If Captain America #1 surpasses Marvel #1, Can Tec #27 surpass Action #1?

[nearmint]

over the past 10 years, the benchmarks have clearly been established, and no "movies" or Tv shows, or soapbox oratating(I know) will change the now accepted value standard (imo)

 

I agree. Golden Age values don't seem to be affected by movies/TV the way values of SA and later are. GA is just a different animal.

[Wayne-Tec]

If you compare the two, it would look something like this...

 

Box Office

 

Batman has out-performed Superman by a substantial margin. So much so, that DC won't even give Superman a second chance at a solo movie, opting to add Batman to the mix.

 

Edge: Batman

 

Comic Book Sales

 

11 Batman-universe titles are currently out-selling the top Superman solo book, ranked 48th. Batman holds to Top-2 spots in all of comics, not just DC.

 

Edge: Batman

 

Video Games

 

Arkham Asylum, Arkham City and Arkham Origins are three of the most successful superhero games ever produced. Not only has there never been a great Superman game, but the infamous Superman 64 is considered by many to be the worst video game, of any genre, ever produced.

 

Edge: Batman

 

anyone that has paid any attention to that market, knows the answer...

 

action 1 is "the" grail....tec 27 will unfortunately, in today's world, finish second...

 

doesn't discount what occured in the past...but it is just that, the past...

 

over the past 10 years, the benchmarks have clearly been established, and no "movies" or Tv shows, or soapbox oratating(I know) will change the now accepted value standard (imo)

 

I greatly respect your opinion Rick and I do not doubt that all of the above holds true today, and likely, in the near future as well. But IMO, a lot of what fuels the train of thought you mentioned is coming from collectors of older generations...most of which are likely in their 40's-60's. But in another 10-15 years or so, collectors...who grew up when Batman began to peak and absolutely blow Superman out of the water in terms of both popularity and commercial...will begin to hit their 40's.

 

That generation, and the younger ones coming of age now that will follow...have overwhelmingly favored Batman. History is and always will be important. Captain Marvel was once the best selling character in comics and that fact has kept Whiz #2 amongst some of the more valuable books in our hobby. But as time goes on, I wouldn't be surprised to see more and more collectors wanting to invest in characters they love...more so than characters that used to be loved more.

 

Fantastic Four #1 is scarcer and more historically significant than Amazing Fantasy #15.

 

Marvel Comics #1 is scarcer and more historically significant than Captain America #1.

 

I'm just saying that as we continue to see with other examples, I wouldn't be surprised to see the next generation of collectors gravitate towards what is relevant and what they love.

 

[Wayne-Tec]

over the past 10 years, the benchmarks have clearly been established, and no "movies" or Tv shows, or soapbox oratating(I know) will change the now accepted value standard (imo)

 

I agree. Golden Age values don't seem to be affected by movies/TV the way values of SA and later are. GA is just a different animal.

 

IMO, that has a lot to do with many GA characters not having a current representation in Hollywood.

 

The only Marvel example is Captain America.

 

How much has Cap #1 moved up in value since 2011 when his first movie came out?

 

Now, where does Cap #1 stand in comparison to Marvel #1?

 

Batman has been incredibly successful in Hollywood and the values of Tec #27, Batman #1 and Pre-Robin Tecs have exploded.

 

Superman books continue to do incredibly well also, but as I mentioned in a previous post, I suspect many collectors who buy those books are in their 40's to 60's and come from a generation when Superman was more loved.

[nearmint]

 

I greatly respect your opinion Rick and I do not doubt that all of the above holds true today, and likely, in the near future as well. But IMO, a lot of what fuels the train of thought you mentioned is coming from collectors of older generations...most of which are likely in their 40's-60's.

 

Dude, you just called Rick old.

[G.A.tor]

the problem with that line of thought is that batman has had the edge in all those areas for what seems like 20+ years (more than enough time to change folks buying habits), and yet Action 1 has beaten tec 27 in all those years (sales wise)

 

and very few of the current generation will appreciate or actively seek out the "golden " age originals (as nearmint stated)...

