Warlock First Appearance - Marvel Premiere 1

[Heronext]

Let me put this out there -

 

I think to identify the "book to have" for any given character, you have to look back in time to their earlier and earlier appearances until the character is virtually unrecognizable. If that is a last page cameo, and their next appearance is full and/or a cover appearance, then take a step forward to that. There is your "must have" book.

 

A Warlock fan who prefers MP1 to Thor 165 is like an Aerosmith fan not interested in anything before "Pump".

[Heronext]

Isn't that issue notated as Grayson becomes Nighwing, not Nightwings first app?

 

Good call! I looked up a couple slabbed copies and it says " Grayson becomes Nightwing"

It is the first appearance of Nightwing though and the market has responded.

 

Using that as an example, MP1 should say "HIM becomes Warlock"

 

 

Spoon Grayson is a different beast. With characters adopting new personas and costumes, we should be careful not to overuse the term "first appearance". Thus I think CGC is right to go with "Spoon becomes Nightwing". The fact that it has become prized is neither here nor there. That is just the market looking for something new to buy.

[bababooey]

A Warlock fan who prefers MP1 to Thor 165 is like an Aerosmith fan not interested in anything before "Pump".

 

 

zz top/eliminator works also

[Jeffro.]

Isn't that issue notated as Grayson becomes Nighwing, not Nightwings first app?

 

Good call! I looked up a couple slabbed copies and it says " Grayson becomes Nightwing"

It is the first appearance of Nightwing though and the market has responded.

 

Using that as an example, MP1 should say "HIM becomes Warlock"

 

 

Spoon Grayson is a different beast. With characters adopting new personas and costumes, we should be careful not to overuse the term "first appearance". Thus I think CGC is right to go with "Spoon becomes Nightwing". The fact that it has become prized is neither here nor there. That is just the market looking for something new to buy.

 

Still doesn't alter the fact that in MP1, HIM becomes Warlock

[Jeffro.]

It wasn't his own title. Marvel Premier was a try out book. He got a new costume, but didn't show any new powers in the issue. At the very end, he is given a jewel that later we find out is the Soul Gem. At best, this would be a cameo for the Soul Gem, not a true first appearance.

New name. New Costume.

I would annotate it- Him becomes Warlock.

Anybody who likes Warlock will get all of them anyway, so what is the tempest?

 

 

I like the debates because after all, what's new with comics that are 40 years old at this point?

 

Well, there's that Wolvie proto in Foom 2

[DavidTheDavid]

So I was looking at a recently acquired Warlock #9 and stopped on the fan letters. I'm certainly not proposing these letters as any sort of argument about this thread's topic, but it is interesting to see what a few fans contemporary to the comics thought about HIM and Warlock.

 

Check out this pdf: http://jmp.sh/v/0QRPDwFvXKPHCaimfRgt

 

[Jeffro.]

Let me put this out there -

 

I think to identify the "book to have" for any given character, you have to look back in time to their earlier and earlier appearances until the character is virtually unrecognizable. If that is a last page cameo, and their next appearance is full and/or a cover appearance, then take a step forward to that. There is your "must have" book.

 

A Warlock fan who prefers MP1 to Thor 165 is like an Aerosmith fan not interested in anything before "Pump".

 

In any event, this discussion is unlikely to bring about any change on what's considered the first app.

[joe_collector]

A Warlock fan who prefers MP1 to Thor 165 is like an Aerosmith fan not interested in anything before "Pump".

 

Assuming you never read the books or listened to the albums.

 

I find it incredibly amusing that people are trying to say there is any resemblance between the Him of FF 67/Thor 165 and the Warlock of Strange tales 178-181.

 

They are two totally different entities, and all that change happened in Marvel Premiere 1 and continued on in MP 2 and the Warlock series.

 

Honestly, I cannot even read that about Him, his Beatles haircut, Speedo swimsuit and "me like gilr, Thor stay away!" Kirby-esque insufficiently_thoughtful_person dialogue.

