FOOM #2 – The First Appearance Of Wolverine, In 1973?

[bababooey]

And there is no democracy in this issue. If we made a democratic vote 600 years ago whether the earth is flat or round we might have gotten the answer "flat". Democracy is usually an extremely bad way to decide fact.

 

Secondly so many people have a lot invested in Hulk 181.

 

Just for the record I have a high grade 181 myself, and no FOOM, but I am a scientist and it would be too much of a coincidence if the FOOM Wolverine and 180 Wolverine were completely unrelated.

 

Btw I will not keep this discussion because we can expect Hulk 181 investors to first try to argue and then if the arguments are not very strong, to try to ridicule. And I have no stake in this except stating my opinion.

Even is someone comes out with a photo of Stan Lee, Len Wein, Herb Trimpe and whoever else with evil grins, staring at a projection of Foom 2 and dollar signs in their eyes, it won't affect the value of Hulk 181. Foom is definitely not the first appearance of Wolverine, that's so obvious it needn't be said. It may well be an influence, direct or indirect, and that's super neat, but we needn't worry about a run on The Bank Of IH181.

 

 

I also don't think it will. If anything it almost makes the lore around Wolverine more interesting. And it does not affect 181 whether FOOM or 180 is the first 'cameo' or brief appearance, because the first full appearance is undoubtedly 181.

Where you go wrong is when you equate Hulk 180 (the 1st app/cameo that preceded "the book to have") with some vague character sketch by a young fan that appeared in FOOM magazine.

 

I do want someone to create the photo Speedy described...

 

 

I never equated them. Rather I think some of the people so vehemently against FOOM 2 being associated with Wolverine probably equates them.

 

I think the FOOM 2 can be viewed as a prototype for Wolverine.

 

It was probably the initial source of the idea that later turned into the Wolverine we know, but between Olson's raw idea and the 180 Wolverine has gone more thought and effort into the mix. t is even possible that the Marvel people subconsciously used Olson's idea. I doubt it but it is possible. We know that people get ideas all the time that we think are our own while they are really heavily affected by cues in our surroundings. Either way I think the right way to look at it is as a proto type for the later Marvel Wolverine.

Well declaring 181 the so strongly and relegating the other two issues to "also ran" status is what I'm reading.

 

[AlexanderM]

And there is no democracy in this issue. If we made a democratic vote 600 years ago whether the earth is flat or round we might have gotten the answer "flat". Democracy is usually an extremely bad way to decide fact.

 

Secondly so many people have a lot invested in Hulk 181.

 

Just for the record I have a high grade 181 myself, and no FOOM, but I am a scientist and it would be too much of a coincidence if the FOOM Wolverine and 180 Wolverine were completely unrelated.

 

Btw I will not keep this discussion because we can expect Hulk 181 investors to first try to argue and then if the arguments are not very strong, to try to ridicule. And I have no stake in this except stating my opinion.

Even is someone comes out with a photo of Stan Lee, Len Wein, Herb Trimpe and whoever else with evil grins, staring at a projection of Foom 2 and dollar signs in their eyes, it won't affect the value of Hulk 181. Foom is definitely not the first appearance of Wolverine, that's so obvious it needn't be said. It may well be an influence, direct or indirect, and that's super neat, but we needn't worry about a run on The Bank Of IH181.

 

 

I also don't think it will. If anything it almost makes the lore around Wolverine more interesting. And it does not affect 181 whether FOOM or 180 is the first 'cameo' or brief appearance, because the first full appearance is undoubtedly 181.

Where you go wrong is when you equate Hulk 180 (the 1st app/cameo that preceded "the book to have") with some vague character sketch by a young fan that appeared in FOOM magazine.

 

I do want someone to create the photo Speedy described...

 

 

I never equated them. Rather I think some of the people so vehemently against FOOM 2 being associated with Wolverine probably equates them.

 

I think the FOOM 2 can be viewed as a prototype for Wolverine.

 

It was probably the initial source of the idea that later turned into the Wolverine we know, but between Olson's raw idea and the 180 Wolverine has gone more thought and effort into the mix. t is even possible that the Marvel people subconsciously used Olson's idea. I doubt it but it is possible. We know that people get ideas all the time that we think are our own while they are really heavily affected by cues in our surroundings. Either way I think the right way to look at it is as a proto type for the later Marvel Wolverine.

