

(and add the name of the guy in your pic, and the date it came out too of course)

 

 

If all there is is a name and time frame you don't have the same character. You have a character with the same name.

 

If that character has a face/attributes borrowed from toys of the era and insides taken from comic a character created several years before (from Thor #132 in 1966) and you haven't "created" much of anything new.

 

 

[Ken Aldred]

 

 

 

 

For the record, I concur.

[AlexanderM]

For generic, we could line up 5 random super-heroes (e.g. Spider-man, Superman, Batman, and so forth) in a police line-up.

 

Then people see the Wolverine name and sketch.

 

Then they pick which super-hero it was the prototype for.

 

I doubt almost anyone would not pick the Marvel Wolverine. If it was truely generic we would expect people to assign it to other super-heroes at random.

 

 

 

How about line it up next to 5 that wear some sort of mask or have gears/machinery in their chest and next to Olson's image and see which one they pick?

 

Like, say...

 

 

 

 

 

Sure.

 

Then add the other information we know.

 

It has the name Wolverine.

 

It came out only months before Hulk 180/1

 

etc.

 

(and add the name of the guy in your pic, and the date it came out too of course)

 

 

If all there is is a name and time frame you don't have the same character. You have a character with the same name.

 

If that character has a face/attributes borrowed from toys of the era and insides taken from comic a character created several years before (from Thor #132 in 1966) and you haven't "created" much of anything new.

 

 

Its not the name alone.

 

It is the name

 

The time frame.

 

The costume.

 

The metal (skeleton or whatever)

 

The fact that it was for a Marvel idea competition to make a new super-hero.

 

And so on.

 

All could be explained individually possibly. But in total they would make up a huge co-incidence if truly completely unrelated.

[Logan510]

For generic, we could line up 5 random super-heroes (e.g. Spider-man, Superman, Batman, and so forth) in a police line-up.

 

Then people see the Wolverine name and sketch.

 

Then they pick which super-hero it was the prototype for.

 

I doubt almost anyone would not pick the Marvel Wolverine. If it was truely generic we would expect people to assign it to other super-heroes at random.

 

 

 

How about line it up next to 5 that wear some sort of mask or have gears/machinery in their chest and next to Olson's image and see which one they pick?

 

Like, say...

 

 

 

 

 

Sure.

 

Then add the other information we know.

 

It has the name Wolverine.

 

It came out only months before Hulk 180/1

 

etc.

 

(and add the name of the guy in your pic, and the date it came out too of course)

 

 

If all there is is a name and time frame you don't have the same character. You have a character with the same name.

 

If that character has a face/attributes borrowed from toys of the era and insides taken from comic a character created several years before (from Thor #132 in 1966) and you haven't "created" much of anything new.

 

 

Its not the name alone.

 

It is the name

 

The time frame.

 

The costume.

 

The metal (skeleton or whatever)

 

The fact that it was for a Marvel idea competition to make a new super-hero.

 

And so on.

 

All could be explained individually possibly. But in total they would make up a huge co-incidence if truly completely unrelated.

 

 

[AlexanderM]

And there is no democracy in this issue. If we made a democratic vote 600 years ago whether the earth is flat or round we might have gotten the answer "flat". Democracy is usually an extremely bad way to decide fact.

 

Secondly so many people have a lot invested in Hulk 181.

 

Just for the record I have a high grade 181 myself, and no FOOM, but I am a scientist and it would be too much of a coincidence if the FOOM Wolverine and 180 Wolverine were completely unrelated.

 

Btw I will not keep this discussion because we can expect Hulk 181 investors to first try to argue and then if the arguments are not very strong, to try to ridicule. And I have no stake in this except stating my opinion.

[Ken Aldred]

And there is no democracy in this issue. If we made a democratic vote 600 years ago whether the earth is flat or round we might have gotten the answer "flat". Democracy is usually an extremely bad way to decide fact.

 

A misconception. At that time it was well known that The Earth is spherical.

[Logan510]

And there is no democracy in this issue. If we made a democratic vote 600 years ago whether the earth is flat or round we might have gotten the answer "flat". Democracy is usually an extremely bad way to decide fact.

 

Secondly so many people have a lot invested in Hulk 181.

