PGM! Saga #1 First Print

[Iceman399]

Thank you iceman I appreciate the response and clarification. I normally would not sub a modern with spine ticks either, although as I said I have had some obviously unread and rare, expensive and almost irreplaceable variants with 2-4 ticks come back in the 9.6-9.8 range. Really, nothing too much worse than this gentleman's saga 1. Admittedly that is the extent of my modern submissions but I don't see why that warrants condescending remarks. I thought the purpose of these boards was to share knowledge, information and experience. Make no mistake, my low post count is utterly irrelevant and not indicative of my collection or experience as a collector. Part of the fun of these boards is disagreeing with each other from time to time. That's why I am perplexed why so many grown ups on here like to get so personal all the time.

 

-J.

 

I am not saying don't sub a modern with spine ticks, just don't expect a 9.8 out of it on any given day. If you look at the photos you can see 5-7 spine ticks. Given that why I agree a 9.2. No one had condescending remarks other than this is hard to grade white on white or similar. Everyone offered their opinion and some of which were spot on (especially the one about buying it already graded) I think that is the way to go as well. You are the one who said we were "ridiculous" for thinking this was a 9.2 and disagreeing with the comments. Based on your sigline I think most would not put you at a modern collector or have the same experience as grading a 9.8 vs a 9.2 as golden age books often given some leeway for a higher grade when compared to a modern book fresh off the racks.

[Lost]

The "chunk of paper" you're referring to appears to be a small bindery tear. CGC reportedly does not deduct for those.

 

 

I asked this in another thread but never got a response so I'll ask it here as well..... what defects are allowable in a 9.8 since that is not a gem mint or mint condition grade? It is only NM/M, therefore books in that grade can in fact have certain minor defects, no?

 

-J.

 

 

Thank you iceman I appreciate the response and clarification. I normally would not sub a modern with spine ticks either, although as I said I have had some obviously unread and rare, expensive and almost irreplaceable variants with 2-4 ticks come back in the 9.6-9.8 range. Really, nothing too much worse than this gentleman's saga 1. Admittedly that is the extent of my modern submissions but I don't see why that warrants condescending remarks. I thought the purpose of these boards was to share knowledge, information and experience. Make no mistake, my low post count is utterly irrelevant and not indicative of my collection or experience as a collector. Part of the fun of these boards is disagreeing with each other from time to time. That's why I am perplexed why so many grown ups on here like to get so personal all the time.

 

-J.

 

Don't call someone's opinion ridiculous if you can't take the feedback they have for you. If you want clarification and grading knowledge there is a forum for that. This forum is to grade comics if people want second, third, or fourth opinions.

 

I give my opinion/grade based on CGC standards from what I see being sold in my CGC cases. Other people give their opinions/grades based on their own standards. If you think every NM- book you pick up could be a 9.8, god bless you. A good eye knows the difference between 9.2/9.4/9.6 and 9.8.

 

 

Thankfully CGC doesn't publish their standards... for good reason. There are far too many exceptions for comic books. It would be like trying to publish standards on human beauty across the world. There are certain basic standards and then some flexible judgment calls that are subjective.

 

 

[Jaydogrules]

Iceman,

 

Yes you are right GA books do seem to be graded on a curve. But I digress....

 

I actually did not call anyone out specifically when I said I thought a 9.2 grade was ridiculously low. I was referring to that grade for the book, not a specific poster. If someone said my belief that it's a 9.4-9.6 book with a press was totally absurd I would not take that personally. Like minds can disagree. It's just that way too many guys on here seem to read their own press releases a little too often and like to get personal if you should dare to disagree with them. That's just not cool. Plus I always like to encourage people who put up their books for us to admire that's also part of the fun of the boards. You're right I would not hold my breath for a modern with a couple spine ticks to come back a 9.8. But it does happen. I would rather be a glass half full friend than a negative Nancy to a fellow boardie. But that's just me. Like I said earlier though, if you guys like to grade conservatively so that some dude won't come back on here whining if his book doesn't grade out then that's another story .

 

And yes you're right I am predominately a GA/SA collector. Though I do have a nice little run of modern keys I'm trying to put together. Don't judge a man by his sig line.

 

-J.

[gradejunky]

The white covers are really hard to grade, but 9.2 seems a little harsh. 9.4 from pics with a possible 9.6 in hand. Those ticks don't look that bad and I can only see 3.