 

A prototype that has nothing in common except the name. Your use of the word "probably" is interesting, considering you probably weren't there and are probably just speculating.

 

Of all the years the Wolverine could have come out it came out months apart.

 

The name is the same.

 

The mask is not like Robin's, not like Spiderman's an so on. It is more like ...Wolverine's.

 

And we could keep going. The only common thing is not the name like you claim. There are several similarities. However, one by one they could easily be coincidental. It is the totality that makes that unlikely.

 

What are these other similarities you keep mentioning? Either I'm blind, or you're jumping through crazy hoops to make your point.

 

How long was Wolverine in development for? We know the lead in time back then for an issue coming out was around 4-6 months.

 

Here's what we know for fact:

 

1) Romita's design looks nothing like that 12 year old boys.

2) No description of the character by the 12 year old boy other than the name.

3) Wolverine was not originally intended to have a metal skeleton, this was not introduced until Claremont had taken over the writing.

 

 

Anything else is just pure speculation. Lucky for you though, all of the creative parties are still alive. I think you should contact them and find out where the idea really came from

 

Look, I have absolutely no stake in this.

 

I will still reply but in future posts please keep me out of it. For some reason this FOM 2 things gets some people up in arms. Perhaps owners of 181, perhaps Marvel stakeholders terrified of a lawsuit.. who knows? All I know is that I don't want to be at the middle of this.

 

1. The design. The design of Romita's Wolverine is closer to Olson's than it is to the look of Superman, Spiderman, Cpt Marvel, Iron-man, Hulk, Thing, and most other known super-heroes. It is not identical, but more similar than to most other super-heroes.

 

2. And? It could make Olson's case almost water proof if there was a write-up as well. So it would be nice, but it is not there as far as I know. This is why we can only say that it is a very likely source of inspiration, but we cannot be sure. Unless the write-up exists.

 

3. Maybe so. Where the claws not of metal in 180/181? The way in which Olson's idea found it's way to the final Wolverine is impossible to know. Did many Marvel writers read these fan magazines - and perhaps especially the Super-hero suggestions? That would seem logical for a writer to try to understand the market... but who knows? We cannot know how it happened. All we can do it see that there are some similarities in terms of name, shape (he is not huge like Hulk, Thing etc.), human (he is not an actual Wolverine like Rocket Racoon etc.), an we could keep going with all the other choices they could have taken but each time they took the same or similar choices Olson suggested for a Wolverine character.

 

Finally, you are making a case like a Marvel defense team. I have already said that I don't think Marvel should be liable, and finally I would like to be held outside of future discussion.

 

Let us agree to disagree, and if you feel like posting more about FOOM 2 then please do so in general terms without asking (directly or indirectly) me to comment. I know what I think, but you are welcome to disagree.

[Logan510]

That's some of the most convoluted logic I have ever seen...and I mean ever.

 

 

 

The only scenario I see even possible is maybe, just maybe Roy Thomas saw that issue of FOOM and thought that Wolverine sounded like a cool name.

[Boboset]

The only scenario I see even possible is maybe, just maybe Roy Thomas saw that issue of FOOM and thought that Wolverine sounded like a cool name.

 

And if that did occur, then I believe it was done subconsciously. I don't even buy that scenario. It was only a matter of time before the name Wolverine was used for a comic character.

 

This is silly. No way is this fan art connected to Marvel's Wolverine. It looks like a generic and poorly drawn robot guy. I don't see it. At all.

[AlexanderM]

That's some of the most convoluted logic I have ever seen...and I mean ever.

 

 

 

The only scenario I see even possible is maybe, just maybe Roy Thomas saw that issue of FOOM and thought that Wolverine sounded like a cool name.

 

Sure.

[HarrisonJohn]

And there is no democracy in this issue. If we made a democratic vote 600 years ago whether the earth is flat or round we might have gotten the answer "flat". Democracy is usually an extremely bad way to decide fact.

 

Secondly so many people have a lot invested in Hulk 181.

 

Just for the record I have a high grade 181 myself, and no FOOM, but I am a scientist and it would be too much of a coincidence if the FOOM Wolverine and 180 Wolverine were completely unrelated.