 

Just for the record I have a high grade 181 myself, and no FOOM, but I am a scientist and it would be too much of a coincidence if the FOOM Wolverine and 180 Wolverine were completely unrelated.

 

Btw I will not keep this discussion because we can expect Hulk 181 investors to first try to argue and then if the arguments are not very strong, to try to ridicule. And I have no stake in this except stating my opinion.

 

 

I don't have a Hulk #181. Is it OK if I ridicule your opinion because I think it's ridiculous? At the MOST, they might have gotten the name and nothing else, though the name is not unique. I would be interested to find out if John Romita based his design on that 12 year olds drawing.

[Speedy-D]

And there is no democracy in this issue. If we made a democratic vote 600 years ago whether the earth is flat or round we might have gotten the answer "flat". Democracy is usually an extremely bad way to decide fact.

 

Secondly so many people have a lot invested in Hulk 181.

 

Just for the record I have a high grade 181 myself, and no FOOM, but I am a scientist and it would be too much of a coincidence if the FOOM Wolverine and 180 Wolverine were completely unrelated.

 

Btw I will not keep this discussion because we can expect Hulk 181 investors to first try to argue and then if the arguments are not very strong, to try to ridicule. And I have no stake in this except stating my opinion.

Even is someone comes out with a photo of Stan Lee, Len Wein, Herb Trimpe and whoever else with evil grins, staring at a projection of Foom 2 and dollar signs in their eyes, it won't affect the value of Hulk 181. Foom is definitely not the first appearance of Wolverine, that's so obvious it needn't be said. It may well be an influence, direct or indirect, and that's super neat, but we needn't worry about a run on The Bank Of IH181.

 

[Speedy-D]

Also, "coincidence" is a regular ol' word. No need to hy-phenate it.

[AlexanderM]

And there is no democracy in this issue. If we made a democratic vote 600 years ago whether the earth is flat or round we might have gotten the answer "flat". Democracy is usually an extremely bad way to decide fact.

 

A misconception. At that time it was well known that The Earth is spherical.

 

Irrelevant to the issue.

 

Add some hundred years, and the point is there.

 

I am sure you know this.

[AlexanderM]

And there is no democracy in this issue. If we made a democratic vote 600 years ago whether the earth is flat or round we might have gotten the answer "flat". Democracy is usually an extremely bad way to decide fact.

 

Secondly so many people have a lot invested in Hulk 181.

 

Just for the record I have a high grade 181 myself, and no FOOM, but I am a scientist and it would be too much of a coincidence if the FOOM Wolverine and 180 Wolverine were completely unrelated.

 

Btw I will not keep this discussion because we can expect Hulk 181 investors to first try to argue and then if the arguments are not very strong, to try to ridicule. And I have no stake in this except stating my opinion.

Even is someone comes out with a photo of Stan Lee, Len Wein, Herb Trimpe and whoever else with evil grins, staring at a projection of Foom 2 and dollar signs in their eyes, it won't affect the value of Hulk 181. Foom is definitely not the first appearance of Wolverine, that's so obvious it needn't be said. It may well be an influence, direct or indirect, and that's super neat, but we needn't worry about a run on The Bank Of IH181.

 

 

I also don't think it will. If anything it almost makes the lore around Wolverine more interesting. And it does not affect 181 whether FOOM or 180 is the first 'cameo' or brief appearance, because the first full appearance is undoubtedly 181.

[comix4fun]

And there is no democracy in this issue. If we made a democratic vote 600 years ago whether the earth is flat or round we might have gotten the answer "flat". Democracy is usually an extremely bad way to decide fact.

 

Secondly so many people have a lot invested in Hulk 181.

 

Just for the record I have a high grade 181 myself, and no FOOM, but I am a scientist and it would be too much of a coincidence if the FOOM Wolverine and 180 Wolverine were completely unrelated.

 

Btw I will not keep this discussion because we can expect Hulk 181 investors to first try to argue and then if the arguments are not very strong, to try to ridicule. And I have no stake in this except stating my opinion.

 

 

I don't have either issue.

 

 

[comix4fun]

I've decided that all animal named characters are mine......

