HULK #1 CLUB : THE PUNY LITTLE MAN LEAGUE

[MasterChief]

You're extremely opinionated and argumentative, and I've noticed that from other threads but you rarely back down, even if you're wrong.

 

Come on, Roy. Stop trying to undermine his credibility by attacking his character.

 

His comments are not extreme by any means.

 

Nor are they "emotional" (another of the cards you play when the debate's not going your way).

 

It's a good discussion thus far. So let's not derail it with ad hominem.

 

Thanks!

 

I'm not saying those things to undermine his character. I've seen him debate before. He's never wrong.

 

His comments use words which really don't have a place in this discussion and he's using them for emphasis.

 

Anybody who has a reasonable understanding of how restored and unrestored books relate to each other agrees that the CBCS #1 was not a bad purchase.

 

And I've seen you debate before. Many a time. Some good stuff too.

 

But the card you played is, unfortunately, how you come across at times…

 

 

 

 

[Silver Surfer]

[The-Collector]

[ Again, in theory a tear seal, Color touch, reinforcement at least have the possibility to be reversed. Without proper inspection by a professional resto removal expert, its all a gamble. SP is your best chance at success while MP could be possible and EP is pretty much impossible.

 

Having said all that, would you have bought that book for 8K and taken a chance ? The risk/reward doesn't seem to be here. Unless the new owner comes here and says otherwise, I think the spin by the seller resulted in that sale. His statement that the book was 'not restored' is, at best, a stretch of the truth.

I paid over GPA for this

 

And from memory that gamble turned out very well!

[drbanner]

Depending on the book, grade and type/amount of restorations a book can sell for 1/20 to 3/4 the value of the same book in a universal label. The other 2 recent sales are simply far too different to make a valid comparison.

 

Far too different? Not really.

 

-J.

 

One book was trimmed which is maybe the worst killer of a books value today.

The other book has a sloppy mess of a Stan Lee sig and "inscription" along with someone messing with Banners face big time. Huge turnoffs for a large portion of the market.

 

I think the guy who spent $8k on the third Hulk #1 actually made the best purchase out of those 3 books.

No doubt. (thumbs u

[VintageComics]

You're extremely opinionated and argumentative, and I've noticed that from other threads but you rarely back down, even if you're wrong.

 

Come on, Roy. Stop trying to undermine his credibility by attacking his character.

 

His comments are not extreme by any means.

 

Nor are they "emotional" (another of the cards you play when the debate's not going your way).

 

It's a good discussion thus far. So let's not derail it with ad hominem.

 

Thanks!

 

I'm not saying those things to undermine his character. I've seen him debate before. He's never wrong.

 

His comments use words which really don't have a place in this discussion and he's using them for emphasis.

 

Anybody who has a reasonable understanding of how restored and unrestored books relate to each other agrees that the CBCS #1 was not a bad purchase.

 

And I've seen you debate before. Many a time. Some good stuff too.

 

But the card you played is, unfortunately, how you come across at times…

 

 

 

 

Not at all.

 

The main point that I tried to make in this entire discussion was that the buyer of the Hulk #1 did not necessarily get ripped off.

 

Yeah, I can be pretty tenacious but as I said last night, the points have been made I'm done discussing it.

 

I'm getting older.

[Junkdrawer]

[ Again, in theory a tear seal, Color touch, reinforcement at least have the possibility to be reversed. Without proper inspection by a professional resto removal expert, its all a gamble. SP is your best chance at success while MP could be possible and EP is pretty much impossible.

 

Having said all that, would you have bought that book for 8K and taken a chance ? The risk/reward doesn't seem to be here. Unless the new owner comes here and says otherwise, I think the spin by the seller resulted in that sale. His statement that the book was 'not restored' is, at best, a stretch of the truth.

I paid over GPA for this

 

And from memory that gamble turned out very well!

Legend has it.

[gadzukes]

Depending on the book, grade and type/amount of restorations a book can sell for 1/20 to 3/4 the value of the same book in a universal label. The other 2 recent sales are simply far too different to make a valid comparison.

 

Far too different? Not really.

 

-J.

 

One book was trimmed which is maybe the worst killer of a books value today.

The other book has a sloppy mess of a Stan Lee sig and "inscription" along with someone messing with Banners face big time. Huge turnoffs for a large portion of the market.

 

I think the guy who spent $8k on the third Hulk #1 actually made the best purchase out of those 3 books.

No doubt. (thumbs u

 

+1

[Jaydogrules]

Depending on the book, grade and type/amount of restorations a book can sell for 1/20 to 3/4 the value of the same book in a universal label. The other 2 recent sales are simply far too different to make a valid comparison.

 

Far too different? Not really.

 

-J.

 

One book was trimmed which is maybe the worst killer of a books value today.

The other book has a sloppy mess of a Stan Lee sig and "inscription" along with someone messing with Banners face big time. Huge turnoffs for a large portion of the market.

 

I think the guy who spent $8k on the third Hulk #1 actually made the best purchase out of those 3 books.

