If Captain America #1 surpasses Marvel #1, Can Tec #27 surpass Action #1?

[Ameri]

Sorry... I don't read any posts without some sentence breaks

 

funny

[Dark Knight]

I'm a bigger Batman fan than Superman and my holy grail of course would be the Tec 27 regardless of the cost and/or appreciation in value compared to an Action 1. Who knows if and when a Tec 27 could overtake an Action 1 in most valuable key, but the crown still belongs to Action 1 as speak.

 

Action 1 paved the way for other superheroes to follow. Without Superman there wouldnt be Batman because Batman was created to compete against Superman in terms of comic book sales. Action 1 contains both origin and 1st appearance of Superman, while Tec 27 is just the 1st app. of Batman. If Tec 27 also had an origin story, i think it would give Action 1 a run for its money because of Batman's popularity among younger collectors.

[jgallo]

the problem with that line of thought is that batman has had the edge in all those areas for what seems like 20+ years (more than enough time to change folks buying habits), and yet Action 1 has beaten tec 27 in all those years (sales wise)

 

and very few of the current generation will appreciate or actively seek out the "golden " age originals (as nearmint stated)...

 

the argument is valid for general appeal, but won't apply to those 2 book sales ...the historical significance of action 1 will trump all (and likely always had, regardless of what the price guide might have stated at different times in the past )

 

Actually I choose and continue to choose the Tec 27.

 

I watched lois and clark and a large part of smallville. I read all the bat titles, all the spidey titles and all the superman titles, but sups just never got to me the way Bats did and does.

 

The problem with Tec 27 over taking Sction 1 is teh historic aspect of it. Action 1 will always be teh 1st blah blah but that doesn't mean it will always be the most valuable book.

 

Look at Detective 1 it is a long forgotten book yet it is the 1st of many things.

 

As for Marvel 1, unless the do a killer Submariner movie I see it to continue the down turn much like the More fun Spectre's adventure Sandman's and other similar golden age keys. It would be interesting to see what would happen to Whiz 1 if Captain Marvel became a Hollywood success.

 

That being said I guess I break Rick mold as I have no real desire for an action 1. I do want a cap 1 back in my collection and am just waiting for the right copy and time. I think it is a book that most everyone is holding onto right now even though it is thought of as common....

 

James G

[Wayne-Tec]

The question we have to ask ourselves is...

 

How important will historical significance be to the next generation of collectors?

 

Batman has dominated Superman across virtually all platforms. But the discussion doesn't just end with superior comic sales, video game sales and motion picture grossing. It's the impact all of the above has on fans.

 

When the last two films alone have grossed over a billion dollars a piece, you're reaching a very, very wide audience. Gaming is one of the most interactive entertainment outlets there is, and the Arkham series has been a major success.

 

Fans are not just catching a good flick, they're building memories the same way Superman fans did in the 60's and 70's, only now, there are many more forms of entertainment available, strengthening the ability to enjoy the character through a plethora of creative outlets.

 

The same can not be said for Superman. What's worse is that many fans who love comics, who love superheroes...don't even like Superman. It's one thing for a character not to be your favorite, it's another to be looked down upon as an obsolete, lame, archetype. I like the character a lot more than most people my age do...which puts me in the minority.

 

The market has yet to see the post-Burton generation of Batman fans rise to greater spending power. As of today, Tec #27 is already a close second to Action #1, even with most GA collectors having grown up well before Batman became a fraction of what he has become today.

 

When the generation that grew up loving Batman, while disliking or being indifferent to Superman, attains greater spending power...I think it's a reach to assume that they will hold a respect for comic history above their own childhood nostalgia, and love for a character that has surpassed Superman, across platforms, by miles and miles.

[G.A.tor]

Batman owned the 1960s and 1970s too

 

Superman owned the 1940s and 1950s. Yet those 1960s baby boomers still choose action 1 over Tec 27 today. Not by much but a quantitative reality none the less

[Sqeggs]

The question we have to ask ourselves is...

 

How important will historical significance be to the next generation of collectors?

 

Batman has dominated Superman across virtually all platforms. But the discussion doesn't just end with superior comic sales, video game sales and motion picture grossing. It's the impact all of the above has on fans.

 

When the last two films alone have grossed over a billion dollars a piece, you're reaching a very, very wide audience. Gaming is one of the most interactive entertainment outlets there is, and the Arkham series has been a major success.

