Pedigree

[Sqeggs]

Partly that pedigree copies are often high grade (sometimes the highest graded copies available), partly that people are intrigued by the stories behind some pedigrees, and partly that people are often looking for a focus to their collections (other than just collecting runs of titles). With respect to the last point, some people try to have at least one copy of each major pedigree in their collection.

 

In the end, it's like anything else: Market prices reflect collectors' relative demand for different books. Some pedigrees sell at a substantial premium, while others sell at a small premium or even none at all.

[namisgr]

Can someone please explain to me the advantages of a pedigree'd book? Rather why do they demand a premium?

 

As I understand it, which is probably wrong, a pedigree merely indicates that little Johnny collected comics when he was young and kept them in good shape. Now someone found little Johnny's collection of several old books and they are now Little Johhny's Comics Pedigree and are more valuable.

 

Why would "Random Comic #1" graded a 9.0 be worth less than Little Johnnies "Random Comic #1" graded 9.0?

 

Because the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

 

In other words, for a Silver Age Marvel collector given his pick of any of the 12 high grade copies of Superhero #xxx, the one that stands out above the rest is the Pedigree copy that came from the same original owner collection that has a slew of high grade copies of the other superhero books published around that time. The more exceptional the Pedigree is as a whole, the cooler it is to own a copy of Superhero #xxx from it.

[stanley1883]

Someone just sent me a PM about pedigrees, He's what I wrote. It kind of sums up some aspects of it.

 

"I've always loved Church books, they certainly are special, as are many of the other nicer pedigrees; Chicago, SF, Allentown, etc.

 

There will always be a book here or there that are found and grade out higher than a Church or other pedigree, that's to be expected. However, I'd bet that if you looked at all the Highest Graded Golden Age books that a very large percent of them would be Pedigree copies. As far as value goes, true collectors who love the hobby know that pedigrees are special & are SIMPLY A WAY TO INFLATE THE PRICE. Investors simply look at the big number on the holder & bid accordingly."

 

Fixed that for you. That "True Collector" nonsense is trash.

[Timely]

Someone just sent me a PM about pedigrees, He's what I wrote. It kind of sums up some aspects of it.

 

"I've always loved Church books, they certainly are special, as are many of the other nicer pedigrees; Chicago, SF, Allentown, etc.

 

There will always be a book here or there that are found and grade out higher than a Church or other pedigree, that's to be expected. However, I'd bet that if you looked at all the Highest Graded Golden Age books that a very large percent of them would be Pedigree copies. As far as value goes, true collectors who love the hobby know that pedigrees are special & are "worth more". Investors simply look at the big number on the holder & bid accordingly."

 

Fixed that for you. That "True Collector" nonsense is trash.

 

When I say "true collector", I mean versus someone who comes into the hobby purely as an investor looking to make a buck. Try not to take too much time twisting my words. (thumbs u

[adamstrange]

There was an issue of Comic Book Marketplace on pedigrees back in the 90s and we received permission from Gemstone to share it on this site but when I just now checked the thread it looks like the scans have been deleted.

 

I do have one of the articles saved off in text form that I can post.

 

 

[slym2none]

Rude. You can have your opinion, but unless done in a joking way, changing someone's post to reflect your opinion and degrade theirs is rude. You have to let the other person have their opinion as well.

 

Unless someone is holding your feet to the fire about buying one of these pedigrees, you probably should leave it at this one post. If someone is holding your feet to the fire, you have larger concerns.

 

 

 

-slym

[adamstrange]

This was one of a dozen articles in CBM and reflects the views of only one of the people that contributed.

 

Pedigree Thoughts

 

Mile High. White Mountain. Gaines’ file copy. Words that conjure up thoughts of either heavenly perfection or Madison Avenue hype. It was not until my first trip to the San Diego Comic Show that I saw perfection in the form of the Mile High pre-Batman issues of Detective Comics. I asked the owner to take them down and show them to me just so that I could say that I saw and actually held one. They were so incredibly bright and fresh, looking barely a year old, though I knew they were more than fifty. I experienced Madison Avenue more recently when I viewed a dull, browning Mile High book that looked like it was nearer the end of its life than the beginning.

 

For the first seven years of collecting I never bought a pedigree comic. Not only did I rarely see them, but when I did they were outragously priced. Not that I minded paying over guide, I just didn’t want to be the “sap” paying way over guide. Yet in the past two years I have bought a number of books from pedigree collections. In the following paragraphs I’ll try to give you the questions that I had to ask (and answer) before I started buying pedigree books.

 

What is a pedigree?

 

To be worthy of a pedigree a book must be part of a collection that has the following characteristics:

• one original owner that bought or received all of the books

• minimal structural defects (there are minimal tears, creases, stresses)

• intense ink reflectivity (the cover is glossy)

• white/off-white pages

• must be 1963 or earlier

• sufficient quantity of books which uniformly posses these qualities

 

Whenever I refer to the word pedigree in the following answers I refer to collections that meet all of the these conditions.

 

What if someone assembled a collection by purchasing books from others?

 

For me, if it’s not one original owner then it’s a provenance, not a pedigree. Buying an Overstreet book, for example, does NOT guarantee that the book was actually bought off the newstand by Bob Overstreet or that it is a high-grade copy. I feel privileged to have some of his books in my collection (Bob -- they are in a nice home and have been well taken care of) because of their connection to someone who has such an important impact on the hobby, but I didn’t pay any extra for it.

 

Why not include books after 1963?