 

Btw I will not keep this discussion because we can expect Hulk 181 investors to first try to argue and then if the arguments are not very strong, to try to ridicule. And I have no stake in this except stating my opinion.

Even is someone comes out with a photo of Stan Lee, Len Wein, Herb Trimpe and whoever else with evil grins, staring at a projection of Foom 2 and dollar signs in their eyes, it won't affect the value of Hulk 181. Foom is definitely not the first appearance of Wolverine, that's so obvious it needn't be said. It may well be an influence, direct or indirect, and that's super neat, but we needn't worry about a run on The Bank Of IH181.

 

 

 

 

3. Maybe so. Where the claws not of metal in 180/181? .

 

I don't think there is any indication in the Hulk issues that Wolverines claw is part of him, or that he can retract it.

[HarrisonJohn]

 

 

 

The only scenario I see even possible is maybe, just maybe Roy Thomas saw that issue of FOOM and thought that Wolverine sounded like a cool name.

 

That's possible but I think it's mostly coincidence. Marvel wanted a Canadian hero so right there Wolverine is going to be on the short list of names to convey that without going to Foom for ideas.

[rjrjr]

And there is no democracy in this issue. If we made a democratic vote 600 years ago whether the earth is flat or round we might have gotten the answer "flat". Democracy is usually an extremely bad way to decide fact.

 

Secondly so many people have a lot invested in Hulk 181.

 

Just for the record I have a high grade 181 myself, and no FOOM, but I am a scientist and it would be too much of a coincidence if the FOOM Wolverine and 180 Wolverine were completely unrelated.

 

Btw I will not keep this discussion because we can expect Hulk 181 investors to first try to argue and then if the arguments are not very strong, to try to ridicule. And I have no stake in this except stating my opinion.

Even is someone comes out with a photo of Stan Lee, Len Wein, Herb Trimpe and whoever else with evil grins, staring at a projection of Foom 2 and dollar signs in their eyes, it won't affect the value of Hulk 181. Foom is definitely not the first appearance of Wolverine, that's so obvious it needn't be said. It may well be an influence, direct or indirect, and that's super neat, but we needn't worry about a run on The Bank Of IH181.

 

 

I also don't think it will. If anything it almost makes the lore around Wolverine more interesting. And it does not affect 181 whether FOOM or 180 is the first 'cameo' or brief appearance, because the first full appearance is undoubtedly 181.

 

 

Probably true. I wasn't really looking at it in the context of how it impacts the other books.

 

I just think it's short a few key elements of making a conclusive or even persuasive argument that the current character is taken from that character. So much is different that it's hard to see the dots connecting. That's all. I've dealt with this issue before, in a legal sense, and the lack of actual written narrative explaining what we see in that image actually harms the case FOR it being the same character because it's so open to interpretation by reasonable people.

 

Maybe he wrote something up and submitted it and explains a "healing factor" Or "metal skeleton" and we just haven't seen it. Without that we're left to divine what was meant by those images.

 

The look is borrowed from toys and images that predated it as well which , without further written explanation from the time, leaves us with borrowed images cobbled together without a way to see if this became something else directly.

 

Undoubtedly we have people working at Marvel on these boards - here because it's their profession or as collectors. But I am not suggesting that Marvel has any liability in this. I think a certain level of inspiration is fine and even inevitable. Everything comes from somewhere. I am pretty confident Wolverine was inspired by Wolverine... And as a writer I would find it interesting to see which super-heroes fans were looking for and could come up with. Remember that finding super-heroes which resonate with the market is much of the game. Showcase, Brave and the Bold and many more were used to trial Super-hero after Super hero to try to find ones that would appeal to people. So of course asking the market itself (as in this competition) only made sense. Today we would call it market research..

 

I think Wolverine was strongly inspired by Wolverine.

 

But I don't think Marvel has a legal liability. It is not a copy, just a source of inspiration. And Olson knew he would not get money for getting his idea published in the Marvel magazine.

 

[Logan510]

And there is no democracy in this issue. If we made a democratic vote 600 years ago whether the earth is flat or round we might have gotten the answer "flat". Democracy is usually an extremely bad way to decide fact.

 

Secondly so many people have a lot invested in Hulk 181.

 

Just for the record I have a high grade 181 myself, and no FOOM, but I am a scientist and it would be too much of a coincidence if the FOOM Wolverine and 180 Wolverine were completely unrelated.