 

Abyssinian

Adelie Penguin

Affenpinscher

Afghan Hound

African Bush Elephant

African Civet

African Clawed Frog

African Forest Elephant

African Palm Civet

African Penguin

African Tree Toad

African Wild Dog

Ainu Dog

Airedale Terrier

Akbash

Akita

Alaskan Malamute

Albatross

Aldabra Giant Tortoise

Alligator

Alpine Dachsbracke

American Bulldog

 

 

And so on....I will draw random, indistinct images of each character and then anytime someone uses the animal name I have commandeered I can POUNCE

 

 

 

[comix4fun]

And there is no democracy in this issue. If we made a democratic vote 600 years ago whether the earth is flat or round we might have gotten the answer "flat". Democracy is usually an extremely bad way to decide fact.

 

Secondly so many people have a lot invested in Hulk 181.

 

Just for the record I have a high grade 181 myself, and no FOOM, but I am a scientist and it would be too much of a coincidence if the FOOM Wolverine and 180 Wolverine were completely unrelated.

 

Btw I will not keep this discussion because we can expect Hulk 181 investors to first try to argue and then if the arguments are not very strong, to try to ridicule. And I have no stake in this except stating my opinion.

Even is someone comes out with a photo of Stan Lee, Len Wein, Herb Trimpe and whoever else with evil grins, staring at a projection of Foom 2 and dollar signs in their eyes, it won't affect the value of Hulk 181. Foom is definitely not the first appearance of Wolverine, that's so obvious it needn't be said. It may well be an influence, direct or indirect, and that's super neat, but we needn't worry about a run on The Bank Of IH181.

 

 

I also don't think it will. If anything it almost makes the lore around Wolverine more interesting. And it does not affect 181 whether FOOM or 180 is the first 'cameo' or brief appearance, because the first full appearance is undoubtedly 181.

 

 

Probably true. I wasn't really looking at it in the context of how it impacts the other books.

 

I just think it's short a few key elements of making a conclusive or even persuasive argument that the current character is taken from that character. So much is different that it's hard to see the dots connecting. That's all. I've dealt with this issue before, in a legal sense, and the lack of actual written narrative explaining what we see in that image actually harms the case FOR it being the same character because it's so open to interpretation by reasonable people.

 

Maybe he wrote something up and submitted it and explains a "healing factor" Or "metal skeleton" and we just haven't seen it. Without that we're left to divine what was meant by those images.

 

The look is borrowed from toys and images that predated it as well which , without further written explanation from the time, leaves us with borrowed images cobbled together without a way to see if this became something else directly.

[bababooey]

And there is no democracy in this issue. If we made a democratic vote 600 years ago whether the earth is flat or round we might have gotten the answer "flat". Democracy is usually an extremely bad way to decide fact.

 

Secondly so many people have a lot invested in Hulk 181.

 

Just for the record I have a high grade 181 myself, and no FOOM, but I am a scientist and it would be too much of a coincidence if the FOOM Wolverine and 180 Wolverine were completely unrelated.

 

Btw I will not keep this discussion because we can expect Hulk 181 investors to first try to argue and then if the arguments are not very strong, to try to ridicule. And I have no stake in this except stating my opinion.

Even is someone comes out with a photo of Stan Lee, Len Wein, Herb Trimpe and whoever else with evil grins, staring at a projection of Foom 2 and dollar signs in their eyes, it won't affect the value of Hulk 181. Foom is definitely not the first appearance of Wolverine, that's so obvious it needn't be said. It may well be an influence, direct or indirect, and that's super neat, but we needn't worry about a run on The Bank Of IH181.

 

 

I also don't think it will. If anything it almost makes the lore around Wolverine more interesting. And it does not affect 181 whether FOOM or 180 is the first 'cameo' or brief appearance, because the first full appearance is undoubtedly 181.

Where you go wrong is when you equate Hulk 180 (the 1st app/cameo that preceded "the book to have") with some vague character sketch by a young fan that appeared in FOOM magazine.

 

I do want someone to create the photo Speedy described...

 

 

[AlexanderM]

And there is no democracy in this issue. If we made a democratic vote 600 years ago whether the earth is flat or round we might have gotten the answer "flat". Democracy is usually an extremely bad way to decide fact.