 

the argument is valid for general appeal, but won't apply to those 2 book sales ...the historical significance of action 1 will trump all (and likely always had, regardless of what the price guide might have stated at different times in the past )

[G.A.tor]

 

I greatly respect your opinion Rick and I do not doubt that all of the above holds true today, and likely, in the near future as well. But IMO, a lot of what fuels the train of thought you mentioned is coming from collectors of older generations...most of which are likely in their 40's-60's.

 

Dude, you just called Rick old.

[Wayne-Tec]

the problem with that line of thought is that batman has had the edge in all those areas for what seems like 20+ years (more than enough time to change folks buying habits), and yet Action 1 has beaten tec 27 in all those years (sales wise)

 

and very few of the current generation will appreciate or actively seek out the "golden " age originals (as nearmint stated)...

 

the argument is valid for general appeal, but won't apply to those 2 book sales

 

Although Batman has surpassed Superman in terms of popularity and commercial success for 20+ years now, many collectors of GA books still grew up before Batman exploded in popularity.

 

Kids who were 10 when Tim Burton's Batman hit theaters in 1989 are only 35 today...and I would suspect that many Action #1/Tec #27 owners are older than 40.

 

Most 35 year old collectors don't have $100,000+ to drop on a low grade example of either book.

[G.A.tor]

the problem with that line of thought is that batman has had the edge in all those areas for what seems like 20+ years (more than enough time to change folks buying habits), and yet Action 1 has beaten tec 27 in all those years (sales wise)

 

and very few of the current generation will appreciate or actively seek out the "golden " age originals (as nearmint stated)...

 

the argument is valid for general appeal, but won't apply to those 2 book sales

 

Although Batman has surpassed Superman in terms of popularity and commercial success for 20+ years now, many collectors of GA books still grew up before Batman exploded in popularity.

 

Kids who were 10 when Tim Burton's Batman hit theaters in 1989 are only 35 today...and I would suspect that many Action #1/Tec #27 owners are older than 40.

 

Most 35 year old collectors don't have $100,000+ to drop on a low grade example of either book.

as you stated, a lot of it has to due with the affluency or ability to purchase these 6 figure grails...

 

I love batman way more than superman , and I was the "detective27kid" for years, but I would still take an action 1 over tec 27, all things being equal

[nearmint]

Although Batman has surpassed Superman in terms of popularity and commercial success for 20+ years now, many collectors of GA books still grew up before Batman exploded in popularity.

 

 

Well, sure, but they still experienced that explosion of popularity. And yet, Action #1 remains top dog.

[peewee22]

the problem with that line of thought is that batman has had the edge in all those areas for what seems like 20+ years (more than enough time to change folks buying habits), and yet Action 1 has beaten tec 27 in all those years (sales wise)

 

and very few of the current generation will appreciate or actively seek out the "golden " age originals (as nearmint stated)...

 

the argument is valid for general appeal, but won't apply to those 2 book sales

 

Although Batman has surpassed Superman in terms of popularity and commercial success for 20+ years now, many collectors of GA books still grew up before Batman exploded in popularity.

 

Kids who were 10 when Tim Burton's Batman hit theaters in 1989 are only 35 today...and I would suspect that many Action #1/Tec #27 owners are older than 40.

 

Most 35 year old collectors don't have $100,000+ to drop on a low grade example of either book.

 

Guys, has there ever been an Action 1 thread on the boards?

[rob_react]

FWIW, I don't think the comparison of Marvel #1 and Captain America #1 versus Detective 27 and Action 1 is all that straightforward.

 

Marvel #1 is a book with problems of its own in recent years (in terms of value) so while Captain America #1 has been ascendant (as it should be since it's probably the most important GA Timely in today's media and comics landscape) Marvel #1 has been floundering in terms of value throughout the CGC era.

 

Action #1 and Detective #27 have both been super strong for a long time.

 

That said, I don't think that Action #1 is bulletproof. Batman owns Superman right now in the public's mind. Will that filter down to their first appearances? I don't know, but I know it's possible.

[nearmint]

the problem with that line of thought is that batman has had the edge in all those areas for what seems like 20+ years (more than enough time to change folks buying habits), and yet Action 1 has beaten tec 27 in all those years (sales wise)

 

and very few of the current generation will appreciate or actively seek out the "golden " age originals (as nearmint stated)...