 

Edit: I now see about 6-7 minor ticks with the bindery tear at the bottom I originally took into account. 9.4 no better

[Jaydogrules]

The white covers are really hard to grade, but 9.2 seems a little harsh. 9.4 from pics with a possible 9.6 in hand. Those ticks don't look that bad and I can only see 3.

 

Edit: I now see about 6-7 minor ticks with the bindery tear at the bottom I originally took into account. 9.4 no better

 

Gradejunky: Do you think those ncb ticks could press out, or minimized to the point that the book would have a reasonable shot at a 9.6? Stranger things have happened...

 

-J.

[BarryAllen]

Yep, spend like $50 to get it pressed, another $40 to get it shipped and slabbed and then sell it for around $160 (if it makes it to 9.8, if 9.6 = $120 and 9.4 = $100).

 

 

 

 

 

Also, 9.2 in current state.

 

 

[Jaydogrules]

Yep, spend like $50 to get it pressed, another $40 to get it shipped and slabbed and then sell it for around $160 (if it makes it to 9.8, if 9.6 = $120 and 9.4 = $100).

 

 

 

 

 

Also, 9.2 in current state.

 

 

If he bought the book at cover price I would say it's worth the gamble. I don't think he would get dinged too hard for just the little bindery tear that would be left over. But maybe he just wants to keep it and not sell it and would like to see it in a 9.8 slab for posterity. I would love to hear back from the OP what his book comes back at if he still decides to submit it after this cluster *spoon* of controversy his PGM __ request has generated. .

 

-J.

[krazykris7]

yeah I may submit it just to see whos right

I didn't buy it at cover price but I did get it at a very reasonable price for todays market so I thought I might as well give it a try as to see if it would get a higher grade as in hand the book looks really nice

I did notice a couple of spine ticks but it's difficult with the white cover as you can't really see them well/what damage they have done

I already have a 9.8 so this would be a secondary copy and I would probably be planning on selling it but from peoples feedback it doesn't seem as if it's really worth it

I personally thought with a press it could possibly be a 9.8 candidate if not a 9.6 but then again I'm fairly inexperienced in the field

On another note I'm going to scan it again today with higher resolution and something behind to make it more visible

I'll update the thread when I have!

[krazykris7]

Updated with new bigger more visible scans!

[Iceman399]

Iceman,

 

Yes you are right GA books do seem to be graded on a curve. But I digress....

 

I actually did not call anyone out specifically when I said I thought a 9.2 grade was ridiculously low. I was referring to that grade for the book, not a specific poster. If someone said my belief that it's a 9.4-9.6 book with a press was totally absurd I would not take that personally. Like minds can disagree. It's just that way too many guys on here seem to read their own press releases a little too often and like to get personal if you should dare to disagree with them. That's just not cool. Plus I always like to encourage people who put up their books for us to admire that's also part of the fun of the boards. You're right I would not hold my breath for a modern with a couple spine ticks to come back a 9.8. But it does happen. I would rather be a glass half full friend than a negative Nancy to a fellow boardie. But that's just me. Like I said earlier though, if you guys like to grade conservatively so that some dude won't come back on here whining if his book doesn't grade out then that's another story .

 

And yes you're right I am predominately a GA/SA collector. Though I do have a nice little run of modern keys I'm trying to put together. Don't judge a man by his sig line.

 

-J.

 

I think the issue arises that you state the book is a 9.4 and others stated 9.2 but that 1 grade point to you is "ridiculous". No matter the book, age or grade no one will always agree with the assigned grade, some will be higher/lower.

 

I love Saga. I get it monthly and have the trades, so by no means is this an attack on the book or individual. I would love to say this book is a 9.8, but I would be lying and not doing the boardie any help and rather a disservice in doing so. I would rather give my honest opinion and say hey you have a 9.2 book imo there and because of X,Y,Z (bindery tear doesn't play much of a role on Saga 1's most have a pretty bad one this is middle of the road from the ones I have seen). Due to the above grade I wouldn't get it graded (you will lose money in the end, as you could sell it raw for close to the cost of shipping/slabbing/pressing) you are wiser to sell it raw and pick up a graded copy if that is what you want.

 

I can't speak to the OP but he already has one graded at 9.8, IMO leave it raw and unless you needed to sell it keep it!

 

I hope to get more into Golden Age books but those suckers are hard to find! I <3 my silvers

[aszumilo]

Both of my Saga #1 9.8s have that same bindery tear, as do all of my raw copies. I don't think the bindery tear will affect the grade.

