Warlock First Appearance - Marvel Premiere 1

[AGGIEZ]

why should they spend time researching first, second, cameo appearances for every character under the sun?

 

Did you just fall off the turnip truck yesterday?

 

If you had any knowledge of CGC, you would know they don't do any of this, and simply wait until the appearance or storyline becomes popular enough to warrant inclusion on the label. What the CGC label says has a great deal to do with how much it sells for, and many dealers send their books in for reholdering when a "first appearance" makes its way to the label, due to movie popularity, dealer requests or collector demand. And CGC regularly changes their labels due to the above.

 

Look at the situation here, FF 67 was initially identified as:

 

1st appearance of Him

 

Lately it's changed to:

 

First appearance of Him (Warlock)

 

And all of this is good business strategy, but I cannot believe you people think CGC is a pile of simpletons without an iota of business sense. They know how important the label information is when it comes to first appearances, and you're insulting their intelligence when you say they don't care.

 

 

You don't seem to care much about insulting others intelligence...

[joe_collector]

You don't seem to care much about insulting others intelligence...

 

Sorry, but you guys are acting like CGC is some hick farmer sitting out in a field with a piece of straw in his mouth, when in reality CGC was set up by some of the top dealers, auction houses and comic book minds in the biz, and they are certainly no dummies.

 

So stop insinuating that they are.

[Heronext]

why should they spend time researching first, second, cameo appearances for every character under the sun?

 

Did you just fall off the turnip truck yesterday?

 

If you had any knowledge of CGC, you would know they don't do any of this, and simply wait until the appearance or storyline becomes popular enough to warrant inclusion on the label. What the CGC label says has a great deal to do with how much it sells for, and many dealers send their books in for reholdering when a "first appearance" makes its way to the label, due to movie popularity, dealer requests or collector demand. And CGC regularly changes their labels due to the above.

 

Look at the situation here, FF 67 was initially identified as:

 

1st appearance of Him

 

Lately it's changed to:

 

First appearance of Him (Warlock)

 

And all of this is good business strategy, but I cannot believe you people think CGC is a pile of simpletons without an iota of business sense. They know how important the label information is when it comes to first appearances, and you're insulting their intelligence when you say they don't care.

 

I would concede that they spend a small amount of effort on that, once in a while.

 

But it's nowhere near what they could be doing if they cared more.

 

CGC doesn't mind when I insult their intelligence. Like I said before, we're friends.

[shadroch]

Thor 166 July 1969

MP 1 April 1972.

 

In what world does that equal being gone for five years?

[joe_collector]

In what world does that equal being gone for five years?

 

I meant from the FF issues, which were '67, as I view the Thor issues as no more than a dead character guest-star like in MTU.

 

Even so, it was almost 3 years of NOTHING and the character was effectively dead to the world, which was why Thomas was allowed to transform him into Adam Warlock.

[AGGIEZ]

In what world does that equal being gone for five years?

 

I meant from the FF issues, which were '67, as I view the Thor issues as no more than a dead character guest-star like in MTU.

 

Even so, it was almost 3 years of NOTHING and the character was effectively dead to the world, which was why Thomas was allowed to transform him into Adam Warlock.

 

 

Well, to expand on the comparison...we've gotten about 7 years of NOTHING from Obama...!

 

 

IBTL

 

 

[joe_collector]

Well, to expand on the comarison...we've gotten about 7 years of NOTHING from Obama...!

 

[Gatsby77]

Just because JC's a total doesn't mean he's wrong.

 

Marvel Premiere 1 debuts a totally new character and launches his solo series. Yes--a solo series that was cancelled after just 8 issues, but then some fella' named Jim Starlin re-booted him and made him cool, first with that fancy Strange Tales try-out, and again fifteen years later in the lead-up to Infinity Gauntlet.

 

End result? Marvel Premiere 1 is the most important book in the Warlock mythos, But more than that, it's the first Warlock.

 

Particularly for all of you out there that believe OAAW 83 is the "first Sgt. Rock" when he's clearly the same character as in GI Combat 68, and he's named on the cover of OAAW 81 and in the story of 82.

 

Now, I'll go further and say X-Men 257 is the first Psylocke. Is it? Clearly not--there's Captain Britain 8 and New Mutants Annual 2. But it _is_ the first Psylocke anyone cared about, i.e., the Asian, psychic-knife wielding ninja assassin. Totally new character, despite the name.

[shadroch]

Who is Psylocke and why would any one care about her?

[joe_collector]

Just because JC's a total doesn't mean he's wrong.