 

Fans are not just catching a good flick, they're building memories the same way Superman fans did in the 60's and 70's, only now, there are many more forms of entertainment available, strengthening the ability to enjoy the character through a plethora of creative outlets.

 

The same can not be said for Superman. What's worse is that many fans who love comics, who love superheroes...don't even like Superman. It's one thing for a character not to be your favorite, it's another to be looked down upon as an obsolete, lame, archetype. I like the character a lot more than most people my age do...which puts me in the minority.

 

The market has yet to see the post-Burton generation of Batman fans rise to greater spending power. As of today, Tec #27 is already a close second to Action #1, even with most GA collectors having grown up well before Batman became a fraction of what he has become today.

 

When the generation that grew up loving Batman, while disliking or being indifferent to Superman, attains greater spending power...I think it's a reach to assume that they will hold a respect for comic history above their own childhood nostalgia, and love for a character that has surpassed Superman, across platforms, by miles and miles.

 

If they don't have a respect for comic history, it's hard to see why they are bothering with either book. If they do have a respect for comic history, it's hard to argue that Action 1 isn't a much more important book than Detective 27.

[Dark Knight]

the problem with that line of thought is that batman has had the edge in all those areas for what seems like 20+ years (more than enough time to change folks buying habits), and yet Action 1 has beaten tec 27 in all those years (sales wise)

 

and very few of the current generation will appreciate or actively seek out the "golden " age originals (as nearmint stated)...

 

the argument is valid for general appeal, but won't apply to those 2 book sales ...the historical significance of action 1 will trump all (and likely always had, regardless of what the price guide might have stated at different times in the past )

 

Actually I choose and continue to choose the Tec 27.

 

I watched lois and clark and a large part of smallville. I read all the bat titles, all the spidey titles and all the superman titles, but sups just never got to me the way Bats did and does.

 

The problem with Tec 27 over taking Sction 1 is teh historic aspect of it. Action 1 will always be teh 1st blah blah but that doesn't mean it will always be the most valuable book.

 

Look at Detective 1 it is a long forgotten book yet it is the 1st of many things.

 

As for Marvel 1, unless the do a killer Submariner movie I see it to continue the down turn much like the More fun Spectre's adventure Sandman's and other similar golden age keys. It would be interesting to see what would happen to Whiz 1 if Captain Marvel became a Hollywood success.

 

That being said I guess I break Rick mold as I have no real desire for an action 1. I do want a cap 1 back in my collection and am just waiting for the right copy and time. I think it is a book that most everyone is holding onto right now even though it is thought of as common....

 

James G

 

I had a Cap 1 on the sales boards not too long ago. You should've jumped on it

[Wayne-Tec]

Batman owned the 1960s and 1970s too

 

Superman owned the 1940s and 1950s. Yet those 1960s baby boomers still choose action 1 over Tec 27 today. Not by much but a quantitative reality none the less

 

That's a good point Rick, but even accounting for inflation, Batman has been a much, much bigger success since 1989.

[Wayne-Tec]

If they don't have a respect for comic history, it's hard to see why they are bothering with either book. If they do have a respect for comic history, it's hard to argue that Action 1 isn't a much more important book than Detective 27.

 

That's a good point.

 

I don't expect the next generation to have, literally no respect for comic book history. But it is possible for Batman fans, collectors, to want to invest in the earliest incarnation of the character. So it's possible to have love for Tec #27 without loving comics as a whole.

 

But assuming that the next generation, hopefully, has an appreciation for comic book history...I still don't see that out-weighing their love for Batman...especially in comparison to their interest in Superman.

[G.A.tor]

Batman owned the 1960s and 1970s too

 

Superman owned the 1940s and 1950s. Yet those 1960s baby boomers still choose action 1 over Tec 27 today. Not by much but a quantitative reality none the less

 

That's a good point Rick, but even accounting for inflation, Batman has been a much, much bigger success since 1989.

Superman 75 sold 4x more copies than all the batman solo titles in 1993. That said batman had been the more loved character for over 50 years... And will likely continue for the foreseeable future.

[Wayne-Tec]

Batman owned the 1960s and 1970s too

 

Superman owned the 1940s and 1950s. Yet those 1960s baby boomers still choose action 1 over Tec 27 today. Not by much but a quantitative reality none the less

 

That's a good point Rick, but even accounting for inflation, Batman has been a much, much bigger success since 1989.

Superman 75 sold 4x more copies than all the batman solo titles in 1993. That said batman had been the more loved character for over 50 years... And will likely continue for the foreseeable future.