 

Secondly so many people have a lot invested in Hulk 181.

 

Just for the record I have a high grade 181 myself, and no FOOM, but I am a scientist and it would be too much of a coincidence if the FOOM Wolverine and 180 Wolverine were completely unrelated.

 

Btw I will not keep this discussion because we can expect Hulk 181 investors to first try to argue and then if the arguments are not very strong, to try to ridicule. And I have no stake in this except stating my opinion.

Even is someone comes out with a photo of Stan Lee, Len Wein, Herb Trimpe and whoever else with evil grins, staring at a projection of Foom 2 and dollar signs in their eyes, it won't affect the value of Hulk 181. Foom is definitely not the first appearance of Wolverine, that's so obvious it needn't be said. It may well be an influence, direct or indirect, and that's super neat, but we needn't worry about a run on The Bank Of IH181.

 

 

I also don't think it will. If anything it almost makes the lore around Wolverine more interesting. And it does not affect 181 whether FOOM or 180 is the first 'cameo' or brief appearance, because the first full appearance is undoubtedly 181.

Where you go wrong is when you equate Hulk 180 (the 1st app/cameo that preceded "the book to have") with some vague character sketch by a young fan that appeared in FOOM magazine.

 

I do want someone to create the photo Speedy described...

 

 

I never equated them. Rather I think some of the people so vehemently against FOOM 2 being associated with Wolverine probably equates them.

 

I think the FOOM 2 can be viewed as a prototype for Wolverine.

 

It was probably the initial source of the idea that later turned into the Wolverine we know, but between Olson's raw idea and the 180 Wolverine has gone more thought and effort into the mix. t is even possible that the Marvel people subconsciously used Olson's idea. I doubt it but it is possible. We know that people get ideas all the time that we think are our own while they are really heavily affected by cues in our surroundings. Either way I think the right way to look at it is as a proto type for the later Marvel Wolverine.

[Logan510]

And there is no democracy in this issue. If we made a democratic vote 600 years ago whether the earth is flat or round we might have gotten the answer "flat". Democracy is usually an extremely bad way to decide fact.

 

Secondly so many people have a lot invested in Hulk 181.

 

Just for the record I have a high grade 181 myself, and no FOOM, but I am a scientist and it would be too much of a coincidence if the FOOM Wolverine and 180 Wolverine were completely unrelated.

 

Btw I will not keep this discussion because we can expect Hulk 181 investors to first try to argue and then if the arguments are not very strong, to try to ridicule. And I have no stake in this except stating my opinion.

Even is someone comes out with a photo of Stan Lee, Len Wein, Herb Trimpe and whoever else with evil grins, staring at a projection of Foom 2 and dollar signs in their eyes, it won't affect the value of Hulk 181. Foom is definitely not the first appearance of Wolverine, that's so obvious it needn't be said. It may well be an influence, direct or indirect, and that's super neat, but we needn't worry about a run on The Bank Of IH181.

 

 

I also don't think it will. If anything it almost makes the lore around Wolverine more interesting. And it does not affect 181 whether FOOM or 180 is the first 'cameo' or brief appearance, because the first full appearance is undoubtedly 181.

Where you go wrong is when you equate Hulk 180 (the 1st app/cameo that preceded "the book to have") with some vague character sketch by a young fan that appeared in FOOM magazine.

 

I do want someone to create the photo Speedy described...

 

 

I never equated them. Rather I think some of the people so vehemently against FOOM 2 being associated with Wolverine probably equates them.

 

I think the FOOM 2 can be viewed as a prototype for Wolverine.

 

It was probably the initial source of the idea that later turned into the Wolverine we know, but between Olson's raw idea and the 180 Wolverine has gone more thought and effort into the mix. t is even possible that the Marvel people subconsciously used Olson's idea. I doubt it but it is possible. We know that people get ideas all the time that we think are our own while they are really heavily affected by cues in our surroundings. Either way I think the right way to look at it is as a proto type for the later Marvel Wolverine.

 

A prototype that has nothing in common except the name. Your use of the word "probably" is interesting, considering you probably weren't there and are probably just speculating.

[AlexanderM]

And there is no democracy in this issue. If we made a democratic vote 600 years ago whether the earth is flat or round we might have gotten the answer "flat". Democracy is usually an extremely bad way to decide fact.