 

Btw I will not keep this discussion because we can expect Hulk 181 investors to first try to argue and then if the arguments are not very strong, to try to ridicule. And I have no stake in this except stating my opinion.

Even is someone comes out with a photo of Stan Lee, Len Wein, Herb Trimpe and whoever else with evil grins, staring at a projection of Foom 2 and dollar signs in their eyes, it won't affect the value of Hulk 181. Foom is definitely not the first appearance of Wolverine, that's so obvious it needn't be said. It may well be an influence, direct or indirect, and that's super neat, but we needn't worry about a run on The Bank Of IH181.

 

 

 

 

3. Maybe so. Where the claws not of metal in 180/181? .

 

I don't think there is any indication in the Hulk issues that Wolverines claw is part of him, or that he can retract it.

 

Len Wein's original intention was that the claws were part of the gloves. Claremont is the one who decided they would be part of the man.

[bababooey]

And there is no democracy in this issue. If we made a democratic vote 600 years ago whether the earth is flat or round we might have gotten the answer "flat". Democracy is usually an extremely bad way to decide fact.

 

Secondly so many people have a lot invested in Hulk 181.

 

Just for the record I have a high grade 181 myself, and no FOOM, but I am a scientist and it would be too much of a coincidence if the FOOM Wolverine and 180 Wolverine were completely unrelated.

 

Btw I will not keep this discussion because we can expect Hulk 181 investors to first try to argue and then if the arguments are not very strong, to try to ridicule. And I have no stake in this except stating my opinion.

Even is someone comes out with a photo of Stan Lee, Len Wein, Herb Trimpe and whoever else with evil grins, staring at a projection of Foom 2 and dollar signs in their eyes, it won't affect the value of Hulk 181. Foom is definitely not the first appearance of Wolverine, that's so obvious it needn't be said. It may well be an influence, direct or indirect, and that's super neat, but we needn't worry about a run on The Bank Of IH181.

 

 

 

 

3. Maybe so. Where the claws not of metal in 180/181? .

 

I don't think there is any indication in the Hulk issues that Wolverines claw is part of him, or that he can retract it.

 

Len Wein's original intention was that the claws were part of the gloves. Claremont is the one who decided they would be part of the man.

Stan & Steve's original intention was that the webbing would come from a web shooter. Sam Raimi is the one who decided that it should come from the man.

 

 

[bababooey]

[Logan510]

And there is no democracy in this issue. If we made a democratic vote 600 years ago whether the earth is flat or round we might have gotten the answer "flat". Democracy is usually an extremely bad way to decide fact.

 

Secondly so many people have a lot invested in Hulk 181.

 

Just for the record I have a high grade 181 myself, and no FOOM, but I am a scientist and it would be too much of a coincidence if the FOOM Wolverine and 180 Wolverine were completely unrelated.

 

Btw I will not keep this discussion because we can expect Hulk 181 investors to first try to argue and then if the arguments are not very strong, to try to ridicule. And I have no stake in this except stating my opinion.

Even is someone comes out with a photo of Stan Lee, Len Wein, Herb Trimpe and whoever else with evil grins, staring at a projection of Foom 2 and dollar signs in their eyes, it won't affect the value of Hulk 181. Foom is definitely not the first appearance of Wolverine, that's so obvious it needn't be said. It may well be an influence, direct or indirect, and that's super neat, but we needn't worry about a run on The Bank Of IH181.

 

 

 

 

3. Maybe so. Where the claws not of metal in 180/181? .

 

I don't think there is any indication in the Hulk issues that Wolverines claw is part of him, or that he can retract it.

 

Len Wein's original intention was that the claws were part of the gloves. Claremont is the one who decided they would be part of the man.

Stan & Steve's original intention was that the webbing would come from a web shooter. Sam Raimi is the one who decided that it should come from the man.

 

 

He probably stole that idea from some 12 year old boy

[*Bronze age fan*]

And there is no democracy in this issue. If we made a democratic vote 600 years ago whether the earth is flat or round we might have gotten the answer "flat". Democracy is usually an extremely bad way to decide fact.

 

Secondly so many people have a lot invested in Hulk 181.

