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Warlock First Appearance - Marvel Premiere 1

Started by joe_collector,

250 posts in this topic

Wall-Crawler

Wall-Crawler

Posted
Posted
Also, as Warlock is not named until the final panel on MP#1, yes it is for sure the Origin of Warlock but I doub't you could call it a first appearance as he goes by "HIM" right up until that last panel.

 

lol, you're joking right - was your copy missing both the cover and the first page? lollollol

 

Ok, yeah you got me there - Whoops :blush: ...Still does not invalidate my other comments though... ;)

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jjonahjameson1

jjonahjameson1

Posted
Posted

I see lots of passion about this topic and its been interesting to read everyone's posts.

 

So what's the next step with this, JC? Are you going to contact CGC with your argument and ask them to reconsider MP1? Who at CGC makes the yea or nay decision on this matter?

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Silverdream

Silverdream

Posted
Posted

I tend to lean on JC's side of this discussion, I really think MP#1 should say something other than simply the "origin of Warlock". I think it should say "1st app of Warlock " Previously "him" That's just my opinion.

 

 

What I don't understand JC, and please don't take this the wrong way.

 

 

You have a problem with them going back 3 years and adding (warlock) to Thor 165.

 

 

On the other side, You want them to go back and notate the mysterious Glowing rock H.E. gives Warlock on the label of MP # 1 as the first app of the " soul gem" even though we are not informed of what they are for a few months/years.

 

Where are they first called the Soul Gems and when do we really get an idea of how powerfull they truly are? wouldnt that be the first appearance of the soul gems? Seems like the same type of argument.

 

 

Although I agree with the premise of your OP. I am baffled and exhausted at trying to figure out where you stand on things.

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AGGIEZ

AGGIEZ

Posted
Posted
Although I agree with the premise of your OP. I am baffled and exhausted at trying to figure out where you stand on things.

 

 

Join the club...

 

I agree that the label on MP #1 should be changed, but I just don't feel like it should say "1st appearance of Adam Warlock". Maybe:

 

Him becomes Warlock.

Origin of Warlock.

Hulk, Thor and Fantastic Four appearance in flashback

 

I think Thors #165 is appropriately labeled "1st full appearance of Him (Warlock)" and is the first full appearance of the character, albiet without a costume, a formal name and a rock on his forehead. (see TTA #27 for comparison argument)

 

And for the record, I am not financially attached to any of these books. I have CGC 7.0 copies of FF #67, Thor #165 and MP #1.

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Lonzilla

Lonzilla

Posted
Posted

I'm not "invested" in it since I don't have any copies of my Warlock collection slabbed, though my best copy of MP 1 will be slabbed eventually along with my highest grade Starlins (have multiples and still read the mid grade ones often)

Why doesn't Marvel Super-heroes #12 command a much higher price than it does? It's the 1st appearance of Captain Marvel, major character.

Yet again we can thank Roy Thomas and Gil Kane for revamping a throwaway character and doing something amazing

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DavidTheDavid

DavidTheDavid

Posted
Posted
Lot of jerkish behavior in this thread and it's distracting from what should be a good discussion

+1

 

Despite my interest, I'm a bit dismayed that what should be a fun topic has taken to such boorish behavior.

 

That said, I'll chime in. As has been pointed out, MP 1 establishes a loose narrative connection on its first page. It's a quick device meant to create a linkage between the character HIM which is being recast as Warlock. Again as someone else has already noted, the thematic undertones of Warlock's divine-like nature were already present in HIM, as well as other token attachments such as the Cocoon. Because of that, I can't say that MP 1 is the first appearance of Warlock. I think that those comments calling for a notation for MP 1 along the lines of "First appearance of Warlock, formerly known as HIM" are the best and most reasonable solution.

 

To consider CGC Key Comment notations as some sort of definitive resource is, I think, erroneous. If there were greater transparency to that process, it might become more acceptable, but there's too much inconsistency and opacity for me to consider those comments as somehow definitive.

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whetteon

whetteon

Posted
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What about Robin/Nightwing? Same guy, same abilities, new costume, new name. Two different characters with Tales of the Teen Titans being the 1st app of Nightwing.