No doubt. (thumbs u

 

I would say the unlikely - hood of this statement (in addition to the actual relative sales prices realized for each book in restored grade) is exacerbated even further by the very clear and palpable discount that CBCS slabs typically sell for compared to CGC slabs.

 

-J.

[Junkdrawer]

Depending on the book, grade and type/amount of restorations a book can sell for 1/20 to 3/4 the value of the same book in a universal label. The other 2 recent sales are simply far too different to make a valid comparison.

 

Far too different? Not really.

 

-J.

 

One book was trimmed which is maybe the worst killer of a books value today.

The other book has a sloppy mess of a Stan Lee sig and "inscription" along with someone messing with Banners face big time. Huge turnoffs for a large portion of the market.

 

I think the guy who spent $8k on the third Hulk #1 actually made the best purchase out of those 3 books.

No doubt. (thumbs u

 

I would say the unlikely - hood of this statement (in addition to the actual relative sales prices realized for each book in restored grade) is exacerbated even further by the very clear and palpable discount that CBCS slabs typically sell for compared to CGC slabs.

 

-J.

Relative sales prices?

[Junkdrawer]

Untapped potential is what the CBCS book has that the so called "relative sales prices" lacked.

[Jaydogrules]

Depending on the book, grade and type/amount of restorations a book can sell for 1/20 to 3/4 the value of the same book in a universal label. The other 2 recent sales are simply far too different to make a valid comparison.

 

Far too different? Not really.

 

-J.

 

One book was trimmed which is maybe the worst killer of a books value today.

The other book has a sloppy mess of a Stan Lee sig and "inscription" along with someone messing with Banners face big time. Huge turnoffs for a large portion of the market.

 

I think the guy who spent $8k on the third Hulk #1 actually made the best purchase out of those 3 books.

No doubt. (thumbs u

 

I would say the unlikely - hood of this statement (in addition to the actual relative sales prices realized for each book in restored grade) is exacerbated even further by the very clear and palpable discount that CBCS slabs typically sell for compared to CGC slabs.

 

-J.

Relative sales prices?

 

Yep. I would not be surprised if that CBCS book once lived in a purple CGC holder. Regardless of what one's personal opinion is of the amount or extent of the resto on the other books, I am not aware of anyone who pays a "premium" for books with bad amateur resto on it (that would likely require removal of at least half the back cover to totally eradicate), and certainly not a 100% premium over a book with professional resto, and definitely not for something CBCS has graded. And "potential" for what? The best case scenario is the book gets hacked to pieces to be worth.... $6-7k? Buyer should have just bought a blue label 2.5. Let's not get crazy now.

 

-J.

[Junkdrawer]

Depending on the book, grade and type/amount of restorations a book can sell for 1/20 to 3/4 the value of the same book in a universal label. The other 2 recent sales are simply far too different to make a valid comparison.

 

Far too different? Not really.

 

-J.

 

One book was trimmed which is maybe the worst killer of a books value today.

The other book has a sloppy mess of a Stan Lee sig and "inscription" along with someone messing with Banners face big time. Huge turnoffs for a large portion of the market.

 

I think the guy who spent $8k on the third Hulk #1 actually made the best purchase out of those 3 books.

No doubt. (thumbs u

 

I would say the unlikely - hood of this statement (in addition to the actual relative sales prices realized for each book in restored grade) is exacerbated even further by the very clear and palpable discount that CBCS slabs typically sell for compared to CGC slabs.

 

-J.

Relative sales prices?

 

Yep. I would not be surprised if that CBCS book once lived in a purple CGC holder. Regardless of what one's personal opinion is of the amount or extent of the resto on the other books, I am not aware of anyone who pays a "premium" for books with bad amateur resto on it (that would likely require removal of at least half the back cover to totally eradicate), and certainly not a 100% premium over a book with professional resto, and definitely not for something CBCS has graded. And "potential" for what? The best case scenario is the book gets hacked to pieces to be worth.... $6-7k? Buyer should have just bought a blue label 2.5. Let's not get crazy now.

 

-J.

I'm not sure how you know the work is hack. The person who performed the work may have done a great job. It's all about the materials used and not of the quality of workmanship.

[Jaydogrules]

Check out the enlarged pics of the back cover again. You can see it's pretty bad and the affected area is quite large.

As bomber-bob said earlier for that book to ever see a blue label all traces of whatever was added to the book would need to be completely gone. And that's not even taking into account how much glue would have to be removed from the spine, how big of a spine split would re-appear, and whether or not it would get even worse from the scraping.

 

I frankly don't see how this book could be un-restored without being ruined. And I doubt that was even the buyer's intent. I just think he got ripped off by a mis-leading label and a borderline deceitful seller.

 

-J.

[Junkdrawer]

Check out the enlarged pics of the back cover again. You can see it's pretty bad and the affected area is quite large.

As bomber-bob said earlier for that book to ever see a blue label all traces of whatever was added to the book would need to be completely gone. And that's not even taking into account how much glue would have to be removed from the spine, how big of a spine split would re-appear, and whether or not it would get even worse from the scraping.