 

Marvel Premiere 1 debuts a totally new character and launches his solo series. Yes--a solo series that was cancelled after just 8 issues, but then some fella' named Jim Starlin re-booted him and made him cool, first with that fancy Strange Tales try-out, and again fifteen years later in the lead-up to Infinity Gauntlet.

 

End result? Marvel Premiere 1 is the most important book in the Warlock mythos, But more than that, it's the first Warlock.

 

And I'll say this one more time because I think it's important:

 

Marvel Premiere #1 is the first Soul Gem.

 

If CGC identifies the first Cosmic Cube, why not the first Soul Gem/Infinity Gem? I think it's incredibly important, and a big part of Starlin's work was based on it.

[Heronext]

Just because JC's a total doesn't mean he's wrong.

 

Marvel Premiere 1 debuts a totally new character and launches his solo series. Yes--a solo series that was cancelled after just 8 issues, but then some fella' named Jim Starlin re-booted him and made him cool, first with that fancy Strange Tales try-out, and again fifteen years later in the lead-up to Infinity Gauntlet.

 

End result? Marvel Premiere 1 is the most important book in the Warlock mythos, But more than that, it's the first Warlock.

 

And I'll say this one more time because I think it's important:

 

Marvel Premiere #1 is the first Soul Gem.

 

If CGC identifies the first Cosmic Cube, why not the first Soul Gem/Infinity Gem? I think it's incredibly important, and a big part of Starlin's work was based on it.

 

Send in a raw.

 

Ask them to note that.

 

Point them to a couple of places where they can confirm it (or don't)

 

I'll bet they will note it for you. And you will be everyone's hero, because it will be that way forever.

[vaillant]

I agree with you, Marvel Premiere #1-2 are surely the first appearance of Warlock as such, but that they "have virtually nothing in common" – not at all!

 

The development of the character, albeit done by the different authors, follow a coherent logic, which puts such a peculiar being at terms with what was already implied since the beginning: Warlock, even before rechristened as such by the High Evolutionary, represents the paradigm of a "superior" human being, whose condition is at the same time a privilege and a burden.

Unlike Silver Surfer he is a "semi-artificial" man, created by man striving for perfection, but presuming to hold their own destiny in their hands.

 

There is coherence, great ideas well developed, and consistence in that development – things that have been neglected, despised and forgotten by Marvel for years now, and you can’t legitimately say "Warlock is not Him", because this is simply not true.

 

Warlock is Him, but Him was not already Warlock. And Starlin added a new level of complexity when Warlock had to come to terms with himself in his search for life…

 

The most important books will always be Fantastic Four #65-66-67, Marvel Premiere #1-2, and the Starlin issues with the more important developments – the rest is for compulsive collectors which do not care about the stories, the characters, or what the Marvel Age represented.

 

Even the Warlock Essentials TPB starts with Marvel Premiere #1, which was a smart move, as the characters of Him and Adam Warlock have virtually nothing in common.

[joe_collector]

If anyone has a Wiki account, please edit the Infinity Gems page because it incorrectly states the Soul Gem first appeared in Warlock #1 (1972) when it clearly (see image) first appeared in Marvel Premiere 1 and later, MP 2.

[vaillant]

why should they spend time researching first, second, cameo appearances for every character under the sun?

 

Did you just fall off the turnip truck yesterday?

 

If you had any knowledge of CGC, you would know they don't do any of this, and simply wait until the appearance or storyline becomes popular enough to warrant inclusion on the label. What the CGC label says has a great deal to do with how much it sells for, and many dealers send their books in for reholdering when a "first appearance" makes its way to the label, due to movie popularity, dealer requests or collector demand. And CGC regularly changes their labels due to the above.

 

Look at the situation here, FF 67 was initially identified as:

 

1st appearance of Him

 

Lately it's changed to:

 

First appearance of Him (Warlock)

 

And all of this is good business strategy, but I cannot believe you people think CGC is a pile of simpletons without an iota of business sense. They know how important the label information is when it comes to first appearances, and you're insulting their intelligence when you say they don't care.

 

 

You don't seem to care much about insulting others intelligence...

 

Agreed.

[AGGIEZ]

Just because JC's a total doesn't mean he's wrong.

 

Marvel Premiere 1 debuts a totally new character and launches his solo series. Yes--a solo series that was cancelled after just 8 issues, but then some fella' named Jim Starlin re-booted him and made him cool, first with that fancy Strange Tales try-out, and again fifteen years later in the lead-up to Infinity Gauntlet.

 

End result? Marvel Premiere 1 is the most important book in the Warlock mythos, But more than that, it's the first Warlock.