 

Just for the record I have a high grade 181 myself, and no FOOM, but I am a scientist and it would be too much of a coincidence if the FOOM Wolverine and 180 Wolverine were completely unrelated.

 

Btw I will not keep this discussion because we can expect Hulk 181 investors to first try to argue and then if the arguments are not very strong, to try to ridicule. And I have no stake in this except stating my opinion.

Even is someone comes out with a photo of Stan Lee, Len Wein, Herb Trimpe and whoever else with evil grins, staring at a projection of Foom 2 and dollar signs in their eyes, it won't affect the value of Hulk 181. Foom is definitely not the first appearance of Wolverine, that's so obvious it needn't be said. It may well be an influence, direct or indirect, and that's super neat, but we needn't worry about a run on The Bank Of IH181.

 

 

 

 

3. Maybe so. Where the claws not of metal in 180/181? .

 

I don't think there is any indication in the Hulk issues that Wolverines claw is part of him, or that he can retract it.

 

Len Wein's original intention was that the claws were part of the gloves. Claremont is the one who decided they would be part of the man.

Stan & Steve's original intention was that the webbing would come from a web shooter. Sam Raimi is the one who decided that it should come from the man.

 

 

He probably stole that idea from some 12 year old boy

 

 

I am not getting the whole stole from a 12 year old boy idea. The Foom 2 thing was a contest from Marvel to come up with idea for new hero's and villain's. Not getting why it's such a stretch that the name Wolverine was used in this contest before Hulk 180/181.....so why would it not be considered a prototype.

 

I also think it's amazing that Bleeding Cool appear to have tracked down the guy who submitted the idea to Foom 2, 40 years later. And this seems like it occurred because of us talking about it on here. And the price spikes on eBay also seem to begin here.

[slym2none]

And there is no democracy in this issue. If we made a democratic vote 600 years ago whether the earth is flat or round we might have gotten the answer "flat". Democracy is usually an extremely bad way to decide fact.

 

Secondly so many people have a lot invested in Hulk 181.

 

Just for the record I have a high grade 181 myself, and no FOOM, but I am a scientist and it would be too much of a coincidence if the FOOM Wolverine and 180 Wolverine were completely unrelated.

 

Btw I will not keep this discussion because we can expect Hulk 181 investors to first try to argue and then if the arguments are not very strong, to try to ridicule. And I have no stake in this except stating my opinion.

Even is someone comes out with a photo of Stan Lee, Len Wein, Herb Trimpe and whoever else with evil grins, staring at a projection of Foom 2 and dollar signs in their eyes, it won't affect the value of Hulk 181. Foom is definitely not the first appearance of Wolverine, that's so obvious it needn't be said. It may well be an influence, direct or indirect, and that's super neat, but we needn't worry about a run on The Bank Of IH181.

 

 

I also don't think it will. If anything it almost makes the lore around Wolverine more interesting. And it does not affect 181 whether FOOM or 180 is the first 'cameo' or brief appearance, because the first full appearance is undoubtedly 181.

Where you go wrong is when you equate Hulk 180 (the 1st app/cameo that preceded "the book to have") with some vague character sketch by a young fan that appeared in FOOM magazine.

 

I do want someone to create the photo Speedy described...

 

 

I never equated them. Rather I think some of the people so vehemently against FOOM 2 being associated with Wolverine probably equates them.

 

I think the FOOM 2 can be viewed as a prototype for Wolverine.

 

It was probably the initial source of the idea that later turned into the Wolverine we know, but between Olson's raw idea and the 180 Wolverine has gone more thought and effort into the mix. t is even possible that the Marvel people subconsciously used Olson's idea. I doubt it but it is possible. We know that people get ideas all the time that we think are our own while they are really heavily affected by cues in our surroundings. Either way I think the right way to look at it is as a proto type for the later Marvel Wolverine.

 

A prototype that has nothing in common except the name. Your use of the word "probably" is interesting, considering you probably weren't there and are probably just speculating.

 

Of all the years the Wolverine could have come out it came out months apart.

 

The name is the same.

 

The mask is not like Robin's, not like Spiderman's an so on. It is more like ...Wolverine's.

 

And we could keep going. The only common thing is not the name like you claim. There are several similarities. However, one by one they could easily be coincidental. It is the totality that makes that unlikely.