 

Him/Warlock - Same guy, new abilities, new costume, new name. Any yet MP1 is not the first appearance of Warlock.

 

hm

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Jeffro.

Jeffro.

Posted
Posted
Isn't that issue notated as Grayson becomes Nighwing, not Nightwings first app?

 

Good call! I looked up a couple slabbed copies and it says " Grayson becomes Nightwing"

It is the first appearance of Nightwing though and the market has responded.

 

Using that as an example, MP1 should say "HIM becomes Warlock"

 

 

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whetteon

whetteon

Posted
Posted
Isn't that issue notated as Grayson becomes Nighwing, not Nightwings first app?

 

Good call! I looked up a couple slabbed copies and it says " Grayson becomes Nightwing"

It is the first appearance of Nightwing though and the market has responded.

 

Using that as an example, MP1 should say "HIM becomes Warlock"

 

 

:ohnoez: We have a game changer!

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Mijael.Levy

Mijael.Levy

Posted
Posted
Isn't that issue notated as Grayson becomes Nighwing, not Nightwings first app?

 

Good call! I looked up a couple slabbed copies and it says " Grayson becomes Nightwing"

It is the first appearance of Nightwing though and the market has responded.

 

Using that as an example, MP1 should say "HIM becomes Warlock"

 

 

And marked decided TOTT 44 is the first app of Nightwing ..

 

 

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Lonzilla

Lonzilla

Posted
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If Robin / Grayson / Nightwing were minor characters who had a 3 year lapse between appearances, and only a couple appearances at that there'd be more of a debate on that issue?

Here's another: CGC notes on the label of Hulk 234 "Marvel Man changes his name to Quasar"

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joe_collector

joe_collector

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I would remind you all that Nightwing just got a new costume and name, which is nothing, hence the "Robin becomes Nightwing".

 

Warlock is more along the lines of a totally new character who got new powers, a new Soul Gem, new personality, his own title, etc. (along with new costume/name) similar to Tigra, which CGC notes as "1st appearance of Tigra (formerly Cat).

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shadroch

shadroch

Posted
Posted

It wasn't his own title. Marvel Premier was a try out book. He got a new costume, but didn't show any new powers in the issue. At the very end, he is given a jewel that later we find out is the Soul Gem. At best, this would be a cameo for the Soul Gem, not a true first appearance.

New name. New Costume.

I would annotate it- Him becomes Warlock.

Anybody who likes Warlock will get all of them anyway, so what is the tempest?

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Mijael.Levy

Mijael.Levy

Posted
Posted
It wasn't his own title. Marvel Premier was a try out book. He got a new costume, but didn't show any new powers in the issue. At the very end, he is given a jewel that later we find out is the Soul Gem. At best, this would be a cameo for the Soul Gem, not a true first appearance.

New name. New Costume.

I would annotate it- Him becomes Warlock.

Anybody who likes Warlock will get all of them anyway, so what is the tempest?

 

As a reader i have no doubt that MP is great but as an investor i want to know where to put my money :

 

 

FF ?

 

Thor?

 

or MP?

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whetteon

whetteon

Posted
Posted
It wasn't his own title. Marvel Premier was a try out book. He got a new costume, but didn't show any new powers in the issue. At the very end, he is given a jewel that later we find out is the Soul Gem. At best, this would be a cameo for the Soul Gem, not a true first appearance.

New name. New Costume.

I would annotate it- Him becomes Warlock.

Anybody who likes Warlock will get all of them anyway, so what is the tempest?

 

(shrug)

 

I like the debates because after all, what's new with comics that are 40 years old at this point? :shy:

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shadroch

shadroch

Posted
Posted
It wasn't his own title. Marvel Premier was a try out book. He got a new costume, but didn't show any new powers in the issue. At the very end, he is given a jewel that later we find out is the Soul Gem. At best, this would be a cameo for the Soul Gem, not a true first appearance.

New name. New Costume.

I would annotate it- Him becomes Warlock.

Anybody who likes Warlock will get all of them anyway, so what is the tempest?

 

As a reader i have no doubt that MP is great but as an investor i want to know where to put my money :

 

 

FF ?

 

Thor?

 

or MP?

 

Iron Man55 :makepoint:

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