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Why the hate?

Started by Arkham,

36 posts in this topic

stanley1883

stanley1883

Posted
Posted

Personally, I don't hate CGC but do think they could improve. Their return times have been a subject of debate ad nauseum and when I call their Customer Service, I think they could definitely use some training. My biggest criticism would be that CGC is really the only grading service, and they act like they know that.(yes there is PGX, but come on) I do love the slabs though, but I do want to CGC improve, but this wasnt the issue, sorry.

 

The other problem comes into play with sellers. 9.8 books are grossly overpriced IMHO compared to their 9.6 counterparts. I believe that this in turn frustrates a lot of collectors who can't understand why their 9.6 isn't a 9.8, etc. Obviously this isn't CGC's fault but people take it out on CGC for the grading discrepancies. I've had my eyes opened like many others when my 9.2 came back and I though it would be higher. I have learned a bit more on grading but am nowhere near an expert.

 

At least thats what I think, but I have been wrong before.

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Wall-Crawler

Wall-Crawler

Posted
Posted
Okay... so I'm obviously biased - but I love these boards and the reason for that is the people on them and the VAST amount of knowledge that people happily share with each other. (The odd bargain in the for sale section goes alright too).

 

But when I trawl around other "comic book" related forums online, I'm usually dismayed by two things, firstly the sheer volume of numb nuts there are out there that share this hobby but secondly the anti-CGC sentiment.

 

People usually flame CGC for:

- variations in QC;

- being unable to open the book;

 

While I agree that a classic cover wrapped up in mylar is an incredibly sexy thing to look at... but I also know that a slab is a truly beautiful thing. The argument of "not being able to open the book" aside (buy a reader) I don't know how anyone could hate them.

 

 

 

Being based in Aus, I place a lot of trust in the slab when buying a key book. So, for mine, I get a strong sense of trust that what I am receiving is exactly what it is advertised as (provided it shows up) and a beautiful thing to look at.

 

Is the hate for a understandable reason or do people just want something to moan about?

 

haters-gonna-hate-151.jpg

 

Are you moaning/hating on the internet about people moaning/hating on the internet? :baiting:

 

:ohnoez: :ohnoez: :ohnoez:

 

:roflmao:

 

Just kidding buddy!

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Wall-Crawler

Wall-Crawler

Posted
Posted

On a serious note, I will use my experience with my LCS. Keep in mind this is a small LCS in a small town.

 

The owner, who is a great guy, does not believe in CGC. A couple of the staff also share the same point of view. The argument put forward is "why should I have someone tell me what the grade is, I have been in the business for decades, I know how to grade".

 

And

 

"Prices for CGC books are completely inflated and over-priced".

 

However, an interesting thing happened. I started to sub books through a larger store that is a CGC authorized dealer. Prior to doing so I started educating myself on these boards, using the PGM forum and the other threads...I have and continue to learn A LOT here. Anyway, once I started bringing and showing these guys my books, suddenly they were interested. As I travel frequently, I started bringing some of their books to be subbed.

 

They had a few surprises. An East of West coming back at a 9.2 for example. I never commented on their books prior to subbing b/c a) I was never asked to and b) one of them had a bit of "I'm older than you, I know how to grade" attitude.

 

After a couple of surprises, now (and I am by NO MEANS AN EXPERT) they ask me to look over their books before I sub them. Recently, the older guy wanted to sub a 1st Constatine. I looked it over and said he may not want to do that b/c there were several flaws that would make his book a 8.5 AT BEST, that for whatever reason, either he was rushing or whatever, never noticed. He chose not to sub that book and had me look over a few alternates.

 

After this experience, I feel reasons for not liking CGC is also an education issue or lack of education about CGC as a whole.

 

Now that these guys have had a chance to see and look at it a bit more objectively, their dislike has subsided - Unlike some of these keyboard warriors, they have also come to look at it more objectively and seperate the 'personal' from the grading process and results.

 

Are there problems with CGC and the hobby? For sure. But I think the hobby is better overall with CGC in it.

 

2c

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slym2none

slym2none

Posted
Posted
Personally, I don't hate CGC but do think they could improve. Their return times have been a subject of debate ad nauseum and when I call their Customer Service, I think they could definitely use some training. My biggest criticism would be that CGC is really the only grading service, and they act like they know that.(yes there is PGX, but come on)

 

Pff... Vault is where it's at!