 

What are these other similarities you keep mentioning? Either I'm blind, or you're jumping through crazy hoops to make your point.

 

How long was Wolverine in development for? We know the lead in time back then for an issue coming out was around 4-6 months.

 

Here's what we know for fact:

 

1) Romita's design looks nothing like that 12 year old boys.

2) No description of the character by the 12 year old boy other than the name.

3) Wolverine was not originally intended to have a metal skeleton, this was not introduced until Claremont had taken over the writing.

 

 

Anything else is just pure speculation. Lucky for you though, all of the creative parties are still alive. I think you should contact them and find out where the idea really came from

 

Look, I have absolutely no stake in this.

 

I will still reply but in future posts please keep me out of it. For some reason this FOM 2 things gets some people up in arms. Perhaps owners of 181, perhaps Marvel stakeholders terrified of a lawsuit.. who knows? All I know is that I don't want to be at the middle of this.

 

1. The design. The design of Romita's Wolverine is closer to Olson's than it is to the look of Superman, Spiderman, Cpt Marvel, Iron-man, Hulk, Thing, and most other known super-heroes. It is not identical, but more similar than to most other super-heroes.

 

2. And? It could make Olson's case almost water proof if there was a write-up as well. So it would be nice, but it is not there as far as I know. This is why we can only say that it is a very likely source of inspiration, but we cannot be sure. Unless the write-up exists.

 

3. Maybe so. Where the claws not of metal in 180/181? The way in which Olson's idea found it's way to the final Wolverine is impossible to know. Did many Marvel writers read these fan magazines - and perhaps especially the Super-hero suggestions? That would seem logical for a writer to try to understand the market... but who knows? We cannot know how it happened. All we can do it see that there are some similarities in terms of name, shape (he is not huge like Hulk, Thing etc.), human (he is not an actual Wolverine like Rocket Racoon etc.), an we could keep going with all the other choices they could have taken but each time they took the same or similar choices Olson suggested for a Wolverine character.

 

Finally, you are making a case like a Marvel defense team. I have already said that I don't think Marvel should be liable, and finally I would like to be held outside of future discussion.

 

Let us agree to disagree, and if you feel like posting more about FOOM 2 then please do so in general terms without asking (directly or indirectly) me to comment. I know what I think, but you are welcome to disagree.

 

I have absolutely no dog in this fight other than being a Marvel zombie for years a while back, and I think you are seeing/reading too much into this. Sometimes coincidence is just that - coincidence. I think you are making an insignificant instance swell with meaning that just isn't there.

 

My 2cents , all IMHO of course.

 

 

 

-slym

[slym2none]

And there is no democracy in this issue. If we made a democratic vote 600 years ago whether the earth is flat or round we might have gotten the answer "flat". Democracy is usually an extremely bad way to decide fact.

 

Secondly so many people have a lot invested in Hulk 181.

 

Just for the record I have a high grade 181 myself, and no FOOM, but I am a scientist and it would be too much of a coincidence if the FOOM Wolverine and 180 Wolverine were completely unrelated.

 

Btw I will not keep this discussion because we can expect Hulk 181 investors to first try to argue and then if the arguments are not very strong, to try to ridicule. And I have no stake in this except stating my opinion.

Even is someone comes out with a photo of Stan Lee, Len Wein, Herb Trimpe and whoever else with evil grins, staring at a projection of Foom 2 and dollar signs in their eyes, it won't affect the value of Hulk 181. Foom is definitely not the first appearance of Wolverine, that's so obvious it needn't be said. It may well be an influence, direct or indirect, and that's super neat, but we needn't worry about a run on The Bank Of IH181.

 

 

 

 

3. Maybe so. Where the claws not of metal in 180/181? .

 

I don't think there is any indication in the Hulk issues that Wolverines claw is part of him, or that he can retract it.

 

It has been stated by Len Wein (IIRC) that the claws were supposed to be part of the costume/gloves The Wolverine wore.

 

 

 

-slym

[slym2none]

And there is no democracy in this issue. If we made a democratic vote 600 years ago whether the earth is flat or round we might have gotten the answer "flat". Democracy is usually an extremely bad way to decide fact.

 

Secondly so many people have a lot invested in Hulk 181.