 

the argument is valid for general appeal, but won't apply to those 2 book sales

 

Although Batman has surpassed Superman in terms of popularity and commercial success for 20+ years now, many collectors of GA books still grew up before Batman exploded in popularity.

 

Kids who were 10 when Tim Burton's Batman hit theaters in 1989 are only 35 today...and I would suspect that many Action #1/Tec #27 owners are older than 40.

 

Most 35 year old collectors don't have $100,000+ to drop on a low grade example of either book.

as you stated, a lot of it has to due with the affluency or ability to purchase these 6 figure grails...

 

I love batman way more than superman , and I was the "detective27kid" for years, but I would still take an action 1 over tec 27, all things being equal

 

Heck, I know a guy who has a detective27.com website and collects Superman.

[G.A.tor]

the problem with that line of thought is that batman has had the edge in all those areas for what seems like 20+ years (more than enough time to change folks buying habits), and yet Action 1 has beaten tec 27 in all those years (sales wise)

 

and very few of the current generation will appreciate or actively seek out the "golden " age originals (as nearmint stated)...

 

the argument is valid for general appeal, but won't apply to those 2 book sales

 

Although Batman has surpassed Superman in terms of popularity and commercial success for 20+ years now, many collectors of GA books still grew up before Batman exploded in popularity.

 

Kids who were 10 when Tim Burton's Batman hit theaters in 1989 are only 35 today...and I would suspect that many Action #1/Tec #27 owners are older than 40.

 

Most 35 year old collectors don't have $100,000+ to drop on a low grade example of either book.

as you stated, a lot of it has to due with the affluency or ability to purchase these 6 figure grails...

 

I love batman way more than superman , and I was the "detective27kid" for years, but I would still take an action 1 over tec 27, all things being equal

 

Heck, I know a guy who has a detective27.com website and collects Superman.

hehe

[Wayne-Tec]

very few of the current generation will appreciate or actively seek out the "golden " age originals

 

This rings true as of 2014. But as I mentioned above, most young collectors don't make enough money to invest into the Top GA books. It's not just about older collectors loving the hobby more (although I suspect they do), but as a general rule of thumb, younger collectors have much less money to spend.

 

When collectors who are in their 20's now hit their 40's and 50's, that may be a different story. That's the generation that has overwhelmingly favored Batman and also, the same gaming generations that is learning about GA comic characters by playing the video games. They may not be of age or maturation to want to run out and by GA books right now, but at least they know how characters like Hugo Strange are due to their fantastic representation in the gaming world.

[G.A.tor]

FWIW, I don't think the comparison of Marvel #1 and Captain America #1 versus Detective 27 and Action 1 is all that straightforward.

 

Marvel #1 is a book with problems of its own in recent years (in terms of value) so while Captain America #1 has been ascendant (as it should be since it's probably the most important GA Timely in today's media and comics landscape) Marvel #1 has been floundering in terms of value throughout the CGC era.

 

Action #1 and Detective #27 have both been super strong for a long time.

 

That said, I don't think that Action #1 is bulletproof. Batman owns Superman right now in the public's mind. Will that filter down to their first appearances? I don't know, but I know it's possible.

they are very close now, but the edge will likely still remain with action 1, simply based on historical importance...

 

another thing to consider, is that folks that can afford and action 1, can likely also afford a tec 27....

 

but, I Think if you ask 100 learned ga collectors, to choose one or the other (all things being considered), action 1 gets picked more often than not... again, just my opinion

[rob_react]

FWIW, I don't think the comparison of Marvel #1 and Captain America #1 versus Detective 27 and Action 1 is all that straightforward.

 

Marvel #1 is a book with problems of its own in recent years (in terms of value) so while Captain America #1 has been ascendant (as it should be since it's probably the most important GA Timely in today's media and comics landscape) Marvel #1 has been floundering in terms of value throughout the CGC era.

 

Action #1 and Detective #27 have both been super strong for a long time.

 

That said, I don't think that Action #1 is bulletproof. Batman owns Superman right now in the public's mind. Will that filter down to their first appearances? I don't know, but I know it's possible.

they are very close now, but the edge will likely still remain with action 1, simply based on historical importance...