 

Secondly so many people have a lot invested in Hulk 181.

 

Just for the record I have a high grade 181 myself, and no FOOM, but I am a scientist and it would be too much of a coincidence if the FOOM Wolverine and 180 Wolverine were completely unrelated.

 

Btw I will not keep this discussion because we can expect Hulk 181 investors to first try to argue and then if the arguments are not very strong, to try to ridicule. And I have no stake in this except stating my opinion.

Even is someone comes out with a photo of Stan Lee, Len Wein, Herb Trimpe and whoever else with evil grins, staring at a projection of Foom 2 and dollar signs in their eyes, it won't affect the value of Hulk 181. Foom is definitely not the first appearance of Wolverine, that's so obvious it needn't be said. It may well be an influence, direct or indirect, and that's super neat, but we needn't worry about a run on The Bank Of IH181.

 

 

I also don't think it will. If anything it almost makes the lore around Wolverine more interesting. And it does not affect 181 whether FOOM or 180 is the first 'cameo' or brief appearance, because the first full appearance is undoubtedly 181.

 

 

Probably true. I wasn't really looking at it in the context of how it impacts the other books.

 

I just think it's short a few key elements of making a conclusive or even persuasive argument that the current character is taken from that character. So much is different that it's hard to see the dots connecting. That's all. I've dealt with this issue before, in a legal sense, and the lack of actual written narrative explaining what we see in that image actually harms the case FOR it being the same character because it's so open to interpretation by reasonable people.

 

Maybe he wrote something up and submitted it and explains a "healing factor" Or "metal skeleton" and we just haven't seen it. Without that we're left to divine what was meant by those images.

 

The look is borrowed from toys and images that predated it as well which , without further written explanation from the time, leaves us with borrowed images cobbled together without a way to see if this became something else directly.

 

Undoubtedly we have people working at Marvel on these boards - here because it's their profession or as collectors. But I am not suggesting that Marvel has any liability in this. I think a certain level of inspiration is fine and even inevitable. Everything comes from somewhere. I am pretty confident Wolverine was inspired by Wolverine... And as a writer I would find it interesting to see which super-heroes fans were looking for and could come up with. Remember that finding super-heroes which resonate with the market is much of the game. Showcase, Brave and the Bold and many more were used to trial Super-hero after Super hero to try to find ones that would appeal to people. So of course asking the market itself (as in this competition) only made sense. Today we would call it market research..

 

I think Wolverine was strongly inspired by Wolverine.

 

But I don't think Marvel has a legal liability. It is not a copy, just a source of inspiration. And Olson knew he would not get money for getting his idea published in the Marvel magazine.

[AlexanderM]

And there is no democracy in this issue. If we made a democratic vote 600 years ago whether the earth is flat or round we might have gotten the answer "flat". Democracy is usually an extremely bad way to decide fact.

 

Secondly so many people have a lot invested in Hulk 181.

 

Just for the record I have a high grade 181 myself, and no FOOM, but I am a scientist and it would be too much of a coincidence if the FOOM Wolverine and 180 Wolverine were completely unrelated.

 

Btw I will not keep this discussion because we can expect Hulk 181 investors to first try to argue and then if the arguments are not very strong, to try to ridicule. And I have no stake in this except stating my opinion.

Even is someone comes out with a photo of Stan Lee, Len Wein, Herb Trimpe and whoever else with evil grins, staring at a projection of Foom 2 and dollar signs in their eyes, it won't affect the value of Hulk 181. Foom is definitely not the first appearance of Wolverine, that's so obvious it needn't be said. It may well be an influence, direct or indirect, and that's super neat, but we needn't worry about a run on The Bank Of IH181.

 

 

I also don't think it will. If anything it almost makes the lore around Wolverine more interesting. And it does not affect 181 whether FOOM or 180 is the first 'cameo' or brief appearance, because the first full appearance is undoubtedly 181.

Where you go wrong is when you equate Hulk 180 (the 1st app/cameo that preceded "the book to have") with some vague character sketch by a young fan that appeared in FOOM magazine.

 

I do want someone to create the photo Speedy described...