 

Just for the record I have a high grade 181 myself, and no FOOM, but I am a scientist and it would be too much of a coincidence if the FOOM Wolverine and 180 Wolverine were completely unrelated.

 

Btw I will not keep this discussion because we can expect Hulk 181 investors to first try to argue and then if the arguments are not very strong, to try to ridicule. And I have no stake in this except stating my opinion.

Even is someone comes out with a photo of Stan Lee, Len Wein, Herb Trimpe and whoever else with evil grins, staring at a projection of Foom 2 and dollar signs in their eyes, it won't affect the value of Hulk 181. Foom is definitely not the first appearance of Wolverine, that's so obvious it needn't be said. It may well be an influence, direct or indirect, and that's super neat, but we needn't worry about a run on The Bank Of IH181.

 

 

 

 

3. Maybe so. Where the claws not of metal in 180/181? .

 

I don't think there is any indication in the Hulk issues that Wolverines claw is part of him, or that he can retract it.

 

Len Wein's original intention was that the claws were part of the gloves. Claremont is the one who decided they would be part of the man.

Stan & Steve's original intention was that the webbing would come from a web shooter. Sam Raimi is the one who decided that it should come from the man.

 

 

So who do I blame for making Wolverine's claws come out from between his knuckles (and destroying the inside of his arms every time he popped them) instead of over the top of the back of his hands? Who wrote that in the movie??

 

 

 

 

-slym

[bababooey]

I also think it's amazing that Bleeding Cool appear to have tracked down the guy who submitted the idea to Foom 2, 40 years later. And this seems like it occurred because of us talking about it on here. And the price spikes on eBay also seem to begin here.

I think the whole thing originated from BC.

 

Marvel is slipping...they've had 40 years to take this guy down before the "truth" came out...

 

[*Bronze age fan*]

I also think it's amazing that Bleeding Cool appear to have tracked down the guy who submitted the idea to Foom 2, 40 years later. And this seems like it occurred because of us talking about it on here. And the price spikes on eBay also seem to begin here.

I think the whole thing originated from BC.

 

Marvel is slipping...they've had 40 years to take this guy down before the "truth" came out...

 

 

 

Oh ok. I see now that the first bleeding cool write up occurred on the day people began to post about this here. And I thought we were the trend setters here.

 

 

Marvel in an assassination attempt???

[Logan510]

And there is no democracy in this issue. If we made a democratic vote 600 years ago whether the earth is flat or round we might have gotten the answer "flat". Democracy is usually an extremely bad way to decide fact.

 

Secondly so many people have a lot invested in Hulk 181.

 

Just for the record I have a high grade 181 myself, and no FOOM, but I am a scientist and it would be too much of a coincidence if the FOOM Wolverine and 180 Wolverine were completely unrelated.

 

Btw I will not keep this discussion because we can expect Hulk 181 investors to first try to argue and then if the arguments are not very strong, to try to ridicule. And I have no stake in this except stating my opinion.

Even is someone comes out with a photo of Stan Lee, Len Wein, Herb Trimpe and whoever else with evil grins, staring at a projection of Foom 2 and dollar signs in their eyes, it won't affect the value of Hulk 181. Foom is definitely not the first appearance of Wolverine, that's so obvious it needn't be said. It may well be an influence, direct or indirect, and that's super neat, but we needn't worry about a run on The Bank Of IH181.

 

 

 

 

3. Maybe so. Where the claws not of metal in 180/181? .

 

I don't think there is any indication in the Hulk issues that Wolverines claw is part of him, or that he can retract it.

 

Len Wein's original intention was that the claws were part of the gloves. Claremont is the one who decided they would be part of the man.

Stan & Steve's original intention was that the webbing would come from a web shooter. Sam Raimi is the one who decided that it should come from the man.

 

 

So who do I blame for making Wolverine's claws come out from between his knuckles (and destroying the inside of his arms every time he popped them) instead of over the top of the back of his hands? Who wrote that in the movie??

 

 

 

 

-slym

 

Obviously it made it less silly for the general audience...duh.

[AlexanderM]

Let's check the logic here.

 

Which is more illogical?

 

1. Wolverine in FOOM might have been an inspiration to Wolverine a few months later.

 

2. It is impossible (even absurd) that a character named Wolverine in a Marvel publication has inspired a character named Wolverine in a Marvel publication published a few months later.