THE AMAZING FANTASY #15 CLUB 39 39

[namisgr]

1 hour ago, Jaydogrules said:

I repeat, those "toasty" looking edges you think you see in those scans of those AF 15's have nothing to do with the "PQ" on the label, those are either light dust or sun shadows

Strike three.

Edited May 9, 2017 by namisgr

[Bomber-Bob]

1 hour ago, Jaydogrules said:

A structural grade can, to a reasonable extent, be determined and verified visually through a slab and with graders' notes.  

 

First off, the majority of books are sold online without the luxury of having the book in hand.  The majority of buyers simply believe the grade on the label and purchase accordingly. IMO, the integrity of the grade is far less 'dependable' than the integrity of the PQ.  

Secondly, you did not answer my question. Do YOU believe in the grade on the label ? We know you don't believe in the PQ. If not, what do you believe in ?

Edited May 9, 2017 by Bomber-Bob

[Jaydogrules]

15 minutes ago, namisgr said:

Strike three.

Don't stop believin'.  Have you ever considered starting a religion based on the alleged "PQ" of your comic books?  

You could sit around a campfire with other like minded followers with the drumbeat of bongos in the background whilst you all marvel how much better you think your books are than everybody else's.  

-J.

(I kid, of course, just yankin' yer chain a little. )

 

Edited May 9, 2017 by Jaydogrules

[namisgr]

2 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

You could sit around a campfire with the drumbeat of bongos in the background whilst you all marvel how much better you think your books are than everybody else's.  

-J.

 

Edited May 9, 2017 by namisgr

[Jaydogrules]

9 minutes ago, Bomber-Bob said:

First off, the majority of books are sold online without the luxury of having the book in hand.  The majority of buyers simply believe the grade on the label and purchase accordingly. IMO, the integrity of the grade is far less 'dependable' than the integrity of the PQ.  

Yes the majority of books are sold online though, with the benefit of a scan, and, as we all know, it is fairly common around these parts for people to offer an opinion on how a book "looks" based on scans.  (Something, again, that can not be done with "PQ"), since that is obviously based on the suppleness of the book, and not what it "looks like".

-J.

[Bomber-Bob]

1 minute ago, Jaydogrules said:

Yes the majority of books are sold online though, with the benefit of a scan, and, as we all know, it is fairly common around these parts for people to offer an opinion on how a book "looks" based on scans.  (Something, again, that can not be done with "PQ"), since that is obviously based on the suppleness of the book, and not what it "looks like".

-J.

But you did not answer my question. Do YOU believe in the grade on the label ? We know you don't believe in the PQ. If not, what do you believe in ?

[namisgr]

3 minutes ago, Bomber-Bob said:

But you did not answer my question. Do YOU believe in the grade on the label ? We know you don't believe in the PQ. If not, what do you believe in ?

He believes in the suppleness-o-meter they've got stashed at Sarasota HQ.

Edited May 9, 2017 by namisgr

[Jaydogrules]

5 minutes ago, Bomber-Bob said:

But you did not answer my question. Do YOU believe in the grade on the label ? We know you don't believe in the PQ. If not, what do you believe in ?

Since I can, through a combo of a high res scan and graders' notes, either  confirm or deny the structural grade of a book with independent judgement, yes I do rely on it far, far more consistently.  If I feel a book is "over graded" I bid accordingly.   Same way if I feel a book is "under graded".  Isn't that what everyone does?   There's an entire conversation about it, and how the "only" reason those AF 15's in the last CC auction went strong is because they "looked upgradeble" literally, just a few pages back in this thread.   While that belief is nonsense, it's still a conversation that just recently occurred nonetheless.

-J.

Edited May 10, 2017 by Jaydogrules

[Jaydogrules]

6 minutes ago, namisgr said:

He believes in the suppleness-o-meter they've got stashed at Sarasota HQ.

No, but I do take the so-called "PQ" on the label for all the reasons, knowing what I know, for the reasons I have outlined in great detail above (barring "brittle" of course, which is indeed a palpable quality of the page, AND is even visible through the slab via flecks of paper accumulating at the bottom of it in many well documented instances).

-J.

