Gatsby77 Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Balanced review from a different Forbes critic today, titled "Fantastic Four is flawed but acceptable reboot." Among other things he indicates he's a comic reader when he notes he's a fan of the classic issues but understands why Fox went with Ultimate FF. http://www.forbes.com/sites/markhughes/2015/08/07/review-fantastic-four-is-flawed-but-acceptable-reboot/ He also notes that it still could do $90-$100 million domestic + $200-$250 million foreign (and draws similarities to the performance of X-Men: First Class), thus setting up a blockbuster FF sequel (a la X-Men: DOFP). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Namor Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Interesting perspective, but I have some questions.... comics book character popularity works a lot like true "free markets". The winners are winners based on their merits and the choice over decades of what people actually want to buy, read and support. Free markets? Where are the free markets at in this world? Where are the markets where 'winners are winners based on their merits'? Every large market in the world is manipulated by corporations through the government or by the government. It's amazing how many people don't realize you cant just "centrally plan" new versions of characters and expect to have the same success. The same success as what? Do you mean by 'centrally plan', to just generally plan and expect positive results. I agree with that for sure. Being true to the source material isnt just about making fanboys happy. It's bringing to life what has been PROVEN to work. That doesnt preclude new interpretations from being successful, and the more they keep of the original, the more likely that success will follow. Yeah, or at least true to the spirit of the original. Though it's been a long time since the Fantastic Four was successful. How do you account for Ant-Man's success. They really didn't follow much there. Or Guardians of the Galaxy. That wasn't even the original team. Trying to completely redo something in the name of being "modern" or "PC", or any other such silly ideal, is completely ignoring the reality of how something that is popular became popular. Is it? Wasn't the Fantastic Four's sci-fi angle a modern approach at the time? Wasn't Marvel's whole 'Pop Art'/characters with 'real world' problems' an angle that went against the grain of what was considered right for comic books? Were they completely ignoring the reality of how something that is popular became popular or were they just trying to sell comic books? Doesn't sometimes being 'modern' work? Ant-Man was more modern. GOTG was more modern.... And they've been reDO-ing characters long before the term 'PC' ever came about, and doing so with some success. Who was the 2nd Captain Marvel? A black female. 2nd modern Green Lantern? Black Male. SHE-Hulk. Spider-WOMAN. Nick Fury has been accepted to a large degree in the Avengers movie Universe as a black man. Heck, even Lois Lane was black for an issue. Were they trying to be 'modern' or 'PC' 40 years ago, or where they just trying to sell more comic books? I think cocaine is a much greater force on bad decisions in Hollywood, than political philosophies are. The Fantastic Four still being loved after 50 years, validates the source material. While many predicted the outcome of this film based on its abandonment of the source material, many others lived in denial . I think some people here abandoned GOING to the movie based upon them ignoring the source material, but those of us who predicted the outcome of the movie, did so based upon a number of other factors that historically have proven to upend the success of a film. And yeah, there were some people who were in denial for sure... Hopefully the bomb is big enough to land the rights back with Marvel, or at least enough to make Fox bow down and beg for a Sony style saving deal of their characters.... God, I hope so. I'll watch this on netflix, I will not vote with my dollars to support garbage. Totally agree, except I may not even watch it on Netflix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Namor Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 The Duff this year got a 72% Pitch Perfect 2 (a SEQUEL!!!) got 66% I saw these. If I watch FF, I'll let you know which is better. I thought the Duff was hilarious! And hey, I even saw Hot Tub Time Machine 2, so.... Which incidentally has a 14% on RT and is beating FF!!! But there was a scene right before the opening credits that was good, so you should totally go see it, just so you can say you did! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Namor Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Screw Fox, they're not getting a penny out of me. I hope it goes down in flames. Wait, Chuck. So now you're _not_ going to go see this movie?? That is correct. I had a small glimmer of hope that it would be so bad that it would be worth seeing. But... no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VintageComics Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 I guarantee that someone who knows what they are doing could recreate FF #48 - 50 (ala LOTR / Peter Jackson) and have a blockbuster on their hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantastic_four Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Among other things he indicates he's a comic reader when he notes he's a fan of the classic issues but understands why Fox went with Ultimate FF. Sony mostly went with Ultimate Spider-Man in all five films