 

Despite my criticism of Superman's portrayals over recent decades, I still love the character. Smallville was one of my favorite TV shows in my high school years. Personally, I think Siegel and Shuster's Superman was fantastic, and would have been even better with a stronger rogues gallery.

 

I enjoyed MOS the first time I saw it, but didn't enjoy it as much the second time around after I bought it on iTunes. It's a lot better than some comic book movies and there are parts that I really enjoyed, but the movie was held down by plot holes and the limitations of the Superman character.

 

I'd love to see Superman rival Batman in popularity because that would mean we'd be privileged to a lot better material. But so far, we've yet to see it with much consistency.

[piper]

I've been reading this thread with much interest. I think the consensus is that amongst comic collectors people prefer the character of Batman over Superman.

 

This doesn't mean Detective 27 will ever be worth more now or likely ever.

 

Why?

 

I think that it's because books like Action 1 transcend the hobby. Investors are going to look at these books much like they look at fine art. If you're going to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on a collectible, aren't you going to pick the book that started it all? The oldest, most important creation in our little hobby?

 

All that aside, if I won the lottery (a wee 10 million or so) tomorrow, the book that I would want to own is MC 1. Of course, I wouldn't look at is As an investment but rather a very cool possession like a fancy sports car.

 

 

 

 

 

[peewee22]

Many of us Baby Boomers grew up knowing Action 1 was THE book. I rarely saw or heard much about Tec 27 being THE book although I knew it existed.

 

I think the stage was set then and it appears to have never changed. It's not what a collector prefers that makes it THE book.

 

Therefore, I say with great pride that Action 1 is still THE book.

 

Tec 27 is a close 2nd though.

[Wayne-Tec]

If you're going to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on a collectible, aren't you going to pick the book that started it all? The oldest, most important creation in our little hobby?

 

If this mentality were true...

 

Marvel #1 would be worth more than Captain America Comics #1.

Fantastic Four #1 would be worth more than Amazing Fantasy #15.

Detective Comics #1 would be worth more than Detective Comics #31.

 

There are countless examples where even today, collectors overwhelmingly care more about the love for the character than for the history.

[jgallo]

Batman owned the 1960s and 1970s too

 

Superman owned the 1940s and 1950s. Yet those 1960s baby boomers still choose action 1 over Tec 27 today. Not by much but a quantitative reality none the less

 

But what happens when all the kids of the baby boomers grow up. I believe that generation x or y or whatever it's called is larger, hence if this generation prefers Batman it might happen.

 

I think it would be a fair comparison if it was Action 1 and Detective 1 (with batman in it), the fact that the tec book isn't a 1 hurts it some IMO.

 

 

Again going only on historical significance only means so much. Marvel 1 is the first Marvel book yet it's going down in value. It started what is perhaps the bigger of the 2 companies now, at least the more relevant in today's market company.

 

I think history only going so far and market demand can certainly wipe it out. There are plenty of cases where history means less and although they aren't golden age take hulk 180 vs 181 or Amazing spider man 298 and 300. 180 is the more important book from a history stand point but the market has said 181 is worth multiple times 180, same with the spidey books.

 

When I ague with people about Superman 1 I get the history stuff too, but that only gets you so far and as we see Batman 1 come up the ranks history may fade and demand may overtake it.

 

 

James G

[Wayne-Tec]

But what happens when all the kids of the baby boomers grow up. I believe that generation x or y or whatever it's called is larger, hence if this generation prefers Batman it might happen.

 

I think it would be a fair comparison if it was Action 1 and Detective 1 (with batman in it), the fact that the tec book isn't a 1 hurts it some IMO.

 

 

Again going only on historical significance only means so much. Marvel 1 is the first Marvel book yet it's going down in value. It started what is perhaps the bigger of the 2 companies now, at least the more relevant in today's market company.

 

I think history only going so far and market demand can certainly wipe it out. There are plenty of cases where history means less and although they aren't golden age take hulk 180 vs 181 or Amazing spider man 298 and 300. 180 is the more important book from a history stand point but the market has said 181 is worth multiple times 180, same with the spidey books.

 

When I ague with people about Superman 1 I get the history stuff too, but that only gets you so far and as we see Batman 1 come up the ranks history may fade and demand may overtake it.

 

 

James G

 

I agree with where you're coming from James.