 

And I'll say this one more time because I think it's important:

 

Marvel Premiere #1 is the first Soul Gem.

 

If CGC identifies the first Cosmic Cube, why not the first Soul Gem/Infinity Gem? I think it's incredibly important, and a big part of Starlin's work was based on it.

 

Send in a raw.

 

Ask them to note that.

 

Point them to a couple of places where they can confirm it (or don't)

 

I'll bet they will note it for you. And you will be everyone's hero, because it will be that way forever.

 

 

Not always...see Alpha Flight #33. Label changed a few years back. Used to be the 1st appearance of Lady Deathstrike. I am sure a CGC discussion effected the change...but I wouldn't be surprised to see it change again. Happens all the time. Which is why I really don't think CGC puts much stock in to what the labels say...

 

 

 

 

 

[shadroch]

Wiki has the Soul Gem as first appearing in Warlock 1, not MP#1. I don't trust wiki, but I don't know how one can use it as a reference in one example and ignore it in another.

Its been years since I read those issues. Never really liked them, anyway. Liked Him and liked his new costume, but didn't care for the storyline or the art. His three part trial and death in Hulk a few years later were great and the new improved Warlock of Strange Tales was off the chart.

[joe_collector]

There is coherence, great ideas well developed, and consistence in that development – things that have been neglected, despised and forgotten by Marvel for years now, and you can’t legitimately say "Warlock is not Him", because this is simply not true.

 

I realize that Him evolved into Warlock, but I am speaking more in terms of how Warlock is a very different character, with a different costume, different powers, new Soul Gem, different environment (Counter Earth), etc., similar to The Cat - to - Tigra. They're both Greer Nelson, but are very different superheroes.

[Heronext]

Just because JC's a total doesn't mean he's wrong.

 

Marvel Premiere 1 debuts a totally new character and launches his solo series. Yes--a solo series that was cancelled after just 8 issues, but then some fella' named Jim Starlin re-booted him and made him cool, first with that fancy Strange Tales try-out, and again fifteen years later in the lead-up to Infinity Gauntlet.

 

End result? Marvel Premiere 1 is the most important book in the Warlock mythos, But more than that, it's the first Warlock.

 

And I'll say this one more time because I think it's important:

 

Marvel Premiere #1 is the first Soul Gem.

 

If CGC identifies the first Cosmic Cube, why not the first Soul Gem/Infinity Gem? I think it's incredibly important, and a big part of Starlin's work was based on it.

 

Send in a raw.

 

Ask them to note that.

 

Point them to a couple of places where they can confirm it (or don't)

 

I'll bet they will note it for you. And you will be everyone's hero, because it will be that way forever.

 

 

Not always...see Alpha Flight #33. Label changed a few years back. Used to be the 1st appearance of Lady Deathstrike. I am sure a CGC discussion effected the change...but I wouldn't be surprised to see it change again. Happens all the time. Which is why I really don't think CGC puts much stock in to what the labels say...

 

 

You're right. I suppose one day it could become "Blue pebble under Thing's foot becomes the soul gem."

[Lonzilla]

A 3 year absence in the 1st wave of "The Marvel Age" was an eternity and may as well have meant dead-and-buried, do whatever the hell you want with this throwaway character.

If Him was worth a 2nd look, "The House Of Ideas" would have used him again

Lee and Kirby made the clay, Thomas and Kane made the work of art.

 

Over the weekend I was re-reading Hulk 1976-178 (1st "death" of Adam Warlock) and in issue 178 when Adam is resurrected from his cocoon he emerges more powerful than before, a tiny springboard for what Starlin made into a masterpiece in his run on Strange Tales 178-181 / Warlock 9-15, ending with the annuals

[shadroch]

A 3 year absence in the 1st wave of "The Marvel Age" was an eternity and may as well have meant dead-and-buried, do whatever the hell you want with this throwaway character.

If Him was worth a 2nd look, "The House Of Ideas" would have used him again

Lee and Kirby made the clay, Thomas and Kane made the work of art.

 

Over the weekend I was re-reading Hulk 1976-178 (1st "death" of Adam Warlock) and in issue 178 when Adam is resurrected from his cocoon he emerges more powerful than before, a tiny springboard for what Starlin made into a masterpiece in his run on Strange Tales 178-181 / Warlock 9-15, ending with the annuals

 

The Kree, the Skrulls, The Stranger, The Collector and many other characters had long gaps in their appearances. Few of the space bound characters appeared with much regularity. There wasn't much chance of Spider-Man bumping into Him in the Dark Nebula.