 

[Bomber-Bob]

5 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

Since I can, through a combo of a high res scan and graders' notes, either  confirm or deny the structural grade of a book with independent judgement, yes I do rely on it far, far more consistently.  If I feel a book is "over graded" I bid accordingly.   Same way if I feel a book is "under graded".  Isn't that what everyone does?   There's an entire conversation about it, and how the "only" reason those AF 15's in the last CC auction went strong is because they "looked upgradeble" literally, just a few pages back in this thread.   While that belief is nonsense, it's still a conversation that just recently occurred nonetheless.

-J.

Jaydog, have you ever acknowledged someone's opinion that didn't concur with your own as legitimate, or even reasonable ? You constantly berate us with laughing emoticons, claiming our discussions are nonsense, saying we should start a religion with our beliefs. We may have more respect for your opinions if you had more respect for ours. There's no justifiable reason for you to ridicule .

[peewee22]

7 minutes ago, Bomber-Bob said:

Jaydog, have you ever acknowledged someone's opinion that didn't concur with your own as legitimate, or even reasonable ? You constantly berate us with laughing emoticons, claiming our discussions are nonsense, saying we should start a religion with our beliefs. We may have more respect for your opinions if you had more respect for ours. There's no justifiable reason for you to ridicule .

Bob, maybe there's something in the water where jaydog grazes.

[Jaydogrules]

11 minutes ago, Bomber-Bob said:

Jaydog, have you ever acknowledged someone's opinion that didn't concur with your own as legitimate, or even reasonable ? You constantly berate us with laughing emoticons, claiming our discussions are nonsense, saying we should start a religion with our beliefs. We may have more respect for your opinions if you had more respect for ours. There's no justifiable reason for you to ridicule .

Not you, but namisgr has been fairly snarky as well.  I only give when I get.  Maybe look at the the entire ebb and flow of the conversation and not just what I have written (but I suspect you don't examine namisgr's posting style with nary the critical eye that you do mine, simply because you agree with his POV, even though I almost everything I have described is well settled scientific fact, regardless of what you think about the "PQ" CGC decides to slap on a label when they grade a book).  And at the end of the day, if someone can't handle a little ribbing on a chat board (as was made very clear is what I was doing in most of my snarky posts) , then maybe the internet isn't your thing.   

-J.

Edited May 10, 2017 by Jaydogrules

[Bomber-Bob]

1 minute ago, peewee22 said:

Bob, maybe there's something in the water where jaydog grazes.

Jaydog's arguments are the classic 'what I collect is cool, what you collect is junk'. If you really think about what we are 'arguing' about here is the fact that some of us like a nice clean cover with a nice PQ designation on the label. And this annoys him so ? I just can't figure out his agenda.

[peewee22]

1 minute ago, Bomber-Bob said:

Jaydog's arguments are the classic 'what I collect is cool, what you collect is junk'. If you really think about what we are 'arguing' about here is the fact that some of us like a nice clean cover with a nice PQ designation on the label. And this annoys him so ? I just can't figure out his agenda.

If CGC did not post PQ on the label, I would be collecting stamps or rolling coins. I think many would follow me too.

[Jaydogrules]

11 minutes ago, Bomber-Bob said:

Jaydog's arguments are the classic 'what I collect is cool, what you collect is junk'. If you really think about what we are 'arguing' about here is the fact that some of us like a nice clean cover with a nice PQ designation on the label. And this annoys him so ? I just can't figure out his agenda.

Eh.  Once again, you just described namisgr (and yourself, although to your credit, you do it slightly less often than you used to).

I collect all manners of books with all manners of grades and "PQ" on the label.  And if I do have an "agenda" it's only to offer a counter balance to such misinformed pejoratives as "toasty" that namisgr was repeatedly using to denigrate books that "he wouldn't buy".   It got to the point where he simply needed to be corrected.  And so I did. Hope that's okay with you.  I honestly couldn't care less what you (or he ) or anyone else deign to pay  (or overpay) for.  I subscribe to the notion that ALL of these books are treasures and worthy of being collected and cherished for future generations.  I have said that in numerous occasions, very recently even.  But again, you're just seeing the POV that meshes with yours.

Can't really I say I blame you.  That's just human nature after all.  

-J.