 

But the fact of the matter is that as of today, most of the collectors investing in these big-dollar books are collectors who grew up before Batman peaked in popularity. As popular as he was during the 1960's with the TV show, and when he returned to his comic roots in the 1970's, it's nothing compared to multiple films grossing over a billion dollars. The character's remarkable popularity in this era, through so many different forms of media and entertainment is very significant.

 

Superman #1 is another great book and the importance of it being the first solo superhero title should not be overlooked. But the content of Superman #1, the small percentage that is original to that issue at least, isn't being used as source material by Oscar winning actors the way Joker's first app. was used by Christopher Nolan for Heath Ledger's character.

 

And as technology progresses and information is more readily available than it was in decades past, the next generation of collectors are going to know about these things. It sounds good on paper to say that the older, more historically significant book is going to remain in the top spot. But that argument doesn't seem as strong as the latter theory.

[rob_react]

As an aside, Superman #1 vs. Batman #1 is a really weird case as Batman #1 is, without question the more important of the 2 books. You could argue that with the 1st Catwoman and 1st Joker it's the 4th most important book in the golden age. Superman #1 is the 1st character in his own title. Which excites no one.

 

That said, Superman #1 is sadistically tough in high grade and Batman #1 is common for a golden age key, so the values are pretty much always going to diverge from where they naturally should be.

[Wayne-Tec]

As an aside, Superman #1 vs. Batman #1 is a really weird case as Batman #1 is, without question the more important of the 2 books. You could argue that with the 1st Catwoman and 1st Joker it's the 4th most important book in the golden age. Superman #1 is the 1st character in his own title. Which excites no one.

 

That said, Superman #1 is sadistically tough in high grade and Batman #1 is common for a golden age key, so the values are pretty much always going to diverge from where they naturally should be.

 

This is true, but that scarcity gap is also present between Marvel #1 and Cap #1.

 

Changes often take time, but we have seen loved characters win-out in ways many couldn't have imagined years ago.

 

Times are changing.

[Ameri]

Batman owned the 1960s and 1970s too

 

Superman owned the 1940s and 1950s. Yet those 1960s baby boomers still choose action 1 over Tec 27 today. Not by much but a quantitative reality none the less

 

But what happens when all the kids of the baby boomers grow up. I believe that generation x or y or whatever it's called is larger, hence if this generation prefers Batman it might happen.

 

I think it would be a fair comparison if it was Action 1 and Detective 1 (with batman in it), the fact that the tec book isn't a 1 hurts it some IMO.

 

 

Again going only on historical significance only means so much. Marvel 1 is the first Marvel book yet it's going down in value. It started what is perhaps the bigger of the 2 companies now, at least the more relevant in today's market company.

 

I think history only going so far and market demand can certainly wipe it out. There are plenty of cases where history means less and although they aren't golden age take hulk 180 vs 181 or Amazing spider man 298 and 300. 180 is the more important book from a history stand point but the market has said 181 is worth multiple times 180, same with the spidey books.

 

When I ague with people about Superman 1 I get the history stuff too, but that only gets you so far and as we see Batman 1 come up the ranks history may fade and demand may overtake it.

 

 

James G

 

That's a good analogy as any. Given the fact that Marvel 1, the flagship issue of the most successful comics publisher of all time, has slipped lower in value, Tec 27 may never rise to #1 book either (although Batman as a character may be more successsful than Superman).

[rob_react]

As an aside, Superman #1 vs. Batman #1 is a really weird case as Batman #1 is, without question the more important of the 2 books. You could argue that with the 1st Catwoman and 1st Joker it's the 4th most important book in the golden age. Superman #1 is the 1st character in his own title. Which excites no one.

 

That said, Superman #1 is sadistically tough in high grade and Batman #1 is common for a golden age key, so the values are pretty much always going to diverge from where they naturally should be.

 

This is true, but that scarcity gap is also present between Marvel #1 and Cap #1.

 

Changes often take time, but we have seen loved characters win-out in ways many couldn't have imagined years ago.

 

Times are changing.

 

But that's not really true in high grade. There are several high grade copies of Marvel Comics #1. There are more Captain America Comics #1 in high grade, but the numbers aren't that far off since Marvel #1 is in a lot of pedigree collections.

 

With Superman #1, there's the Church copy at 8.0 and an article of faith that the Dentist owns a nicer one and then there's nothing. With Batman #1 we've got 10 copies in the census above 8.0.

 

As an aside, the Allentown Captain America Comics #1 is now a 9.8.