 

another thing to consider, is that folks that can afford and action 1, can likely also afford a tec 27....

 

but, I Think if you ask 100 learned ga collectors, to choose one or the other (all things being considered), action 1 gets picked more often than not... again, just my opinion

 

I don't disagree with you (although I would pick Detective 27 without a second's hesitation) I'm just saying I don't think it's bulletproof in the #1 slot.

[Wayne-Tec]

the problem with that line of thought is that batman has had the edge in all those areas for what seems like 20+ years (more than enough time to change folks buying habits), and yet Action 1 has beaten tec 27 in all those years (sales wise)

 

and very few of the current generation will appreciate or actively seek out the "golden " age originals (as nearmint stated)...

 

the argument is valid for general appeal, but won't apply to those 2 book sales

 

Although Batman has surpassed Superman in terms of popularity and commercial success for 20+ years now, many collectors of GA books still grew up before Batman exploded in popularity.

 

Kids who were 10 when Tim Burton's Batman hit theaters in 1989 are only 35 today...and I would suspect that many Action #1/Tec #27 owners are older than 40.

 

Most 35 year old collectors don't have $100,000+ to drop on a low grade example of either book.

as you stated, a lot of it has to due with the affluency or ability to purchase these 6 figure grails...

 

I love batman way more than superman , and I was the "detective27kid" for years, but I would still take an action 1 over tec 27, all things being equal

 

Despite my posing the question to the contrary in this thread, I would too Rick.

 

But I'm a young collector who spent many, many years reading through old price guides, reading books, reading DC Archives and developing an appreciation for the history of comics, and the history of our hobby. I also like the Superman character a lot more than most of my generation. It's frustrating not to see him better represented for modern day.

 

Still, I could certainly see why collectors might find Tec #27 to be the more desirable book of the two. And by looking at the modern-day performance of both characters through various forms of media, I wouldn't be surprised to see Tec #27 rise to the top.

[rjpb]

Twenty years from now Superman could still be an iconic character that everybody recognizes, but like Mickey Mouse more apt to show up on children's clothing than in new stories via film, television and comics, whereas Archie could be ubiquitous, with movies. animated shows and the most popular comic being printed, and Pep #22 could end up being more valuable than Action #1, not that I think this will happen, but there are all sorts of possible scenarios in which Action #1 could fall from it's perch, at least briefly, as it has before against not just Tec 27, but IIRC, against Marvel #1 at one point.

[Wayne-Tec]

FWIW, I don't think the comparison of Marvel #1 and Captain America #1 versus Detective 27 and Action 1 is all that straightforward.

 

Marvel #1 is a book with problems of its own in recent years (in terms of value) so while Captain America #1 has been ascendant (as it should be since it's probably the most important GA Timely in today's media and comics landscape) Marvel #1 has been floundering in terms of value throughout the CGC era.

 

Action #1 and Detective #27 have both been super strong for a long time.

 

That said, I don't think that Action #1 is bulletproof. Batman owns Superman right now in the public's mind. Will that filter down to their first appearances? I don't know, but I know it's possible.

they are very close now, but the edge will likely still remain with action 1, simply based on historical importance...

 

another thing to consider, is that folks that can afford and action 1, can likely also afford a tec 27....

 

but, I Think if you ask 100 learned ga collectors, to choose one or the other (all things being considered), action 1 gets picked more often than not... again, just my opinion

 

And you're probably right.

 

But what happens when the generation who grew up as Batman's popularity peaked...begin to gather greater financial spending power?

 

As you stated, the two books are close as of 2014.

 

But we've already seen other examples (Cap #1/Marvel #1 -- FF #1/AF #15) where the more desirable book featuring a more loved character surpasses those of historical importance.

 

The fact that younger generations are currently less interested in GA comics might actually strengthen my point. Eventually, those are the people who will have the spending power to buy these books.

 

And I'm not convinced that the historical importance of a medium that they already fail to appreciate will supersede the desire of owning the first appearance of a character they loved across countless forms of modern-day exposure.

[rob_react]

So it's agreed. Superman sucks and Batman rules.