 

I frankly don't see how this book could be un-restored without being ruined. And I doubt that was even the buyer's intent. I just think he got ripped off by a mis-leading label and a borderline deceitful seller.

 

-J.

I only hope you sniff it out in its new holder if an when it appears. I'd love to revist this thread at that time and see how it all worked out. Now it's all speculation, opinions etc.

[drbanner]

Depending on the book, grade and type/amount of restorations a book can sell for 1/20 to 3/4 the value of the same book in a universal label. The other 2 recent sales are simply far too different to make a valid comparison.

 

Far too different? Not really.

 

-J.

 

One book was trimmed which is maybe the worst killer of a books value today.

The other book has a sloppy mess of a Stan Lee sig and "inscription" along with someone messing with Banners face big time. Huge turnoffs for a large portion of the market.

 

I think the guy who spent $8k on the third Hulk #1 actually made the best purchase out of those 3 books.

No doubt. (thumbs u

 

I would say the unlikely - hood of this statement (in addition to the actual relative sales prices realized for each book in restored grade) is exacerbated even further by the very clear and palpable discount that CBCS slabs typically sell for compared to CGC slabs.

 

-J.

 

Wrong again Jay, sorry. The two CGC books you're trying to compare are nothing like the book with the rear cover tear seal/reinforcement - one is trimmed and that's the worst kind of defect a restored book can have making it a non-starter in this discussion altogether, and the other is literally a Frankenbook with extensive and shoddy piece replacement and color touch (which can easily be seen in the large images).

 

On the plus side, both the trimmed non-starter book and the Frankenbook are perfect SS candidates.

[Bomber-Bob]

 

On the plus side, both the trimmed non-starter book and the Frankenbook are perfect SS candidates.

 

Yes, the ol 'get it signed by Stan and double my money' could be in play. Never thought of that.

In summary, for me at least, I understand everyone's comments about this book being a good candidate for an 'unrestore'. I never even considered such things before and have learned a lot from this discussion. However, I don't think the risk/reward, along with the cost and effort of an unrestore made this sale a good purchase. IMO he buyer overpaid. I also think the seller was borderline deceitful. He should not have commented that the book is NOT restored. Also, the label of the other company lends itself to this type of deception. Not cool. I think CGC still rules.

[VintageComics]

[ CGC also let's light resto slide on a blue label in the GA for whatever reason.

 

-J.

 

Good point. The Hulk1 would have to be cleaned up completely.No traces of glue at all are allowed.

I once had an Avengers 1 with CT and a glued on chip unrestored by Matt. It took a number of submissions before all traces of the glue/CT were gone.

 

I think that the removal of all color touch would be necessary but not necessarily glue.

 

The color touch would still affect the appearance of the book, even in small amounts whereas the glue, if it's not holding anything together structurally, would likely be considered a residue and factored into the grade much like a good smear or something along those lines.

 

That's just my educated opinion of course. I'm not a CGC graded.

[Jaydogrules]

The glue is what's "reinforcing" a sizable section of one of the corners of the book. It would all have to go, and I don't see that happening without completely excising that corner. No wiggle room for that in SA or newer. Another reason I don't see the book as viable un-restore candidate. (thumbs u

 

-J.

[Bomber-Bob]

[ CGC also let's light resto slide on a blue label in the GA for whatever reason.

 

-J.

 

Good point. The Hulk1 would have to be cleaned up completely.No traces of glue at all are allowed.

I once had an Avengers 1 with CT and a glued on chip unrestored by Matt. It took a number of submissions before all traces of the glue/CT were gone.

 

I think that the removal of all color touch would be necessary but not necessarily glue.

 

The color touch would still affect the appearance of the book, even in small amounts whereas the glue, if it's not holding anything together structurally, would likely be considered a residue and factored into the grade much like a good smear or something along those lines.

 

That's just my educated opinion of course. I'm not a CGC graded.

 

In my Avengers 1 case, after the first unrestored submission, the CT on the label was gone but it still had the glue reference. Another unrestore and resub, same thing. Finally, the third submission worked but the chip that was held on by the glue had 'fallen' off.

I know I had another unexpected Purple submission with only a minor amount of glue reference on the label. I think you are correct about GA but on SA they seem to want it clean to get a Blue Label. Maybe you are right if the glue is just residue, not serving a purpose.Who knows ?

[VintageComics]

In my Avengers 1 case, after the first unrestored submission, the CT on the label was gone but it still had the glue reference. Another unrestore and resub, same thing. Finally, the third submission worked but the chip that was held on by the glue had 'fallen' off.

I know I had another unexpected Purple submission with only a minor amount of glue reference on the label. I think you are correct about GA but on SA they seem to want it clean to get a Blue Label. Maybe you are right if the glue is just residue, not serving a purpose.Who knows ?

 

I think if it's a case of the glue holding a chip on it's going to be a problem but if it's just on an edge and not securing anything, it's no different than just sitting on the top of a cover and in that case I think they will call it a residue rather than restoration.

 

I do know that CT has to be completely gone.

 

Again, just my opinion. I am not a CGC grader.