Edited May 10, 2017 by Jaydogrules

[Bomber-Bob]

17 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

I collect all manners of books with all manners of grades and "PQ" on the label.  And if I do have an "agenda" it's only to offer a counter balance to such misinformed pejoratives as "toasty" that namisgr was repeatedly using to denigrate books that "he wouldn't buy".   It got to the point where he simply needed to be corrected.  And so I did. Hope that's okay with you.  I honestly couldn't care less what you (or he ) or anyone else deign to pay  (or overpay) for.  I subscribe to the notion that ALL of these books are treasures and worthy of being collected and cherished for future generations.  I have said that in numerous occasions, very recently even.  But again, you're just seeing the POV that meshes with yours.

Can't really I say I blame you.  That's just human nature after all.  

-J.

I think this current discussion was started when, someone other than Namisgr, asked about the possibility of some of the book's traits having something to do with a bad press. I actually think the discussion of a book possibly having a bad press is a legitimate discussion though some frown upon it. You rarely hear a discussion about spine realignment anymore but it is happening, especially on big books. A book that has toasty edges and looks like it may have spine realignment gets called into question. It quickly evolved into a PQ discussion. It would be interesting to hear your opinion on the 'bad press' topic. We already know your opinion about the PQ !

Edited May 10, 2017 by Bomber-Bob

[Jaydogrules]

11 minutes ago, Bomber-Bob said:

I think this current discussion was started when, someone other than Namisgr, asked about the possibility of some of the book's traits having something to do with a bad press. I actually think the discussion of a book possibly having a bad press is a legitimate discussion though some frown upon it. You rarely hear a discussion about spine realignment anymore but it is happening, especially on big books. A book that has toasty edges and looks like it may have spine realignment gets called into question. It quickly evolved into a PQ discussion. It would be interesting to hear your opinion on the 'bad press' topic. We already know your opinion about the PQ !

Ok Well if we are talking about that 8.0, no that doesn't look like a "bad press", it was just stapled slightly off center (not uncommon among AF 15's).  No presser who isn't out of his mind would actually send a book like that back to a customer . 

-J.

[Bomber-Bob]

7 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

Ok Well if we are talking about that 8.0, no that doesn't look like a "bad press", it was just stapled slightly off center (not uncommon among AF 15's).  No presser who isn't out of his mind would actually send a book like that back to a customer . 

-J.

Not unless the customer asked the presser to perform this service.

[Spiderturtle]

Any chance i can get a deep discount on this 8.0 .  More discussion, please! 

[namisgr]

2 hours ago, Jaydogrules said:

I collect all manners of books with all manners of grades and "PQ" on the label.  And if I do have an "agenda" it's only to offer a counter balance to such misinformed pejoratives as "toasty" that namisgr was repeatedly using to denigrate books that "he wouldn't buy".    

-J.

Toasted.  Not a 'misinformed perjorative', and not a scanner artifact - I once owned the comic and so know for a fact that the interior covers and pages suffered from browning edge halos.  Not foxing, and not dust or sun shadows (since they occur on the inside as well as outside cover edges, and interior pages), but paper tanning.  Anyone who's collected ten cent or early twelve cent comics has seen plenty of toasted, tanned books like these, products of problematic long-term storage conditions.  There are entire famous early Silver Age collections each with hundreds of examples.

 

As for what I "wouldn't buy", I never once in the thread used the word "buy", haven't been a buyer of Silver Age comics for years now, and am not in the market for a copy of AF15, so you're still making things up as you go along.  I don't like the eye appeal of the AF15 in cgc 8.0 nearly as much as you, but that shouldn't ruffle your feathers like it has, since we're simply posting our personal opinions of it.

 

So when everyone weighs in here with their opinions on the quality of a copy of AF15 with posted or linked scans, I'll weigh in with my thoughts too, whenever I like.  And when you post errors, distortion, and misinformation, and make specious claims, such as your unsubstantiated and later refuted one about the capriciousness of page quality grading, or the  claim that page quality in the white to cream-to-off white range is judged by suppleness of the paper and not its color, or the ridiculous claim that Silver Age comics sporting tanned interior pages were sometimes printed that way, you'll get responses from those who know bs when they read it.

 

Toasted.

Edited May 10, 2017 by namisgr