as well, but that didn't result in anything close to this. We didn't notice the changes nearly as much in the Raimi films because everything around those changes in the first two was so good. I was hoping that'd turn out similarly here, but whoa, NOPE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingDonut Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Oh dear. Wesley Morris, Grantland: "When all you ask of a movie is “why?” it means not only are the people responsible not trying to give you something great, they’re not even trying to give you something you can watch. I took a friend to see Fantastic Four, and he threw his arms up enough in disbelief that I was embarrassed to have made him rush uptown from work. My notebook usually remains near my lap, but at this movie, it made involuntary trips over my mouth to cover all of my gasping. The entire experience is shameful — for us, for the filmmakers, for whoever at the studio had the job of creating the ads, in which the cast appear to be starring in hostage posters." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted August 7, 2015 Author Share Posted August 7, 2015 Among other things he indicates he's a comic reader when he notes he's a fan of the classic issues but understands why Fox went with Ultimate FF. Sony mostly went with Ultimate Spider-Man in all five films as well, but that didn't result in anything close to this. We didn't notice the changes nearly as much in the Raimi films because everything around those changes in the first two was so good. I was hoping that'd turn out similarly here, but whoa, NOPE! Feige's favorite comic book movie... Spider-Man 2 That says a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantastic_four Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Among other things he indicates he's a comic reader when he notes he's a fan of the classic issues but understands why Fox went with Ultimate FF. Sony mostly went with Ultimate Spider-Man in all five films as well, but that didn't result in anything close to this. We didn't notice the changes nearly as much in the Raimi films because everything around those changes in the first two was so good. I was hoping that'd turn out similarly here, but whoa, NOPE! Feige's favorite comic book movie... Spider-Man 2 That says a lot. I agree with him entirely if you limit your list to Marvel films as you'd expect him to do. Opening it up, it lands in second to Nolan's masterpiece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Namor Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Balanced review from a different Forbes critic today, titled "Fantastic Four is flawed but acceptable reboot." Among other things he indicates he's a comic reader when he notes he's a fan of the classic issues but understands why Fox went with Ultimate FF. http://www.forbes.com/sites/markhughes/2015/08/07/review-fantastic-four-is-flawed-but-acceptable-reboot/ He also notes that it still could do $90-$100 million domestic + $200-$250 million foreign (and draws similarities to the performance of X-Men: First Class), thus setting up a blockbuster FF sequel (a la X-Men: DOFP). This guy has no clue what he's talking about: "off of its $120 million budget and remarkably restrained marketing that couldn’t have cost more than perhaps $80 million" For one thing, the $120MIL budget was released back in February before the reshoots and has never been updated, and 'remarkably restrained marketing'? Is he kidding? They've gone nuts advertising this thing in the last two months, it's campaign has been massive. He's over hoping on the gross and under evaluating on the cost. Sounds like he belongs in Hollywood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted August 7, 2015 Author Share Posted August 7, 2015 Among other things he indicates he's a comic reader when he notes he's a fan of the classic issues but understands why Fox went with Ultimate FF. Sony mostly went with Ultimate Spider-Man in all five films as well, but that didn't result in anything close to this. We didn't notice the changes nearly as much in the Raimi films because everything around those changes in the first two was so good. I was hoping that'd turn out similarly here, but whoa, NOPE! Feige's favorite comic book movie... Spider-Man 2 That says a lot. I agree with him entirely if you limit your list to Marvel films as you'd expect him to do. Opening it up, it lands in second to Nolan's masterpiece. I like many of them. But I could agree with this. Marvel's Kevin Feige Says Spider-Man 2 Is One Of The Best Superhero Movies Ever Asked about the previous incarnations of the character onscreen and how they might play into Marvel's thinking, Feige responded, “We’re going to have it be its own thing but some of those Spider-Man films… I think Spider-Man 2 is one of the best superhero movies ever, so that’s a lot to live up to.” But I think Feige was talking all movies. Though I could see him forcing his view to Marvel-based to be safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VintageComics Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Balanced review from a different Forbes critic today, titled "Fantastic Four is flawed but acceptable reboot." Among other things he indicates he's a comic reader when he notes he's a fan of the classic issues but understands why Fox went with Ultimate FF. http://www.forbes.com/sites/markhughes/2015/08/07/review-fantastic-four-is-flawed-but-acceptable-reboot/ He also notes that it still could do $90-$100 million domestic + $200-$250 million foreign (and draws similarities