[joe_collector]

It wasn't his own title. Marvel Premier was a try out book. He got a new costume, but didn't show any new powers in the issue. At the very end, he is given a jewel that later we find out is the Soul Gem. At best, this would be a cameo for the Soul Gem, not a true first appearance.

 

You know, you're really trying to hard here, even for you.

 

It's like saying JIM 83 was only a cameo for Thor's hammer because it didn't spell out its origin, all of its powers, spelled the name wrong, etc. Same with Hulk 181 - it didn't tell us anything about the actual Wolverine character, and Claremont provided all that in X-Men. Same with Punisher - we knew next to nothing about him for years after ASM 129.

 

Nothing even comes fully-fleshed out in a single appearance.

 

Warlock received a SOUL GEM in Marvel Premiere #1, and its powers and history (like any person, place or thing in popular fiction) was expanded upon with future appearances. - do you *really* not grasp this very basic concept?

[joe_collector]

In any event, this discussion is unlikely to bring about any change on what's considered the first app.

 

There is no definitive source for this, and OS and CGC and other luminaries disagree on this stuff all the time, and regularly change and update first appearances. Just look at what we're talking about, they recently changed the notation on FF 67.

 

All that matters is what YOU think, and I've read all the issues multiple times, and there is no question that (admitted by Marvel) for copyright reasons they used an existing character template to create the new superhero Warlock and that MP #1 deserves the proper notation of a first appearance.

 

All the SA fanboys in creation can scream and yell all they want about some ill-conceived, Speedo-wearing, caveman-haircut weirdo from Kirby-land, but that character really has nothing in common with the Starlin Warlock we all know and love.

 

That guy started in MP 1, and always will.

[faster friends]

Why does Warlock #9 say "Premier Issue" on the cover?

[Heronext]

Why does Warlock #9 say "Premier Issue" on the cover?

 

Because it's the first appearance of Warlock

[AGGIEZ]

Why does Warlock #9 say "Premier Issue" on the cover?

 

Because it's the first appearance of Warlock

 

 

I thought MP #2 was...

[joe_collector]

Why does Warlock #9 say "Premier Issue" on the cover?

 

Because it's the first issue of the Warlock relaunch, and since it happened in #178 of an existing comic title, Marvel wanted you to know it was actually a "#1 Premiere Issue".

[faster friends]

Why does Warlock #9 say "Premier Issue" on the cover?

 

Because it's the first issue of the Warlock relaunch, and since it happened in #178 of an existing comic title, Marvel wanted you to know it was actually a "#1 Premiere Issue".

 

Hold the Phone... I know I have seen a Warlock #1. And I don't mean MP #1

[faster friends]

Was there a break after Warlock #1-8 before #9 came out?

 

[joe_collector]

Was there a break after Warlock #1-8 before #9 came out?

 

Yes, several years, and Warlock's story from #8 was (somewhat) completed in Hulk 176-178.

[joe_collector]

Hold the Phone... I know I have seen a Warlock #1. And I don't mean MP #1

 

Obviously, and here is Warlock's history up to his "death":

 

Marvel Premiere 1-2

Warlock 1-8

Hulk 176-178

Strange Tales 178-181

Warlock 9-15

MTU 55

Avengers Annual 7 and MTIO Annual 2

 

He also had a cameo in Hulk 158, but wasn't a part of the story.

[faster friends]

Hold the Phone... I know I have seen a Warlock #1. And I don't mean MP #1

 

Obviously, and here is Warlock's history up to his "death":

 

Marvel Premiere 1-2

Warlock 1-8

Hulk 176-178

Strange Tales 178-181

Warlock 9-15

MTU 55

Avengers Annual 7 and MTIO Annual 2

 

He also had a cameo in Hulk 158, but wasn't a part of the story.

 

Thx for the recap

[shadroch]

He also makes a cameo in Avengers 118, the finale of the Avengers/Defenders War.

Plus FF 66/67 and Thor 165/166

 

After Warlock was canceled with issue 8, the story was finished in Hulk. Jim Starlin introduced a vastly different Adam Warlock in Strange Tales 178 and after few issues, the storyline returned to the Warlock title starting with issue 9. There is a gap of several years between issues8 and 9.