 

 

I never equated them. Rather I think some of the people so vehemently against FOOM 2 being associated with Wolverine probably equates them.

 

I think the FOOM 2 can be viewed as a prototype for Wolverine.

 

It was probably the initial source of the idea that later turned into the Wolverine we know, but between Olson's raw idea and the 180 Wolverine has gone more thought and effort into the mix. t is even possible that the Marvel people subconsciously used Olson's idea. I doubt it but it is possible. We know that people get ideas all the time that we think are our own while they are really heavily affected by cues in our surroundings. Either way I think the right way to look at it is as a proto type for the later Marvel Wolverine.

 

A prototype that has nothing in common except the name. Your use of the word "probably" is interesting, considering you probably weren't there and are probably just speculating.

 

Of all the years the Wolverine could have come out it came out months apart.

 

The name is the same.

 

The mask is not like Robin's, not like Spiderman's an so on. It is more like ...Wolverine's.

 

And we could keep going. The only common thing is not the name like you claim. There are several similarities. However, one by one they could easily be coincidental. It is the totality that makes that unlikely.

[Logan510]

And there is no democracy in this issue. If we made a democratic vote 600 years ago whether the earth is flat or round we might have gotten the answer "flat". Democracy is usually an extremely bad way to decide fact.

 

Secondly so many people have a lot invested in Hulk 181.

 

Just for the record I have a high grade 181 myself, and no FOOM, but I am a scientist and it would be too much of a coincidence if the FOOM Wolverine and 180 Wolverine were completely unrelated.

 

Btw I will not keep this discussion because we can expect Hulk 181 investors to first try to argue and then if the arguments are not very strong, to try to ridicule. And I have no stake in this except stating my opinion.

Even is someone comes out with a photo of Stan Lee, Len Wein, Herb Trimpe and whoever else with evil grins, staring at a projection of Foom 2 and dollar signs in their eyes, it won't affect the value of Hulk 181. Foom is definitely not the first appearance of Wolverine, that's so obvious it needn't be said. It may well be an influence, direct or indirect, and that's super neat, but we needn't worry about a run on The Bank Of IH181.

 

 

I also don't think it will. If anything it almost makes the lore around Wolverine more interesting. And it does not affect 181 whether FOOM or 180 is the first 'cameo' or brief appearance, because the first full appearance is undoubtedly 181.

Where you go wrong is when you equate Hulk 180 (the 1st app/cameo that preceded "the book to have") with some vague character sketch by a young fan that appeared in FOOM magazine.

 

I do want someone to create the photo Speedy described...

 

 

I never equated them. Rather I think some of the people so vehemently against FOOM 2 being associated with Wolverine probably equates them.

 

I think the FOOM 2 can be viewed as a prototype for Wolverine.

 

It was probably the initial source of the idea that later turned into the Wolverine we know, but between Olson's raw idea and the 180 Wolverine has gone more thought and effort into the mix. t is even possible that the Marvel people subconsciously used Olson's idea. I doubt it but it is possible. We know that people get ideas all the time that we think are our own while they are really heavily affected by cues in our surroundings. Either way I think the right way to look at it is as a proto type for the later Marvel Wolverine.

 

A prototype that has nothing in common except the name. Your use of the word "probably" is interesting, considering you probably weren't there and are probably just speculating.

 

Of all the years the Wolverine could have come out it came out months apart.

 

The name is the same.

 

The mask is not like Robin's, not like Spiderman's an so on. It is more like ...Wolverine's.

 

And we could keep going. The only common thing is not the name like you claim. There are several similarities. However, one by one they could easily be coincidental. It is the totality that makes that unlikely.

 

What are these other similarities you keep mentioning? Either I'm blind, or you're jumping through crazy hoops to make your point.

 

How long was Wolverine in development for? We know the lead in time back then for an issue coming out was around 4-6 months.

 

Here's what we know for fact:

 

1) Romita's design looks nothing like that 12 year old boys.

2) No description of the character by the 12 year old boy other than the name.

3) Wolverine was not originally intended to have a metal skeleton, this was not introduced until Claremont had taken over the writing.

 

 

Anything else is just pure speculation. Lucky for you though, all of the creative parties are still alive. I think you should contact them and find out where the idea really came from