 

Books after 1963 in high-grade are much more common than books in high-grade before 1963. It doesn’t seem that important to track pedigrees when there are so many. Books before 1964 in high-grade, however, are often from one of the pedigree collections. That doesn’t mean that there isn’t a better copy out there, it’s just that I don’t see them any better very often.

 

What do you mean by “sufficient quantity”?

 

I’m not sure. It’s like the classic philosophical problem of defining a beard: how many hairs and of what length are required to have a beard? You’ll know it when you see it. Trying to track every 5, 10, or 25 book collection that comes along just doesn’t seem very practical to me.

 

How many pedigree collections are there?

 

I don’t know. I am sure there are more out there than I know about but certainly fewer than are advertised as pedigree. I have heard of several pedigree collections that were purchased by only one or two individuals and so have never gotten the publicity that the Mile High collection did.

 

Why are there so many collections advertised as pedigree?

 

This question is pretty easy. Sellers think collectors will pay more for a book if it comes from a named collection. I’ve seen collections that were really just low-grade to mid-grade books collected by a single owner being touted as a pedigree. I’m always interested in the story behind the original owner and how the collection was found by the dealer, but it doesn’t affect my decision on whether on not to buy the books.

 

There have also been collections that were high-grade but did not have great page quality or cover gloss. Since this is the usual condition for non-pedigree, high-grade books this isn’t enough to command a premium. Sometimes a pedigree collection will have a book in this condition -- in which case it isn’t worth a premium either.

In defense of advertisers, however, I think it can still be useful to know if book came from a collection of books that have uniform qualities. If someone tells me that a book is a Mohawk Valley and has the typical qualities of the collection (good gloss, light tanning on bottom edge, average pages), then I am know more about the condition than if I just knew the grade.

 

Are pedigrees over-graded?

 

It’s not untypical to see over-grading on pedigrees. In one sense these books have great cover gloss and page quality that is hard to factor with structural quality into a single grade. Yes, I know there has been an attempt to do this but each of these qualities is difficult enough to standardize on its own without the added complexity of trying to combine them together. Even if someone defines each of these charateristics for a book it can still be hard to visualize the true condition of a pedigree. Sometimes the book has to be seen to be understood.

I’ve also seen low-grade, dull, brown-paged copies of pedigree books advertised at multiples of guide for no reason other than they were part of pedigree collection. This seems silly to me.

 

How do pedigrees compare to non-pedigrees?

 

It depends. I have even seen a case where I liked the very good pedigree better than I liked the VF+ non-pedigree because the pedigree was so much prettier. The pedigree copy had white pages and a light-grey cover unaffected by the usual yellow. I ended up getting the VF+ non-pedigree, but I still don’t know whether or not I made the right decision.

 

I have also seen comics that aren’t pedigree but are trully better copies in every way including page quality, cover gloss, and structure.

If the non-pedigree is a better copy than a pedigree is it worth more?

It would be to me. Although with the way that people price comics sometimes I wouldn’t buy either the pedigree or the non-pedigree.

 

What about distribution marks?

 

If you don’t like distribution dates or other marks on books you probably won’t like pedigrees. Mile Highs usually have distribution dates and quantities on the top part of the cover. White Mountains often have a distribution year on the cover and the distribution date on the first page. These marks don’t bother me at all as long as the book is exceptional in every other way. Besides, they provide additional confirmation that the book is part of a particular collection.

 

How will people know which books are actually pedigrees 20 years from now?

 

It will be harder and harder to trace the ownership of pedigrees as the years go by. I only buy books that I plan to keep forever so I’m not too worried about this question. Still, I pay attention because sometimes I have to sell books so that I can buy other books that I want more. As long as the condition on the pedigree is exceptional, I am not overly concerned about trying to prove that it is part of a pedigree.

 

What are pedigree comics worth?

 

I’ve given up trying to figure out what comics are “worth”. I only know what comics are worth to me. Sometimes that value is a multiple of guide and sometimes it’s a fraction of the guide -- depending on how scarce it is and desirable it is to me.

 

Why buy pedigree comics?

 

I want to see comic books the way that their creators intended to see them. I want to see them the way they were when they came out on the newstand. I want to see the colors and art unaffected by yellowing and wear. I want a book that knocks my socks off.

 

I do not understand people who have written to CBM complaining about people that buy high-grade comics as if they love comics less than low-grade collectors. Carried to its logical conclusion, we should have left the Sistine Chapel covered with centuries of dirt and grime so we can appreciate it more. I buy high-grade comics because I love comics. Period.

 

I have nothing against collecting lower grade comics. My collection consists of books ranging from poor to near mint, and only death or a better copy is going to pry the poor copies out of my hands. I could collect only pedigree copies, but because of their price and scarcity, that would mean a much smaller and less interesting collection.

 

Can you actually read pedigree comics?

 

Yes, Virginia, you can read pedigree comics. Although I generally collect high-grade comics I read all of them -- Mile Highs and Gaines’ file copies included. Granted, I read them very carefully (putting them inside another magazine to avoid finger prints and never fully opening the book), but it does not inhibit my enjoyment of the stories. I actually prefer reading real comics over reading reprints -- if there are any even available.

 

(OK, I confess. There is one of my comics that I haven’t and won’t read. It’s one of the greatest covers of all time and the copy that I have is so perfect and fragile that I can’t bring myself to read it. Besides, it’s available in reprint.)

[DrWatson]

Thanks.

 

[Mark 1]

Provenance and mostly high grade.....that is all.