[Kevin.J]

9.4 for me............at best

[gradejunky]

Both of my Saga #1 9.8s have that same bindery tear, as do all of my raw copies. I don't think the bindery tear will affect the grade.

 

I think mine do to.

 

 

As far as grading moderns go, I always pretend that a book is a 10, then deduct for every flaw based on severity. That bindery tear would be 1 point for me, so if the rest of the book was flawless I'd say a 9.9-add another spine corner flaw and 1-2 very minor spine tick/dimples etc.= 9.8. Just how I do it

[gradejunky]

The white covers are really hard to grade, but 9.2 seems a little harsh. 9.4 from pics with a possible 9.6 in hand. Those ticks don't look that bad and I can only see 3.

 

Edit: I now see about 6-7 minor ticks with the bindery tear at the bottom I originally took into account. 9.4 no better

 

Gradejunky: Do you think those ncb ticks could press out, or minimized to the point that the book would have a reasonable shot at a 9.6? Stranger things have happened...

 

-J.

 

I think so maybe. I don't have any experience with pressing, but what I do know about it should help soften or remove those with a 9.6 shot.

[timfinz]

Both of my Saga #1 9.8s have that same bindery tear, as do all of my raw copies. I don't think the bindery tear will affect the grade.

My understanding is that depending on the severity of the bindery tear it may not have an effect on the grade. In this case I would say that the bindery tear is negligible and would not be considered against the grade.

In reviewing the new scans I would say that 9.4 is not out of the question.

Happy New Year Cheers!

[UncannyX-Force]

Calling this book a "9.2" is ridiculous in my opinion.

You guys do realize that CGC gives books with multiple spine ticks 9.8's all the time, right? 9.8 is not a mint or "perfect" book. It is NM/M. Therefore some minor defects are allowed.

 

-J.

 

The scans have been changed, the original scans looked to have a bend in the center of the book not a spine tick but a spine bend that looked as if it went through to the pages which would also make the pages have bends or creases in them as well.

 

Like it was on a shelf or a rack and the book got pulled foward bending it.

 

CGC doesn't just grade the cover they grade the whole book, Cover, Pages, Corners, Edges, etc. etc. etc.

 

Based on the 1st Scans I'd say 9.2 with the new Scans that look to be a different book I'd say 9.4.

[Jaydogrules]

Calling this book a "9.2" is ridiculous in my opinion.

You guys do realize that CGC gives books with multiple spine ticks 9.8's all the time, right? 9.8 is not a mint or "perfect" book. It is NM/M. Therefore some minor defects are allowed.

 

-J.

 

The scans have been changed, the original scans looked to have a bend in the center of the book not a spine tick but a spine bend that looked as if it went through to the pages which would also make the pages have bends or creases in them as well.

 

Like it was on a shelf or a rack and the book got pulled foward bending it.

 

CGC doesn't just grade the cover they grade the whole book Cover, Pages, Corners, Edges, etc. etc. etc.

 

Based on the 1st Scans I'd say 9.2 with the new Scans that look to be a different book I'd say 9.4.

 

9.6 with a press?

 

-J.

[UncannyX-Force]

Calling this book a "9.2" is ridiculous in my opinion.

You guys do realize that CGC gives books with multiple spine ticks 9.8's all the time, right? 9.8 is not a mint or "perfect" book. It is NM/M. Therefore some minor defects are allowed.

 

-J.

 

The scans have been changed, the original scans looked to have a bend in the center of the book not a spine tick but a spine bend that looked as if it went through to the pages which would also make the pages have bends or creases in them as well.

 

Like it was on a shelf or a rack and the book got pulled foward bending it.

 

CGC doesn't just grade the cover they grade the whole book Cover, Pages, Corners, Edges, etc. etc. etc.

 

Based on the 1st Scans I'd say 9.2 with the new Scans that look to be a different book I'd say 9.4.

 

9.6 with a press?

 

-J.

 

9.6 is very possible even a 9.8 might be possible with a press because this book has a white cover so none of the spine ticks break color.

[The-Collector]

Thanks a lot for the info guys!

Sorry about the first scan I'll try and get a better one! Yeah looking at it I thought it was at least a 9.4-9.6 but hey I'll get it pressed and graded and see how it goes!

 

This book is cheap enough that you can sell this and just buy a 9.8. Save yourself the hassle of pressing and waiting (and hoping).

 

For some people that process is fun.