 

(:

 

 

 

-slym

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followtheleader

followtheleader

Posted
Posted

It's flat out because most books in a comic shop or the average person's collection are not high grade. Which means they are worth MUCH less than the person thought/hoped for.

 

Is there too much label chasing for grade numbers? Yes. Does professional grading expose a TON of frauds? Yes.

 

Pat

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NewWorldOrder

NewWorldOrder

Posted
Posted
Is the hate for a understandable reason or do people just want something to moan about?

 

Both. The understandable reason they're overlooking is that 95% of collectors don't buy comics where overgrading or restoration ends up losing them hundreds or thousands of dollars, so they don't realize that the inexorable value of certification is that it's an insurance cost. Most of those collectors think the whole point is just fascination by the presentation of the slab and they see this as cheapening the hobby, so I get why they don't like CGC.

 

I think most of the hate comes from the average joe's inability to grade or detect resto, and once they submit, they get a lesson they don't like - please reference all the 5.0-6.5 common SA that pops up on eBay. Who would be submitting that carp if they knew how to grade? Then there is the perceived gaming of the system and collusion with the pressing crowd. And the prices asked for many slabs. It is interesting to see the 'true value' when legitimate, no-reserve auctions are run.

 

 

A lot of auctions can suffer from bad timing and people not knowing the book they want is even being auctioned off.

 

Auctions have a good amount of variance in their final prices but I would never say true value & auctions ever in a sentence without the word deviation to a degree.

 

A general price range yes, true value not entirely true.

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Arkham

Arkham

Posted
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Posted

Are you moaning/hating on the internet about people moaning/hating on the internet? :baiting:

 

Hahaha. Got me.

 

PS. Wanna grade some of my books for me? Really nice feedback to be having!

 

Some really interesting posts in this thread - really liked this:

 

It's a combination of a lot of these things. In the face of it, resistance to certification is mostly healthy.

 

The healthy resistence is usually divided into several camps. Purists, who are old guard collectors that just don't see the fuss about certification. These are the touch/feel/smell type that see a "tomb" as an interference play on a hobby they've been mostly able to enjoy without rent-a-graders.

 

Then there are collectors who are just plain worried certification is going to blow the ceiling on values and open the floodgates for specs. But even these guys will be the first to post asking for opinions on a juicy piece they come into for fear they are going to leave money on the table when they sell. And on this point, you can almost see the dust-ups that are going to arise if they decide to play the testa dura, forgo submitting, sell within the community, and later find their books online being sold at multiples of what they got when they sold it ungraded.

 

The guys who just bang on the anti-CGC drum for the sake of banging on it - well, this is sometimes annoying and frustrating, but that oppositional view can sometimes also provide a much needed reality check for some to properly realize not all books should be certified, nor will all books benefit from sitting in a slab.

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lizards2

lizards2

Posted
Posted
Is the hate for a understandable reason or do people just want something to moan about?

 

Both. The understandable reason they're overlooking is that 95% of collectors don't buy comics where overgrading or restoration ends up losing them hundreds or thousands of dollars, so they don't realize that the inexorable value of certification is that it's an insurance cost. Most of those collectors think the whole point is just fascination by the presentation of the slab and they see this as cheapening the hobby, so I get why they don't like CGC.

 

I think most of the hate comes from the average joe's inability to grade or detect resto, and once they submit, they get a lesson they don't like - please reference all the 5.0-6.5 common SA that pops up on eBay. Who would be submitting that carp if they knew how to grade? Then there is the perceived gaming of the system and collusion with the pressing crowd. And the prices asked for many slabs. It is interesting to see the 'true value' when legitimate, no-reserve auctions are run.

 

 

A lot of auctions can suffer from bad timing and people not knowing the book they want is even being auctioned off.

 

Auctions have a good amount of variance in their final prices but I would never say true value & auctions ever in a sentence without the word deviation to a degree.

 

A general price range yes, true value not entirely true.

Good points. My position is that of a collector, and yours is that of a dealer, so it does paint our opinions a bit. Maybe they give us a general price range of true value.
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