to the performance of X-Men: First Class), thus setting up a blockbuster FF sequel (a la X-Men: DOFP). It sounds like most of this is going to weigh on the Asian markets. If the Asian markets read online reviews and base their viewing dollars on that, this franchise is doomed. The only hope they have is for them to ignore the online reviews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr 9.8 Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Balanced review from a different Forbes critic today, titled "Fantastic Four is flawed but acceptable reboot." Among other things he indicates he's a comic reader when he notes he's a fan of the classic issues but understands why Fox went with Ultimate FF. http://www.forbes.com/sites/markhughes/2015/08/07/review-fantastic-four-is-flawed-but-acceptable-reboot/ He also notes that it still could do $90-$100 million domestic + $200-$250 million foreign (and draws similarities to the performance of X-Men: First Class), thus setting up a blockbuster FF sequel (a la X-Men: DOFP). It sounds like most of this is going to weigh on the Asian markets. If the Asian markets read online reviews and base their viewing dollars on that, this franchise is doomed. The only hope they have is for them to ignore the online reviews. How many in the asian markets even pay attention to the critics enough to make a difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted August 7, 2015 Author Share Posted August 7, 2015 Balanced review from a different Forbes critic today, titled "Fantastic Four is flawed but acceptable reboot." Among other things he indicates he's a comic reader when he notes he's a fan of the classic issues but understands why Fox went with Ultimate FF. http://www.forbes.com/sites/markhughes/2015/08/07/review-fantastic-four-is-flawed-but-acceptable-reboot/ He also notes that it still could do $90-$100 million domestic + $200-$250 million foreign (and draws similarities to the performance of X-Men: First Class), thus setting up a blockbuster FF sequel (a la X-Men: DOFP). International Box Office results have been a tremendous contributor to many recent comic book movies. To the point it is at least 58% to 68% of the overall worldwide number for Marvel Studios. The previous Fantastic Four movies were released at a time where the Domestic Box Office was a much bigger play. Those International patrons could make a huge difference for a movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VintageComics Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Balanced review from a different Forbes critic today, titled "Fantastic Four is flawed but acceptable reboot." Among other things he indicates he's a comic reader when he notes he's a fan of the classic issues but understands why Fox went with Ultimate FF. http://www.forbes.com/sites/markhughes/2015/08/07/review-fantastic-four-is-flawed-but-acceptable-reboot/ He also notes that it still could do $90-$100 million domestic + $200-$250 million foreign (and draws similarities to the performance of X-Men: First Class), thus setting up a blockbuster FF sequel (a la X-Men: DOFP). It sounds like most of this is going to weigh on the Asian markets. If the Asian markets read online reviews and base their viewing dollars on that, this franchise is doomed. The only hope they have is for them to ignore the online reviews. How many in the asian markets even pay attention to the critics enough to make a difference? I would say more today than ever before and certainly more than 10 years ago. People turn to the internet for everything. Literally everything. From movie revues to recipes to trends to what color underwear to wear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BettrFastrStrongr Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 It would be great if they did a true Ultimate FF story. There might have been a chance to see the Marvel Zombies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted August 7, 2015 Author Share Posted August 7, 2015 How many in the asian markets even pay attention to the critics enough to make a difference? How much did the critics rip into ASM2, and it failed at the Domestic Box Office (bearly broke $200 MM), yet excelled at the International Box Office? Though to be honest, even ASM2 had better RT and IMDb reviews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatsby77 Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 For one thing, the $120MIL budget was released back in February before the reshoots and has never been updated, and 'remarkably restrained marketing'? Is he kidding? They've gone nuts advertising this thing in the last two months, it's campaign has been massive. Not true. From what I've read in other sources, the budget stayed at $122 million despite the re-shoots because the re-shoots were entirely financed out of the reserve originally earmarked for the 3D conversion. So they didn't go over-budget, but the necessity of re-shoots is why the movie's not 3D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VintageComics Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 So they didn't go over-budget, but the necessity of re-shoots is why the movie's not 3D. Does this mean that they lose the additional revenue that would generally come with 3D ticket sales then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatsby77 Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Yes. So it doesn't get the 20% 3-D bump that Ant-Man & others did but will have to stand on its own (a la the Batman movies & MI:5). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
